Career advice for network engineering student

[Danimal1209]

Hello,

I am currently studying Information Assurance and Security Engineering at DePaul University. I am a senior and will be graduating after the spring quarter 2013. So far, I have only had an internship with a company that does IT consulting. I would do normal intern stuff and do some client pc work, such as installing programs, OS re-installation, etc. Professors say I should be able to pass the CCNA without a problem though.

Ideally, I would want to move in to some type of network administration. After that, I would want to move in to IT security. Being that I don't have much/any experience, what is the best way to break in to the field?

Any recommendations? Is it worth setting up a small network at home using Windows Server and getting familiar with AD and policies?

 

[donfm]

I think you're in the wrong forum for the question you asked. This is a technical forum not a job networking forum but somebody may reply.

 

[Danimal1209]

Well, I know there are quite a few networking professionals on these forums. So, I thought posting in the network section might help. But I'll try somewhere else.

 

[theevilsharpie]

In IT, experience is king. Start at the bottom and look for opportunities to put your networking knowledge to use. Go for certifications in your spare time. Unless you suck, you'll eventually get noticed. This works best in smaller shops, and since you've worked with an IT consulting ship before, you may want to look for IT shops in your area.

 

[spidey07]

It would help tremendously to have a small network at home with a cisco router and switch both capable of vlans and routing between them (almost all do).

After that if you want to be even halfway decent you'll have to get pretty good at networking/routing/switching/firewalls. The amount of "security" people out there without a single clue how traffic actually moves is beyond me, the big bucks guys are routing/switching experts that then moved into security which is what I did.

Also "networking" has nothing to do with MS AD or servers, it's all the plumbing of moving frames and packets.

Get CCNP and CCNP security.

http://www.cisco.com/web/learning/le3/learning_career_certifications_and_learning_paths_home.html

 

[Danimal1209]

Thanks for the advice guys.

In class we have been doing a lot of labs with routing in ripv2, ospf, bpg, eigrp, and vlans. This quarter we're starting labs for firewalls and vpn's. Our labs are AMAZING. It has 10 "pods", each pod with 2 ASA firewalls, 3 switches, 4 routers, all configured via putty and a terminal server. Is this the same type of setup that I will find in the real world?

 

[xSauronx]

Thanks for the advice guys.

In class we have been doing a lot of labs with routing in ripv2, ospf, bpg, eigrp, and vlans. This quarter we're starting labs for firewalls and vpn's. Our labs are AMAZING. It has 10 "pods", each pod with 2 ASA firewalls, 3 switches, 4 routers, all configured via putty and a terminal server. Is this the same type of setup that I will find in the real world?

i *wish* the school i went to had a lab like that, i didnt learn squat about configuring ASAs and vpn tunnels and i see those things ALL the time.

 

[spidey07]

Thanks for the advice guys.

In class we have been doing a lot of labs with routing in ripv2, ospf, bpg, eigrp, and vlans. This quarter we're starting labs for firewalls and vpn's. Our labs are AMAZING. It has 10 "pods", each pod with 2 ASA firewalls, 3 switches, 4 routers, all configured via putty and a terminal server. Is this the same type of setup that I will find in the real world?

Similar, but in the real world it won't be a playground and you simply MUST have a very solid understanding of what you are doing and the impact of it. Getting it all to work is easy when there is no pressure and no traffic. The key to being successful in this field is truly understanding the OSI model and what's happening on the wire, in the router, and what's truly going on.

The big thing in the real world is what are you doing at a single device that would impact every other device including some on the other side of the world you don't have access to.

 

[Danimal1209]

So, you really need to take some time to plan changes and their affects on other devices.

 

[kevnich2]

Pretty much yes. Spend lots of time planning. The biggest screw ups that i have seen happened during routine maintenance. As spidey has said, AD isnt really networking. It does involve networking but that is more systems admin. network admin is how traffic moves from point a, b and c and how to make it move as efficiently as possible for the applications it supports.

 

[spidey07]

So, you really need to take some time to plan changes and their affects on other devices.

That's the key to networking and takes 5-10+ YEARS to develop. Experience and really knowing the protocols are the only way to achieve that. That experience will help with designing networks and security solutions as well.

The knowledge of what is actually going on the wire is the only way to achieve this. Telling a router what to do is easy, understanding what you're doing to every other device and the implications is the key.

 

[alkemyst]

I think you're in the wrong forum for the question you asked. This is a technical forum not a job networking forum but somebody may reply.

wow bro, you are a real downer all the time. IMHO he wasn't looking for a job directly, but a way to leverage into one through Networking...which is what this subforum is about.

To me that is a bit technical.

OP, if you are looking admin jobs then Microsoft certs are usually the way to go. For engineering, Cisco is KING (if looking at Cisco shops).

Getting your CCIE goes a LONG way in either passion though, but as an admin you will be seeing a lot of technologies.

 

[alkemyst]

Similar, but in the real world it won't be a playground and you simply MUST have a very solid understanding of what you are doing and the impact of it. Getting it all to work is easy when there is no pressure and no traffic. The key to being successful in this field is truly understanding the OSI model and what's happening on the wire, in the router, and what's truly going on.

The big thing in the real world is what are you doing at a single device that would impact every other device including some on the other side of the world you don't have access to.

QFT, set VTP to non-transparent and play in the lab with switches configured for your network, but on a separate one. Have a switch fail and replace it with that lab switch.

Epic day (and night, and perhaps several days and nights after!).

Experienced engineers understand this problem and it'd be rare to be bitten by it. However, many businesses don't and when they get bit; they have to call in the pro's.

I have only been in a consulting engineering firm about 1.5 years now, prior to that I was an admin. I have personally heard of 4 customers now that added to the networks we built and got bit by VTP thinking 'automatic' must be best. None of them did their CCNA at least, just figured they could try and rinse and repeat what we built.

Fortunately we save configs so usually can get them back up and running pretty fast.

 

[xyyz]

while the technical stuff is key, i would also suggest looking to add something to it that would have you stand out.

you want to show some management know how. look towards getting your ITIL cert as well to give you some leverage over someone with your identical skill set. in addition to the ITIL, start looking at doing some project work to eventually get your PMP. if you don't want to wait all the years to do the the PMP, you can always go the PRINCE2 route which should take a few days. while the PRINCE2 isn't what we really use in the US (PMI factory here), it is more recognized outside of the US than the PMP.

 

[Cooky]

Even if you only want to focus on networking, it's still good to have some AD knowledge & background.
A lot of network security & WAN optimization solutions require AD integration.

If you're young, and want to accelerate your skill set, seek a job at a consulting firm.
You're thrown into fires & have to build/resolve fast, and can learn things very quickly.
Keep in mind you'll have to deal w/ stress, mean clients, and a lot of hours.
After you build up your skill set, you can then leave & find something cushy.

 

[PCTC2]

Just remember The 6 P's when planning networking.

Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen bad planning go to hell really quickly. Also, as they've said, experience is king. I've gotten all my jobs on experience alone.

 

[alkemyst]

Just remember The 6 P's when planning networking.

Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen bad planning go to hell really quickly. Also, as they've said, experience is king. I've gotten all my jobs on experience alone.

Experience is king in any field, however; without certification it's hard to determine if you are following best practices, referring to technologies correctly and how you'd integrate with others.

My shop does all design ahead of laying any equipment down. We say it's the 80/20 rule where 80% of the work is done prior to us even showing up on the job site(s).

Quite a few customers have been concerned not seeing us 'working' for months, but they give us major accollades in how the stuff just turns on one day and all works. Too many try to design as they go and have to backtrack/create work-arounds on things they didn't plan for.

 

[cmetz]

Ideally, I would want to move in to some type of network administration. After that, I would want to move in to IT security. Being that I don't have much/any experience, what is the best way to break in to the field?

Any recommendations? Is it worth setting up a small network at home using Windows Server and getting familiar with AD and policies?

Setting up a home lab and experimenting hands-on is a great idea.

Certs will help get you in the door for a low-level job, maybe even a mid-level job. They are otherwise highly overvalued. I know people who passed the CCNP by memorizing the exam prep material and can't do *anything* on a real network.

A four-year degree from a real university is extremely important as a minimum - sounds like you've got that under control.

Do you have campus/student groups such as tech user groups, or even better, are there such things in your city (Chicago)? Start (people) networking. Get out there and meet people in your area in the field you want to work.

Go buy a low-end Cisco router, switch, and firewall (ASA) that's one generation old (eBay is good for this). Experiment, learn. Harder to do so with Juniper, but they have a program where you can rent remote lab time - do this after learning Cisco so you already have the concepts down.

Also go download and experiment with VMware vSphere and with Red Had Linux. They're common in the enterprise space. Being MS-only puts blinders on you, you would be well served to see alternate ways of doing things even if you work in an all-MS shop.

 

[alkemyst]

Setting up a home lab and experimenting hands-on is a great idea.

Certs will help get you in the door for a low-level job, maybe even a mid-level job. They are otherwise highly overvalued. I know people who passed the CCNP by memorizing the exam prep material and can't do *anything* on a real network.

A four-year degree from a real university is extremely important as a minimum - sounds like you've got that under control.

Do you have campus/student groups such as tech user groups, or even better, are there such things in your city (Chicago)? Start (people) networking. Get out there and meet people in your area in the field you want to work.

Go buy a low-end Cisco router, switch, and firewall (ASA) that's one generation old (eBay is good for this). Experiment, learn. Harder to do so with Juniper, but they have a program where you can rent remote lab time - do this after learning Cisco so you already have the concepts down.

Also go download and experiment with VMware vSphere and with Red Had Linux. They're common in the enterprise space. Being MS-only puts blinders on you, you would be well served to see alternate ways of doing things even if you work in an all-MS shop.

Personally you are making it way more complicated that it has to be. Most of the engineers I work with have no four year degree unless in management.

IMHO skipping a 4 year degree and putting that same (half) time into getting a CCIE is the best bang for buck on the planet now unless you are lucky in life.

You can pass any exam with braindumps. I totally avoid them because in this endevour you have to be able to walk the talk. If you are in a company that simply throws random challenges at you in order for you to get your salary increases, by all means braindump and fuck them at their own game.

 

[cmetz]

Most of the engineers I work with have no four year degree unless in management.

Then you do not work with engineers.

 

[Cooky]

Another angle to go about the 4-year degree, whether everyone agrees its usefulness, is to get your foot into a place where they sponsor college tuition.

You may have to fulfill certain length of employment for full reimbursement, but IMHO it's a good way to get a degree w/o having to go broke.
Bunch of my colleagues are doing that, and I wish I'd done that when I went to college.

Also look into colleges where they offer courses that include CCNA/CCNP certs.
Some of them also have labs so that you don't have to source your own.

 

[alkemyst]

Then you do not work with engineers.

Nice edit on your post, but in the line of Network Engineers there really isn't a college degree for one.

We employ some of the brightest minds in the world though and do have those that have designed DoD gear, one of the most prolific train network systems in the country, and a variety of hardened phones.

I'd say you hide a bit two much behind a simple 4 year degree that they have made so pretty much anyone can get.

I have a four year degree plus all of another four year degree but 3 classes.

 

[alkemyst]

Another angle to go about the 4-year degree, whether everyone agrees its usefulness, is to get your foot into a place where they sponsor college tuition.

You may have to fulfill certain length of employment for full reimbursement, but IMHO it's a good way to get a degree w/o having to go broke.
Bunch of my colleagues are doing that, and I wish I'd done that when I went to college.

Also look into colleges where they offer courses that include CCNA/CCNP certs.
Some of them also have labs so that you don't have to source your own.

My company offers college reimbursement regardless if you came with a degree or not.

 

[PCTC2]

Then you do not work with engineers.

Haha. There are more professions called "engineers" than just a college degree engineering field. Sure, I did graduate with an electrical engineering degree, but at my job, I'm considered a "Systems Engineer" and my CCNP friend is a "Networking Engineer".

You don't need a degree to be considered an engineer. Engineering is all about design and implementation, which doesn't just have to be the strict definition for electrical/mechanical/chemical engineering in colleges.

 

[alkemyst]

Haha. There are more professions called "engineers" than just a college degree engineering field. Sure, I did graduate with an electrical engineering degree, but at my job, I'm considered a "Systems Engineer" and my CCNP friend is a "Networking Engineer".

You don't need a degree to be considered an engineer. Engineering is all about design and implementation, which doesn't just have to be the strict definition for electrical/mechanical/chemical engineering in colleges.

Prior to the toolbag editing his post he was comparing network engineers to sanitation engineers and other simple engineering titles.