Carey Holzman Swatted

[WelshBloke]

https://www.newstatesman.com/sci-te...n-and-harassment-tool-and-police-need-take-it

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-derbyshire-46482380

Is this your explanation as to why swatting is ok and we shouldn't do anything about it?

 

[Paladin3]

You are just saying there that you are just going to put up with swatting because you dont want to change anything about the police response. You realise that dont you?

Spotty 14 year olds on the internet are not going to stop being stupid, and its just going to get harder to catch them.

You've made your police force into a weapon and now you don't want to change it for reasons.

What about our police response is the problem? You seem to be suggesting we ignore, or at lease vastly reduce, our response to cries for help because the system is sometimes abused.

Do you think it would save enough lives to justify the lives lost? Or is it just the idea of the cops coming into a home to verify everything is okay after a shooting has been reported that bothers you?

 

[Amused]

Is this your explanation as to why swatting is ok and we shouldn't do anything about it?

No. It shows the response is the same in your area too.

As for swatting, it is a crime. But we cannot change the way we respond to shooting calls because of them. To do so would harm more people.

 

[WelshBloke]

What about our police response is the problem? You seem to be suggesting we ignore, or at lease vastly reduce, our response to cries for help because the system is sometimes abused.

Do you think it would save enough lives to justify the lives lost? Or is it just the idea of the cops coming into a home to verify everything is okay after a shooting has been reported that bothers you?

You make swatting sound so wholesome!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-46206616

 

[WelshBloke]

No. It shows the response is the same in your area too.

Im going to say it isnt because it took you a while to find those two links, we dont actually have swat teams, no one was injured.

As for swatting, it is a crime. But we cannot change the way we respond to shooting calls because of them. To do so would harm more people.

So carry on and hope you're not the innocent man shot by police in his own home next then?

 

[Amused]

Im going to say it isnt because it took you a while to find those two links, we dont actually have swat teams, no one was injured.



So carry on and hope you're not the innocent man shot by police in his own home next then?

I do. I also hope that if I'm a victim of crime, the cops don't hold back because the anonymous caller who called for help was given the same credibility.

The answer to swatting is not to hold the police back from proper responses to shooting calls. The answer is to figure out a way to find and prosecute the pranksters so hard, no one dares to do it.

 

[Paladin3]

Is this your explanation as to why swatting is ok and we shouldn't do anything about it?

Just because we don't agree with your stupid ideas on how to solve swatting, doesn't mean we don't think there is a problem. Of course swatting is a problem. Not sending enough cops to deal with reported gun crimes is a ridiculous solution.

How about the next time someone reports a school shooting we just send a single unit to investigate? After all, it could be a hoax. See how silly that sounds?

 

[zinfamous]

What makes you think he was mad at the cops? Did he call them names and berate them or are you suggesting anything less than bootlicking is non compliance? He was being victimized and he was trying to make that clear. He also thanked them at the end.

I mean, sounds fine and all. Maybe many of us misread? I think that yes: the type of response you get from police can indeed be a real problem--bear in mind though that the type of calls that they get where a swat team would be called are very different from routine domestic calls, and there is a protocol to be followed....and yeah, that is certainly an issue worthy of its own general discussion.

There was a recent, rather nationally publicized case where a Call of Duty swatter was tried and convicted for getting his target killed by the police. Yes, this is indeed serious. The police are generally aware of this, too, and it's a very good thing that no one was hurt because of this. Lucky, really.

If your bro doesn't play games, I wonder what he did to piss someone off--someone at work or elsewhere, maybe, completely unrelated to his online stuff? How could someone have gotten his home address? Is it easy to find through his youtube account/facebook/various other online accounts?

 

[pubquiz]

I would say it is hardly his fault he confused you with the other 2 brand new accounts with similar names (one of whom claimed to be his brother) posting in this thread all taking the same stance.

Who the fuck are all of you anyway?

Am sorry Amused...I didnt realise I had to be a long established member of this forum to make comments...am a mere virgin so maybe don't have the Cudos of some.I joined only 10 days ago to ask a question about an SSD...

.'all taking the same stance'....yes isn't that what an argument/discussion is about?....2 opposing opinions? .btw I don't get accounts mixed up even with similar names despite being so new.

'Who the fuck are all of you anyway?'....my name is Tom...59 years old... have been a member of many forums for 10-15 years plus ...just not this one...we all have to join at sometime ...maybe you got asked 'who the fuck' you were in 2001 when you joined before you were an Elite member, I dont know.

Glad I joined though as I got an answer to my SSD question very quickly and have enjoyed this discussion

 

[WelshBloke]

Just because we don't agree with your stupid ideas on how to solve swatting, doesn't mean we don't think there is a problem. Of course swatting is a problem. Not sending enough cops to deal with reported gun crimes is a ridiculous solution.

So whats your non stupid solution then?

How about the next time someone reports a school shooting we just send a single unit to investigate? After all, it could be a hoax. See how silly that sounds?

Because school shootings are reported by single anonymous phone calls.

 

[Paladin3]

So carry on and hope you're not the innocent man shot by police in his own home next then?

You insist on acting as if wrongful shootings are the norm and not the very, very rare anomaly.

Even back in my Journalism 101 class in college I learned the following: If 50,000 people attend a parade, but two get in a fight and one is stabbed to death, there are still another 49,998 folks who had a great day. It grabs attention when you yell "PARADE OF DEATH!" in a headline, but it doesn't make watching a parade a deadly activity.

You act as though calling the police for help is more likely to get you killed than actual help. This is NOT true. It's a LIE. Please, stop lying.

 

[WelshBloke]

You insist on acting as if wrongful shootings are the norm and not the very, very rare anomaly.

Even back in my Journalism 101 class in college I learned the following: If 50,000 people attend a parade, but two get in a fight and one is stabbed to death, there are still another 49,998 folks who had a great day. It grabs attention when you yell "PARADE OF DEATH!" in a headline, but it doesn't make watching a parade a deadly activity.

You act as though calling the police for help is more likely to get you killed than actual help. This is NOT true. It's a LIE. Please, stop lying.

I think that you need to calm down.

No where have I said that if you call the police they are more likely to kill you.

What I have said is that there is clearly a problem with police responses to anonymous, unverified phone calls. I mean thats self evident. If there wasnt then swatting wouldn't be a thing.

 

[Amused]

Am sorry Amused...I didnt realise I had to be a long established member of this forum to make comments...am a mere virgin so maybe don't have the Cudos of some.I joined only 10 days ago to ask a question about an SSD...

.'all taking the same stance'....yes isn't that what an argument/discussion is about?....2 opposing opinions? .btw I don't get accounts mixed up even with similar names despite being so new.

'Who the fuck are all of you anyway?'....my name is Tom...59 years old... have been a member of many forums for 10-15 years plus ...just not this one...we all have to join at sometime ...maybe you got asked 'who the fuck' you were in 2001 when you joined before you were an Elite member, I dont know.

Glad I joined though as I got an answer to my SSD question very quickly and have enjoyed this discussion

Hi Tom. I'm Kris.

As a 51 year old male speaking to a 59 year old male and both of us have a lot of experience with online forums I want you to look through this thread.

In this thread are 3 very new members. All with very similar names (that's why you were confused with someone else).

Now with your extensive knowledge of online forums, if that happened in a forum you were a long time member of... if three new people all with very similar screen names all jumped into one thread and took the same side... would you be a little suspicious?

BTW, I got a lot of "who the fuck are you" back then. Hell I still do.

 

[WelshBloke]

I do. I also hope that if I'm a victim of crime, the cops don't hold back because the anonymous caller who called for help was given the same credibility.

The answer to swatting is not to hold the police back from proper responses to shooting calls. The answer is to figure out a way to find and prosecute the pranksters so hard, no one dares to do it.

Good luck with that!

Also. From your link about the UK swatting "On each occasion, it was verified there were no concerns for people's safety and measures have now been put in place to authenticate each call made to police."

Maybe don't be so stubborn and insisting that there isn't a better way to do things.

 

[DigDog]

Why is it so ridiculously easy to swat someone? Why doesnt the 911 agent ask the caller to identify themselves when they KNOW the call will result in a swat raid ?? Is the police unaware that swatting exists ?

 

[Amused]

Good luck with that!

Also. From your link about the UK swatting "On each occasion, it was verified there were no concerns for people's safety and measures have now been put in place to authenticate each call made to police."

Maybe don't be so stubborn and insisting that there isn't a better way to do things.

Thank you.

Cool. And yet the first story was from 2016 and the second from just last week.

It seems to me they're having just as much a problem with figuring out how to handle it as we are... and in the meantime are showing up to ALL shooting calls the same. Because to do anything else would be negligent and potentially fatal to cops, or civilians.

 

[pubquiz]

I mean, sounds fine and all. Maybe many of us misread? I think that yes: the type of response you get from police can indeed be a real problem--bear in mind though that the type of calls that they get where a swat team would be called are very different from routine domestic calls, and there is a protocol to be followed....and yeah, that is certainly an issue worthy of its own general discussion.

There was a recent, rather nationally publicized case where a Call of Duty swatter was tried and convicted for getting his target killed by the police. Yes, this is indeed serious. The police are generally aware of this, too, and it's a very good thing that no one was hurt because of this. Lucky, really.

If your bro doesn't play games, I wonder what he did to piss someone off--someone at work or elsewhere, maybe, completely unrelated to his online stuff? How could someone have gotten his home address? Is it easy to find through his youtube account/facebook/various other online accounts?

Hi zinfamous....yes while he was making the live stream his twitter account was hacked....he was alerted to this by the online viewers in the chatroom at the time and went to change his pass word which he did....5 minutes later he was hacked again and his address broadcast on twitter....this surprised him as he had just changed the password....he was about to sort it .....when about 5 minutes later the police arrived.....hence him linking the hoax call with the hack.

I watch quite a few of his live streams as they are very informative for PC building...he was phoned by a scammer live during one a month or 2 ago and then went on to scam the scammer live.

It wouldnt surprise me if it was one of those scammers in India that was involved but I dont know.

If you play the last half hour of the long 2 hour live stream vid on you tube you will so how it progressed.

 

[Amused]

Why is it so ridiculously easy to swat someone? Why doesnt the 911 agent ask the caller to identify themselves when they KNOW the call will result in a swat raid ?? Is the police unaware that swatting exists ?

Because for four generations now, the police have been actively promoting anonymous tips to combat fear of reporting crimes.

They are aware, but they cannot read minds.

The answers are easy when you're not involved. Less easy when you actually have to deal with it.

 

[WelshBloke]

Thank you.

Cool. And yet the first story was from 2016 and the second from just last week.

It seems to me they're having just as much a problem with figuring out how to handle it as we are... and in the meantime are showing up to ALL shooting calls the same. Because to do anything else would be negligent and potentially fatal to cops, or civilians.

Well one of the solutions seems to be verifying the phone call, which seems obvious. Im not sure why you are dead set against this.
Sending a swat team into a residential building for no valid reason isn't negligent to civilians?

 

[WelshBloke]

Because for four generations now, the police have been actively promoting anonymous tips to combat fear of reporting crimes.

People are afraid of phoning 911 to report a gunshot without doing it anonymously?

They are aware, but they cannot read minds.

Which is why they should weigh up the reports, verify the situation and respond accordingly.

The answers are easy when you're not involved. Less easy when you actually have to deal with it.

So we stop looking for solutions because its easier to shoot people?

 

[Amused]

Well one of the solutions seems to be verifying the phone call, which seems obvious. Im not sure why you are dead set against this.
Sending a swat team into a residential building for no valid reason isn't negligent to civilians?

Because

1. That negates the anonymous tip program that has helped overcome fear of reporting crimes
2. Taking time to validate the call could cost lives.
3. A call that a shooting taking place is a perfectly valid reason to send a properly measured response to an active shooter situation.

You are conflating proper police responses to calls with cops who acted inappropriately and shot innocent civilians. You realize those two thing are mutually exclusive right? You can have the first without that second.

 

[Amused]

People are afraid of phoning 911 to report a gunshot without doing it anonymously?



Which is why they should weigh up the reports, verify the situation and respond accordingly.



So we stop looking for solutions because its easier to shoot people?

Some are, yes. Both our countries have anonymous tip lines for just that reason. My country for going on 50 years now.

Again, a proper response and shooting innocent people are mutually exclusive. You can have the first without the second.

 

[pubquiz]

Hi Tom. I'm Kris.

As a 51 year old male speaking to a 59 year old male and both of us have a lot of experience with online forums I want you to look through this thread.

In this thread are 3 very new members. All with very similar names (that's why you were confused with someone else).

Now with your extensive knowledge of online forums, if that happened in a forum you were a long time member of... if three new people all with very similar screen names all jumped into one thread and took the same side... would you be a little suspicious?

BTW, I got a lot of "who the fuck are you" back then. Hell I still do.

Hi Kris

Point taken....just glad I joined (only just) before this thread and not because of it ....curious who the 3 new people are though?....can only see me and pburk (the brother of the guy who got the visit) who joined in 2019 all other posters are pretty much long established.

 

[WelshBloke]

Some are, yes. Both our countries have anonymous tip lines for just that reason. My country for going on 50 years now.

Again, a proper response and shooting innocent people are mutually exclusive. You can have the first without the second.

So youve done a lot of talking and saying why nothing can be changed so I guess that you are happy with this situation?

 

[Amused]

Hi Kris

Point taken....just glad I joined (only just) before this thread and not because of it ....curious who the 3 new people are though?....can only see me and pburk (the brother of the guy who got the visit) who joined in 2019 all other posters are pretty much long established.

Maybe I'm confused and got 3 from 2. I am 51 after all.

Run away while you still can! Look what these forums have done to me!