Carmack Speaks About The NV30 vs R300 In Doom3

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
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Excellent comments as usual. He still gives nVidia the nod for drivers though he also says ATi are much better. It also looks like the two cards are going to be roughly equal in Doom3's performance.

I think the fan situation is going to be a real problem for nVidia.

Link.
 

Novgrod

Golden Member
Mar 3, 2001
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wow freaky; i figured for sure that the r300 would kill the nv30; after all, the nv30 has been 'finished' for months.

seems as though promises of nvidia's demise are premature.

edit: i'm dumb; i confused r300 with r350 :)
 

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
29,767
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LOL:


The current NV30 cards do have some other disadvantages: They take up two
slots, and when the cooling fan fires up they are VERY LOUD. I'm not usually
one to care about fan noise, but the NV30 does annoy me.
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
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I wouldn't be at all surprised if he's already got his hands on a sample R350 for testing purposes. I can't wait to see how much faster the card will be over the R300.
 

LeeTJ

Diamond Member
Jan 21, 2003
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Originally posted by: Novgrod
wow freaky; i figured for sure that the r300 would kill the nv30; after all, the nv30 has been 'finished' for months.

seems as though promises of nvidia's demise are premature.

You do realize of course that the R300 = Ati 9700 and the NV30 = Geforce FX right??

 

CurtCold

Golden Member
Aug 15, 2002
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"I am using an NV30 in my primary work system now, largely so I can test more
of the rendering paths on one system"

Ohhhhhh if Carmack is using it then I must have one.....ohhhh it has to be the best...LOL

:) :):) :)
 

chizow

Diamond Member
Jun 26, 2001
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Why's he using a pre-release card with beta drivers over a 6-month old card with mature drivers while citing driver stability??? :confused:

Chiz
 

EdipisReks

Platinum Member
Sep 30, 2000
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Originally posted by: chizow
Why's he using a pre-release card with beta drivers over a 6-month old card with mature drivers while citing driver stability??? :confused:

maybe that just tells you something about ATI drivers :confused:
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
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alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: chizow
Why's he using a pre-release card with beta drivers over a 6-month old card with mature drivers while citing driver stability??? :confused:

Chiz
'Cause it's the very latest "toy".
rolleye.gif


 

Ketchup

Elite Member
Sep 1, 2002
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I think this says a lot for nVidia drivers. But, let's not forget when the 9500 came out with beta drivers a while back. Didn't we all think it was a piece of crap? (well, maybe not that bad.) But, I think the nVidia card is good, we just need to wait on some better drivers.
 

BD231

Lifer
Feb 26, 2001
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Originally posted by: ketchup79
we just need to wait on some better drivers.

Like the story is any different with any new video card to the market??? :confused:

maybe that just tells you something about ATI drivers

Now your just being an asshat.
 

BentValve

Diamond Member
Dec 26, 2001
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Originally posted by: BFG10K
Excellent comments as usual. He still gives nVidia the nod for drivers though he also says ATi are much better.


I don't want to start a fight here but John Carmack did not say ATI's drivers are much better, please get you story straight.





 

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
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I am using an NV30 in my primary work system now, largely so I can test more
of the rendering paths on one system, and because I feel Nvidia still has
somewhat better driver quality (ATI continues to improve, though).
 

chizow

Diamond Member
Jun 26, 2001
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Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: chizow
Why's he using a pre-release card with beta drivers over a 6-month old card with mature drivers while citing driver stability??? :confused:

Chiz
'Cause it's the very latest "toy".
rolleye.gif

"I am using an NV30 in my primary work system now, largely so I can test more of the rendering paths on one system" - Carmack

Really? To test the latest toy? I took it to mean:

"I am using an NV30 in my primary work system now, largely so I can get some work done without seeing
THIS every 5 minutes!!! -Carmack :D

Chiz :p
 

BentValve

Diamond Member
Dec 26, 2001
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"I am using an NV30 in my primary work system now, largely so I can test more of the rendering paths on one system" - Carmack


How many ATI systems does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
 

BentValve

Diamond Member
Dec 26, 2001
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"I am using an NV30 in my primary work system now, largely so I can test more of the rendering paths on one system" - Carmack

Really? To test the latest toy? I took it to mean:

"I am using an NV30 in my primary work system now, largely so I can get some work done without seeing
THIS every 5 minutes!!! -Carmack :D

Chiz :p[/quote]



Really? I took it to mean that he would like to get some work done. :D
 

bluemax

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2000
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I can not BELIEVE I just read more "ATI drivers" drivel......
I'd say ATI's drivers for the 9700 are more established than nVidia for the NV30 for obvious reasons. We'll talk in a couple months.
 

Ketchup

Elite Member
Sep 1, 2002
14,558
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Originally posted by: BFG10K
Excellent comments as usual. He still gives nVidia the nod for drivers though he also says ATi are much better. It also looks like the two cards are going to be roughly equal in Doom3's performance.

I think the fan situation is going to be a real problem for nVidia.

Link.
I think he just means ATI drivers are much better than they were when they came out.

 

chizow

Diamond Member
Jun 26, 2001
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Originally posted by: bluemax
I can not BELIEVE I just read more "ATI drivers" drivel......
I'd say ATI's drivers for the 9700 are more established than nVidia for the NV30 for obvious reasons. We'll talk in a couple months.

[fanboi.script.on] Yah!!! :| Who is this Carmack fella anyways??? If he hung out here more often he'd know for a FACT ATi drivers are PERFECT ! He must not know anything about drivers or writing code!
rolleye.gif
[/fanboi.script.off]

LoL! :D

Originally posted by: BentValve

Really? I took it to mean that he would like to get some work done. :D

I woulda emphasized the PERIOD . ;)

Chiz
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
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alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: chizow
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: chizow
Why's he using a pre-release card with beta drivers over a 6-month old card with mature drivers while citing driver stability??? :confused:

Chiz
'Cause it's the very latest "toy".
rolleye.gif

"I am using an NV30 in my primary work system now, largely so I can test more of the rendering paths on one system" - Carmack

Really? To test the latest toy? I took it to mean:

"I am using an NV30 in my primary work system now, largely so I can get some work done without seeing
THIS every 5 minutes!!! -Carmack :D

Chiz :p
Actually He is using the FX as a Leafblower. :p That's one way to get "work" done.

And I hope he has noise cancelling headphones - he did say it is:
VERY LOUD. I'm not usually one to care about fan noise, but the NV30 does annoy me

Even though he is ANNOYED by the FX fan's incessant whining (like yours) he does recognize that even though it is a FLOP-XTREME, the NEXT generation of cards from Nvidia will likely be actually COMPETETIVE (again) and he'd better get back to WORK programming. :D
As always, better cards are coming soon.
 

Rand

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
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FWIW, my impression of Carmack's comments on nVidia's drivers relative to ATi:

I feel Nvidia still has somewhat better driver quality (ATI continues to improve, though).

Clearly he views nVidia to have better driver quality, and ATi to be progressing in this respect.... that much isnt in doubt.
My interpretation of his wording is that nVidia's driver support is better though not dramatically so.

Were he to view the differences as dramatic I believe he would have said "much better", "significantly better", "vastly superior" or something of the like.
Similarly, I suspect if he thought nVidia only had a very slight advantage he would have said something like "incrementally better", "slightly better", "mildly better" or any other term denoting a small margin.

ie. He seems to be of the opinion that ATi's drivers are good but nVidia is clearly superior however ATi is quite useable if one believes their hardware to be preferable to use.

On another level, he comments that ATi "continues to improve".
Hence ATi's has clearly been improving for a fair length of time in his opinion. Were ATi just beginning to improve he would have stated they had "started to improve" or"they have made recent strides of late" ... something denoting a recent improvement that had not been evident before.




In any case, I suggest people here allow themselves to form their own opinions based upon their own experiences before factoring in anything else.
Carmack's opinion is certainly of considerable merit, but I would suggest wide spread opinion on this forum to be of equal if not superior merit.
The opinion of oneself formed from one's own experiences is the #1 factor however.

If you have good experiences with Company A's driver support, then those experiences remain good..... regardless of how many other people may like/dislike said companies drivers. Similarly, all the developers in the world can swear on record company A is horrible.... but if your experiences are positive then view company A positively one's OWN experiences are worth more then everyone else's combined.

In short, form your own educated opinion... don't inherit your opinion from someone else.
Take it into account, and learn from it but do not use it as your own opinion.
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
2,998
126
I don't want to start a fight here but John Carmack did not say ATI's drivers are much better, please get you story straight.
That's not what I said at all.

I said that Carmack had given the nod to nVidia, meaning that his preference is with them because he thinks their drivers better. But I also implied that ATi's drivers were much better, as in that they had improved significantly, especially since his last plan update.

Why's he using a pre-release card with beta drivers over a 6-month old card with mature drivers while citing driver stability???
Because contrary to the public reviews nVidia's drivers, even in a beta state, are obviously pretty good.
 

TheWart

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2000
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Being both an ATI and Nvidia user, I must say, ATI drivers were not all that great...but they are as good now, IMO as Nvidia's. However, they are going to have the stigma of bad drivers for a long time to come, so I just figure if people are so prejudiced not to try them b/c of what they hear, whatever.