Carey Holzman Swatted

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realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Yes, some people here do, including one who is not from the US and justifiably doesn't see the world the same. Yet most of the people here understand THIS tactic, while still being able to differentiate between unjust shootings, and proper response to a shooting call.

If police are following the shoot first ask questions later, then how are those shootings unjust?

Meanwhile, on your point about how the police should respond to anonymous claims... they are not mind readers. And the minute they do not respond seriously to an anonymous tip (something police depts have been promoting for 4 generations now, BTW) and it turns out to be serious and lives were lost because of their slow response they will be accused of negligence.

Why are you framing this as an all or nothing response? I did not say the police should not respond when the call is anonymous. Did you mistake me for someone else?
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,511
16,225
146
If there was an unverified voip call made through a VPN and the caller didnt identify themselves plus there was no evidence on site that anything was going on I'm pretty certain they wouldn't be storming the house wearing body armour and carrying rifles.

I would guess in that situation a car with a couple of policemen in would turn up and scope the place out.

Now wait, you are misrepresenting this entire incident.

They did not "storm the house." They came in force, wearing appropriate gear for a shooting call and asked them to come out.

You're not being very logical now.
 
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WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
31,408
9,299
136
Now wait, you are misrepresenting this entire incident.

They did not "storm the house." They came in force, wearing appropriate gear for a shooting call and asked them to come out.

You're not being very logical now.
I was answering a question about what I'd expect to happen here in a similar situation. I not misrepresenting anything.

And maybe tone down the digs eh?
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,511
16,225
146
Thats a bit different in that (iirc) the guy claimed that he had a gun after contact with the police.

And here in the US (and even in the UK I see) we have been promoting anonymous tipping as a way to fight the fear of reporting crime.

Meanwhile, if a shooting in progress is reported, you treat it as real until proved otherwise.
 

Paladin3

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2004
4,933
877
126
Thats a bit different in that (iirc) the guy claimed that he had a gun after contact with the police.
And in the case we are discussing the people they made contact with at the house did NOT claim to have a gun. So the cops DIDN'T storm the house. They cleared and checked the home to confirm nobody was hurt and left. But they were ready to deal with the situation if it had been necessary.

WHAT'S THE PROBLEM???
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
31,408
9,299
136
And here in the US (and even in the UK I see) we have been promoting anonymous tipping as a way to fight the fear of reporting crime.

Who legitimately phones the police using every way to hide their identity in a situation like this?


Meanwhile, if a shooting in progress is reported, you treat it as real until proved otherwise.

And this is why swatting is a thing. Its not going to just stop.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,511
16,225
146
I was answering a question about what I'd expect to happen here in a similar situation. I not misrepresenting anything.

And maybe tone down the digs eh?

Look, you've used the term "guns blazing" and "storm the house" when discussing this and neither of those things happened. It's a complete misrepresentation of the event.

And guess what? I'll bet the helicopter wasn't even police. The news stations probably got the call from the scanner and sent their chopper over. The news choppers always get to the scene before police birds do here in LA.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
31,408
9,299
136
And in the case we are discussing the people they made contact with at the house did NOT claim to have a gun. So the cops DIDN'T storm the house. They cleared and checked the home to confirm nobody was hurt and left. But they were ready to deal with the situation if it had been necessary.

WHAT'S THE PROBLEM???
It was ridiculous.

The police man clearly knew that nothing was happening hence the 6 minutes of bickering about what if there was someone bleeding out in there.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,511
16,225
146
Who legitimately phones the police using every way to hide their identity in a situation like this?

Ask the police. They have obviously been actively promoting anonymous tipping for four generations because it works quite well.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,952
8,002
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It's illegal to swat. So what more should be done? Now that this has been identified as swatting, the police will go back and try to identify the swatter. What would you have liked the police to do differently in this situation? You're really being closed minded here.

Same police reform #BLM would have of them. To ensure these encounters are not automatically dangerous.
 
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WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
31,408
9,299
136
Look, you've used the term "guns blazing" and "storm the house" when discussing this and neither of those things happened. It's a complete misrepresentation of the event.

Well I'm discussing swatting as a general thing as well as this case.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,511
16,225
146
I'm asking you.

I'm not an expert. All I can tell you is police have been actively promoting anonymous tipping here, and in the UK for multiple generations. I would assume they know more about it than I do.
 

pubquiz

Junior Member
Jan 4, 2019
13
2
36
OK. He's not your brother. So fucking what? He's still an idiot and you are for defending his actions.

Cops have no way of knowing any call is a hoax. I know from experience that a ton of calls they go out on are false alarms. They still have to respond every unit they can on a call this serious because possible lives could be at stake, right up until the first units on scene confirm it's a false alarm. I can't believe you are continuing to suggest they shouldn't.

You obviously haven't experience any kind of real world emergency situation. Once alerted, first responders keep going in force until they are sure nobody needs their help, not the other way around.


You are showing your intelligence now Paladin with your foul language...every one who disagrees with you is an idiot eh?... you've already proved you got it wrong saying he was my brother and you proved you didnt listen to the full stream or you would have know the reason he knew immediately it was a prank....you have shown you are obviously of the dive in first without having all the facts menatlity...you also have no idea whether or not I have any experience with real life emergency situations. Not much point in trying to have a proper discusion so will just agree to disagree.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
31,408
9,299
136
I'm not an expert. All I can tell you is police have been actively promoting anonymous tipping here, and in the UK for multiple generations. I would assume they know more about it than I do.
Have a think about it then. In what situation would you set up a vpn, make a voip call, disguise all your tracks and not give any ID when making an emergency call?

This isnt someone grassing on a cartel its someone phoning in a report of a gunshot.
 
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Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,511
16,225
146
You are showing your intelligence now Paladin with your foul language...every one who disagrees with you is an idiot eh?... you've already proved you got it wrong saying he was my brother and you proved you didnt listen to the full stream or you would have know the reason he knew immediately it was a prank....you have shown you are obviously of the dive in first without having all the facts menatlity...you also have no idea whether or not I have any experience with real life emergency situations. Not much point in trying to have a proper discusion so will just agree to disagree.

I would say it is hardly his fault he confused you with the other 2 brand new accounts with similar names (one of whom claimed to be his brother) posting in this thread all taking the same stance.

Who the fuck are all of you anyway?
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
31,408
9,299
136
OK. He's not your brother. So fucking what? He's still an idiot and you are for defending his actions.

Cops have no way of knowing any call is a hoax. I know from experience that a ton of calls they go out on are false alarms. They still have to respond every unit they can on a call this serious because possible lives could be at stake, right up until the first units on scene confirm it's a false alarm. I can't believe you are continuing to suggest they shouldn't.

You obviously haven't experience any kind of real world emergency situation. Once alerted, first responders keep going in force until they are sure nobody needs their help, not the other way around.
Why is he an idiot? The police were clearly not in a hurry to get in there. Even when they did get in they just mooched around a bit. They were just pissed that he thought, rightly, that they were acting ridiculously.
 

Paladin3

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2004
4,933
877
126
Who legitimately phones the police using every way to hide their identity in a situation like this?




And this is why swatting is a thing. Its not going to just stop.
Nobody expects swatting to stop. It's a crime and we punish those who do so if we can catch them. But we don't lessen our response to cries for help to deal with this problem. And we don't start tracing phone lines or guessing if a call is legit before we send help.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
31,408
9,299
136
Nobody expects swatting to stop. It's a crime and we punish those who do so if we can catch them. But we don't lessen our response to cries for help to deal with this problem. And we don't start tracing phone lines or guessing if a call is legit before we send help.
You are just saying there that you are just going to put up with swatting because you dont want to change anything about the police response. You realise that dont you?

Spotty 14 year olds on the internet are not going to stop being stupid, and its just going to get harder to catch them.

You've made your police force into a weapon and now you don't want to change it for reasons.
 

Paladin3

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2004
4,933
877
126
You are showing your intelligence now Paladin with your foul language...every one who disagrees with you is an idiot eh?... you've already proved you got it wrong saying he was my brother and you proved you didnt listen to the full stream or you would have know the reason he knew immediately it was a prank....you have shown you are obviously of the dive in first without having all the facts menatlity...you also have no idea whether or not I have any experience with real life emergency situations. Not much point in trying to have a proper discusion so will just agree to disagree.

Address my thoughts and ideas, or hide behind being offended by my foul language. Maybe I'd want to dance around semantics rather than deal with the actual issue too, if I were as wrong as you are.

1. The cops acted appropriately.
2. Your Youtube hero did not.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
31,408
9,299
136
Address my thoughts and ideas, or hide behind being offended by my foul language. Maybe I'd want to dance around semantics rather than deal with the actual issue too, if I were as wrong as you are.

1. The cops acted appropriately.
2. Your Youtube hero did not.
Youtube hero literally was the only person not in the wrong! Is it now illegal to be slightly sarcastic to policemen?
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,511
16,225
146
You are just saying there that you are just going to put up with swatting because you dont want to change anything about the police response. You realise that dont you?

Spotty 14 year olds on the internet are not going to stop being stupid, and its just going to get harder to catch them.

You've made your police force into a weapon and now you don't want to change it for reasons.

https://www.newstatesman.com/sci-te...n-and-harassment-tool-and-police-need-take-it

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-derbyshire-46482380