Carter making progress in ME visit?

m1ldslide1

Platinum Member
Feb 20, 2006
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After reading this, I've decided that the right-wingers are correct. This guy is a washed-up hack who should stop undermining the foreign policies of the administration and helping the terrorists win. It's plainly obvious that any dialog with Hamas or other terrorist organizations will never lead to any positive progress in the region.
/sarcasm

OK but seriously, I know that people will be like "you can't say it's positive because it's all just talk" and "there are conditions stipulated that likely won't be satisfied and therefore Israel should start bombing again". So I'll save you guys the trouble - yes there are conditions that probably won't be agreed upon, but to hear Hamas say that they're willing to recognize Israel as a state and support the elected Palestinian government is unprecedented, right?

OK, now let's hear why Carter is helping the terrorists win. Go!


http://ap.google.com/article/A...N-Rs6CzXo01uAD9069BLO2

Carter: Hamas is willing to accept Israel as its neighbor
By KARIN LAUB ? 4 hours ago

JERUSALEM (AP) ? Former President Carter said Monday that Hamas ? the Islamic militant group that has called for the destruction of Israel ? is prepared to accept the right of the Jewish state to "live as a neighbor next door in peace."

But Carter warned that there would not be peace if Israel and the U.S. continue to shut out Hamas and its main backer, Syria.

The Democratic former president relayed the message in a speech in Jerusalem after meeting last week with top Hamas leaders in Syria. It capped a nine-day visit to the Mideast aimed at breaking the deadlock between Israel and Hamas militants who rule the Gaza Strip.

"They (Hamas) said that they would accept a Palestinian state on the 1967 borders, if approved by Palestinians and that they would accept the right of Israel to live as a neighbor next door in peace," Carter said.

The borders he referred to were the frontiers that existed before Israel captured large swaths of Arab lands in the 1967 Mideast war ? including the West Bank, east Jerusalem and Gaza.

In the past, Hamas officials have said they would establish a "peace in stages" if Israel were to withdraw to the borders it held before 1967. But it has been evasive about how it sees the final borders of a Palestinian state and has not abandoned its official call for Israel's destruction.

Israel, which evacuated Gaza in 2005, has accepted the idea of a Palestinian state there and in much of the West Bank. But it has resisted Palestinian demands that it return to its 1967 frontiers.

Carter urged Israel to engage in direct negotiations with Hamas, saying failure to do so was hampering peace efforts.

"We do not believe that peace is likely and certainly that peace is not sustainable unless a way is found to bring Hamas into the discussions in some way," he said. "The present strategy of excluding Hamas and excluding Syria is just not working."

Israel considers Hamas to be a terrorist group and has shunned Carter because of his meetings with Hamas' supreme chief, Khaled Mashaal, and other Hamas figures. Hamas has been behind dozens of suicide bombings and other attacks that have killed some 250 Israelis.

Syria harbors Hamas' exiled leadership in its capital, Damascus, and supports the Lebanese Hezbollah guerrillas who warred with Israel in the summer of 2006. The U.S. considers both Hamas and Hezbollah terrorist organizations.

Carter said Hamas promised it wouldn't undermine Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' efforts to reach a peace deal with Israel, as long as the Palestinian people approved it in a referendum. In such a scenario, he said Hamas would not oppose a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza.

Carter said Hamas officials, including Mashaal, agreed to this in a written statement.

"Let me read exactly what they accepted verbatim. This is their language: 'If President Abbas succeeds in negotiating a final status agreement with Israel, Hamas will accept the decision made by the Palestinian people and their will in a referendum monitored by international observers ... even if Hamas is opposed to the agreement,'" Carter said.

But Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri in Gaza said Hamas' readiness to put a peace deal to a referendum "does not mean that Hamas is going to accept the result of the referendum."

Such a referendum, he said, would have to be voted on by Palestinians living all over the world. They number about 9.3 million, including some 4 million living in the West Bank, Gaza and east Jerusalem.

The only Israeli officials to meet with Carter during the former president's latest Mideast mission were Israeli President Shimon Peres and Eli Yishai, one of several deputy prime ministers. Peres scolded Carter for meeting with Hamas but Yishai, of the ultra-Orthodox Shas Party, said he was willing to meet with Hamas leaders to discuss a prisoner exchange.

Israel says Carter's talks embolden Palestinian extremists and hurt Palestinian moderates as they try to make peace with the Jewish state. Abbas, who rules only the West Bank, is in a bitter rivalry with Hamas.

"The problem is not that I met with Hamas in Syria," Carter said Monday. "The problem is that Israel and the United States refuse to meet with someone who must be involved."

Carter said Israeli-Palestinian peacemaking has "regressed" since a U.S.-hosted Mideast conference in Annapolis, Md., in November. He faulted Israel for continuing to build on disputed land the Palestinians want for a future state and for its network of roadblocks that severely hamper Palestinians traveling in the West Bank.

"The prison around Gaza has been tightened," he said, referring to Israel's blockade of the territory since the Hamas takeover.

Israel has been negotiating directly with Abbas, who heads a moderate government based in the West Bank. Abbas lost control of the Gaza Strip last June, when Hamas violently seized control of that territory.

Carter said Hamas has promised to let a captured Israeli soldier send a letter to his parents.

Direct communication between Israel and Hamas could facilitate the release of Cpl. Gilad Schalit, who has been held in Gaza for nearly two years.

Israel agrees in principle to release 1,000 Palestinian prisoners in exchange for Schalit, but after back-and-forth talks through Egyptian intermediaries, has approved only 71 of the specific prisoners that Hamas wants freed, he said.

However, Carter said Hamas rejected his specific proposal for a monthlong unilateral cease-fire.
 

Brigandier

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2008
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The only way to make progress in the ME is to install democratic regimes against the will of the people. They do not know what is good for them, we do.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
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Lets see if Hamas walks the walk. Telling some washed up bean bag one thing. Doing it is another.

btw I believe Hamas did say a couple of years ago they recognize Israel as a state. They just dont believe they have a right to exist.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
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This seems to be the kind of diplomacy that Obama preaches and I am behind it. Contemporary America has no clue about foreign relations and we see where that's gotten us.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: Genx87
Lets see if Hamas walks the walk. Telling some washed up bean bag one thing. Doing it is another.

btw I believe Hamas did say a couple of years ago they recognize Israel as a state. They just dont believe they have a right to exist.

Carter's got a Nobel Peace Prize, and he's still working at it on an international level. That's far more than any Bushwhacko has been able to manage in seven years.

Unless you've contributed anything to the effort, if anyone's a washed up bean bag, it would be you. :roll:
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
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The members of Hamas don't even have jobs. If they recognize Israel they will be jobless.
What are they going to do for a living?

I have no idea if they have jobs or not, I can only assume that is their full-time job.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Well damn damn damn and triple damn. I just posted a similar thread and it looks like M1ldslide1 has beat me to the punch by a whole four minutes.

I have a different take on the matter, but there seems to be no common ground between the two sides. Its a no brainer, with no common ground, no peace is possible.
The groundhog has emerged, has seen no shadow of a doubt, and predicts nothing but at least 60 more years of war and conflict.

And like Solomon's baby, if neither side will share, both may end up with nothing.
 

Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: Brigandier
The only way to make progress in the ME is to install democratic regimes against the will of the people. They do not know what is good for them, we do.

You forgot to sign that '--GWB&Co.' :laugh:
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
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Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: Genx87
Lets see if Hamas walks the walk. Telling some washed up bean bag one thing. Doing it is another.

btw I believe Hamas did say a couple of years ago they recognize Israel as a state. They just dont believe they have a right to exist.

Carter's got a Nobel Peace Prize, and he's still working at it on an international level. That's far more than any Bushwhacko has been able to manage in seven years.

Unless you've contributed anything to the effort, if anyone's a washed up bean bag, it would be you. :roll:

Whoopie do

Al Gore has an effing Nobel Prize for making an error prone movie. Now if you have reason to believe this will actually lead to anything let us know.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: Genx87

Al Gore has an effing Nobel Prize for making an error prone movie. Now if you have reason to believe this will actually lead to anything let us know.

Al Gore has an effing Nobel Prize for making a movie that raised the issues of pollution and global warming to a much higher level of public awareness. That, alone, is enough to make him a hero, not just in the U.S., but globally.

No matter what you * think * you know, unless you're a climatologist or meteorologist qualified to criticize the truth behind his message, and unless you've contributed anything to that effort to stop global warming, if anyone's a washed up bean bag, it would still be you. :p
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
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And for Carter's next trick, he will be meeting with OBL to discuss reperations with the US. He isnt really a terrorist, he's just misunderstood.

Fuck Carter.
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,018
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Why do we get involved in Israeli/Palestinian issues?

I just do not understand why Israel, other than providing what I'm sure is boatloads of intelligence we don't have in the ME, is that important to us???

The last I checked, Israel as it stands doesn't have "Jew Land Only" inscribed in it by God (whichever one you believe in)...just WhoTF do they think they are telling people that were there before them just where they can go and what they can do?

This is the problem with religion...it makes people do wacko things...

Chuck
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
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Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: Genx87

Al Gore has an effing Nobel Prize for making an error prone movie. Now if you have reason to believe this will actually lead to anything let us know.

Al Gore has an effing Nobel Prize for making a movie that raised the issues of pollution and global warming to a much higher level of public awareness. That, alone, is enough to make him a hero, not just in the U.S., but globally.

No matter what you * think * you know, unless you're a climatologist or meteorologist qualified to criticize the truth behind his message, and unless you've contributed anything to that effort to stop global warming, if anyone's a washed up bean bag, it would still be you. :p

I love your take on spreading lies to raise awareness. His movie was garbage and debunked. But as long as the ends justify the means it is a ok with you right?

Now back on topic.
 

m1ldslide1

Platinum Member
Feb 20, 2006
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Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Nowhere in the article does it say that Hamas is willing to recognize Israel as a state.

JERUSALEM (AP) ? Former President Carter said Monday that Hamas ? the Islamic militant group that has called for the destruction of Israel ? is prepared to accept the right of the Jewish state to "live as a neighbor next door in peace."

The first sentence? I thought the thesis was pretty well developed throughout. Usually you're vague at length, but this time you're succinctly vague. :confused:
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
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Originally posted by: m1ldslide1
...

"They (Hamas) said that they would accept a Palestinian state on the 1967 borders, if approved by Palestinians and that they would accept the right of Israel to live as a neighbor next door in peace,"

...

But Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri in Gaza said Hamas' readiness to put a peace deal to a referendum "does not mean that Hamas is going to accept the result of the referendum."

...

Such a referendum, he said, would have to be voted on by Palestinians living all over the world. They number about 9.3 million, including some 4 million living in the West Bank, Gaza and east Jerusalem.
....

Hamas rejected his specific proposal for a monthlong unilateral cease-fire.

Bolded areas allow Hamas to continue without any responsibilty.

Some many conditions are being placed and then their spokemans states that we reserve the right to ignore the results.

 
Sep 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: m1ldslide1
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Nowhere in the article does it say that Hamas is willing to recognize Israel as a state.

JERUSALEM (AP) ? Former President Carter said Monday that Hamas ? the Islamic militant group that has called for the destruction of Israel ? is prepared to accept the right of the Jewish state to "live as a neighbor next door in peace."

The first sentence? I thought the thesis was pretty well developed throughout. Usually you're vague at length, but this time you're succinctly vague. :confused:
Hamas saying "accept the right of the Jewish state to "live as a neighbor next door in peace." is not the same as recognizing Israel as a state.
 

m1ldslide1

Platinum Member
Feb 20, 2006
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Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Originally posted by: m1ldslide1
...

"They (Hamas) said that they would accept a Palestinian state on the 1967 borders, if approved by Palestinians and that they would accept the right of Israel to live as a neighbor next door in peace,"

...

But Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri in Gaza said Hamas' readiness to put a peace deal to a referendum "does not mean that Hamas is going to accept the result of the referendum."

...

Such a referendum, he said, would have to be voted on by Palestinians living all over the world. They number about 9.3 million, including some 4 million living in the West Bank, Gaza and east Jerusalem.
....

Hamas rejected his specific proposal for a monthlong unilateral cease-fire.

Bolded areas allow Hamas to continue without any responsibilty.

Some many conditions are being placed and then their spokemans states that we reserve the right to ignore the results.

Agreed 100%. But since when does a negotiation end after the first conversation? I'm all for having the palestinians vote on a referendum, but not necessarily from all over the world (logistics would kill it). Give the voice to the people - generally they're going to want peace and be willing to make some concessions to receive some.

Same for the statement that Hamas doesn't have to honor the results. Then again, how functional will they be if the popular sentiment is in favor of diplomatic resolution? Isn't a populist movement like Hamas dependent on.. well.. the populace?

And of course they wouldn't agree to a cease-fire. After all, they're talking to Jimmy Carter, not Olmert.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: m1ldslide1

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Nowhere in the article does it say that Hamas is willing to recognize Israel as a state.

JERUSALEM (AP) ? Former President Carter said Monday that Hamas ? the Islamic militant group that has called for the destruction of Israel ? is prepared to accept the right of the Jewish state to "live as a neighbor next door in peace."

The first sentence? I thought the thesis was pretty well developed throughout. Usually you're vague at length, but this time you're succinctly vague. :confused:

TLC didn't listen when his mother warned him that, if he didn't stop it, he'd go blind. :laugh:

Originally posted by: Genx87

I love your take on spreading lies to raise awareness. His movie was garbage and debunked. But as long as the ends justify the means it is a ok with you right?

Now back on topic.

:lips: my (_!_)

Unless you can show us ANYTHING you've done in your entire life to make even a small dent in the problems they're working to solve, Carter and Gore have each done more to help the planet on any one day than you'll probably ever do in your entire life.

Originally posted by: blackangst1

And for Carter's next trick, he will be meeting with OBL to discuss reperations with the US. He isnt really a terrorist, he's just misunderstood.

Fuck Carter.

The good news is, unlike you, he doesn't pimp for your Traitor In Chief to promote treason, murder and torture so, instead of spewing your kind of venom, he'd probably just tell you you're sadly uninformed. :cool:
 

Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
16,979
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Originally posted by: blackangst1
And for Carter's next trick, he will be meeting with OBL to discuss reperations with the US. He isnt really a terrorist, he's just misunderstood.

Fuck Carter.

If you're going to F Carter's diplomatic efforts you should probably go ahead and post your solution to the issue.
 

StormRider

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2000
8,324
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I have always thought it was better to at least talk to your "enemies". I believe that "war should always be the last option" but if we are unwilling to "talk" to the enemy then how can we say that war was the last resort?

The world right now is in a sh1tty mess right now so I want to try something different from our past policies. That's why I'll be voting for Obama this fall as I hope he will represent a fresh new start for our country.

Talking with our enemies doesn't mean that we have to be naive though. One thing that has always concern me is this "We are willing to have peace for 10 years". What the heck does this mean? 10 years for them to rest and regain strength so they can attack Israel later? Why not let's have everlasting peace until someone breaks the deal and declares war on us?
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,018
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The problem with "talking" to your enemies is that you will ending up getting played by your enemies as a sucker if you don't long term and actively keep your eye on the ball. And, even then, you need to be able to offer a check to any moves they make down the road.

The US's problem is that we're too nice, too complacent, and have short term memory problems.

Obama will 'change' nothing, not for the US's benefit at least...

Chuck
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: chucky2
The problem with "talking" to your enemies is that you will ending up getting played by your enemies as a sucker if you don't long term and actively keep your eye on the ball. And, even then, you need to be able to offer a check to any moves they make down the road.

The problem with NOT talking to them is, you foreclose any chance of dealing issues that just MAY be resolved by discussion. Words aren't as dealy as bombs so the choice of which to use, first, is pretty obvious.

The US's problem is that we're too nice, too complacent, and have short term memory problems.

Your Traitor In Chief is anything BUT nice, but you're right that he has short term memory problems, along with his long term deficiencies.
 
Sep 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: m1ldslide1

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Nowhere in the article does it say that Hamas is willing to recognize Israel as a state.

JERUSALEM (AP) ? Former President Carter said Monday that Hamas ? the Islamic militant group that has called for the destruction of Israel ? is prepared to accept the right of the Jewish state to "live as a neighbor next door in peace."

The first sentence? I thought the thesis was pretty well developed throughout. Usually you're vague at length, but this time you're succinctly vague. :confused:

TLC didn't listen when his mother warned him that, if he didn't stop it, he'd go blind. :laugh:
Good job, Harvey. Per your usual you didn't prove anything except that you're a tool.

Congrats on keeping that streak alive. :thumbsup:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...hnzb6ry7syzxlKAfms0NUE

DAMASCUS, Syria - The leader of Hamas says his Palestinian militant group is offering Israel a 10-year truce if it withdraws from all lands it seized in the 1967 war.

Khaled Mashaal says he made the offer to former President Carter in talks on Saturday.

Mashaal says Hamas would accept a Palestinian state limited to the lands Israel seized in 1967 ? an implicit acceptance that Israel would exist alongside that state.

But Mashaal says the group would never outright formally recognize Israel.

Note that Hamas saying 'We'll let those Jews live in peace if we get what we're asking for.' is not the same as recognizing Israel as a state. In fact, Hamas has explicitly DENIED saying they would recognize Israel. But why let facts get in the way of you acting like a complete and utter jerk in here? Never stopped you before.