Card upgrade advice

[chnsawalex]

Hello all,
First I would like to thank you guys upfront for reading this long post and I appreciate any comments that you may have on the below specs.


I'm looking to upgrade my video card in my main rig from a GeForce 6600 GT 128mb PCI-E mainly because the fan is getting loud and I would like to put my current card in an older PC. Here are a few of my criteria:

- I have a 430w power supply, I wouldn't mind upgrading it but would prefer that I didn't just yet.

- I play games like Guildwars, Warcraft 3, and some time play FPS (most of my gaming is on the xbox360). I also would like to play around with video editing (not important).

- The budget is $200 and lower and I would like to stay in the $130 range.

- My current motherboard doesn't support SLI / Crossfire. When I do eventually upgrade my entire PC I'm going to go the i7 route and again stick to one card.

- As for chip maker, I like Nvidia. Their cards have always severed me well. I have used ATI cards before but would need to get sold to switch to them.

- Manufacturer: I have been hearing great things about XFX and am leaning toward them but would like to hear everyone's opinion on other brands.

- Oh also important I would like to keep it as quiet as possible. I have had to replace the fan on my current card because it went and would like to have at least a few years out of this card without having to hear it.

 

[brblx]

what brand is the psu, and what is the amperage rating for the 12v rail (look at the sticker)?

what cpu do you have? wow will definately be cpu bound, guild wars probably somewhat as well.

in your price range, there's the gts250 1gb and gtx260. both are decent cards, though i think the 250 comes up a bit short in its price range. if you consider ati, even a 4850 is a gigantic upgrade from a 6600gt and can be had for under a hundred dollars.

 

[Arglebargle]

I would think a 4770 might be a consideration as well...runs cooler, quieter, with less power needs...if you can find one. I'd think a gtx260 might be a little more power hungry. A lot will depend on the power supply. If it is a well built 430, that gives you more reasonable options.

 

[kreacher]

Originally posted by: chnsawalex
- As for chip maker, I like Nvidia. Their cards have always severed me well. I have used ATI cards before but would need to get sold to switch to them.

I would stay away from cards that sever you but its your choice

The GTS 250 would be a good choice for you since you're leaning towards NVidia even though in that ATI has a price/performance advantage.
See this - http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3588

 

[chnsawalex]

Originally posted by: brblx
what brand is the psu, and what is the amperage rating for the 12v rail (look at the sticker)?

what cpu do you have? wow will definitely be cpu bound, guild wars probably somewhat as well.

in your price range, there's the gts250 1gb and gtx260. both are decent cards, though i think the 250 comes up a bit short in its price range. if you consider ati, even a 4850 is a gigantic upgrade from a 6600gt and can be had for under a hundred dollars.

I just read reviews of my power supply and it looks like it isn't good enough for any of the mid range cards. Meaning I will either have to buy a cheap card now and upgrade everything later or get a decent power supply now and a mid range card. Thermaltake Purepower 430W NP Power Supply (Picture of the Power Supply label).

What are my options for decent ATI cards since it looks like they draw a lot less power?

Originally posted by: kreacher

Originally posted by: chnsawalex
- As for chip maker, I like Nvidia. Their cards have always severed me well. I have used ATI cards before but would need to get sold to switch to them.

I would stay away from cards that sever you but its your choice

The GTS 250 would be a good choice for you since you're leaning towards NVidia even though in that ATI has a price/performance advantage.
See this - http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3588

Haha, I read this earlier today and it made me laugh. It goes to show you that proof reading at night doesn't work. Thanks for the link.

 

[Jephph]

I would personally upgrade my PSU to something more futureproof. You can get a decent 600-700W PSU for about $100 that will sever you well when you upgrade to Core i7 down the road. Then just get something like an HD4830 or HD4770 for now.

 

[Schmide]

Originally posted by: chnsawalex
I just read reviews of my power supply and it looks like it isn't good enough for any of the mid range cards. Meaning I will either have to buy a cheap card now and upgrade everything later or get a decent power supply now and a mid range card. Thermaltake Purepower 430W NP Power Supply (Picture of the Power Supply label).

What are my options for decent ATI cards since it looks like they draw a lot less power?

That power supply isn't horrible. From the review I just looked at it can deliver 16a on the 12v.

What CPU do you have? That would go a long way to figuring out your power requirements.

 

[kylebisme]

The power supply requirements listed along video cards assume a very poor quality model. I run my Ci7 setup with a GTX260 on a 430w Seasonic. Looking up info on your Thermaltake it doesn't look to be quite as nice, but depending on the rest of your rig it could be fine with a GTX260 as well.

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: kylebisme
The power supply requirements listed along video cards assume a very poor quality model. I run my Ci7 setup with a GTX260 on a 430w Seasonic. Looking up info on your Thermaltake it doesn't look to be quite as nice, but depending on the rest of your rig it could be fine with a GTX260 as well.

no it cannot run a gtx260. that psu is the biggest name brand joke of a 430watt unit made. the only people that buy those are customers that simply dont understand power supplies and only look at the 430 watt rating. that psu only has 18 amps on the 12v which is a complete joke for anything other than a fairly basic system. that review Schmide linked to showed it couldnt even deliver that.

 

[Schmide]

Originally posted by: toyota

Originally posted by: kylebisme
The power supply requirements listed along video cards assume a very poor quality model. I run my Ci7 setup with a GTX260 on a 430w Seasonic. Looking up info on your Thermaltake it doesn't look to be quite as nice, but depending on the rest of your rig it could be fine with a GTX260 as well.

no it cannot run a gtx260. that psu is the biggest name brand joke of a 430watt unit made. the only people that buy those are customers that simply dont understand power supplies and only look at the 430 watt rating. that psu only has 18 amps on the 12v which is a complete joke for anything other than a fairly basic system. that review Schmide linked to showed it couldnt even deliver that.

I disagree with that blanket statement.

If the OP has a not so hungry CPU, a 55nm gtx260 (105-110w) card could easily work in his system. As could a 9600gt (60w), 9600gso(80w), 9800gt(55w-85w), 4770(55w?), 4850(110w)

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: Schmide

Originally posted by: toyota

Originally posted by: kylebisme
The power supply requirements listed along video cards assume a very poor quality model. I run my Ci7 setup with a GTX260 on a 430w Seasonic. Looking up info on your Thermaltake it doesn't look to be quite as nice, but depending on the rest of your rig it could be fine with a GTX260 as well.

no it cannot run a gtx260. that psu is the biggest name brand joke of a 430watt unit made. the only people that buy those are customers that simply dont understand power supplies and only look at the 430 watt rating. that psu only has 18 amps on the 12v which is a complete joke for anything other than a fairly basic system. that review Schmide linked to showed it couldnt even deliver that.

I disagree with that blanket statement.

If the OP has a not so hungry CPU, a 55nm gtx260 (105-110w) card could easily work in his system. As could a 9600gt (60w), 9600gso(80w), 9800gt(55w-85w), 4770(55w?), 4850(110w)

I know you like to argue and if you are really suggesting running a 4850 or gtx260 in any reasonably appropriate system with a psu that has just 16 12v amps then you are being ridiculous. funny how the other day you were suggesting that a 4850 wouldnt be a good idea in that guys basic Dell pc with a psu that provided 18 12v amps.

 

[AzN]

You could probably pick up a 4670 without upgrading your power supply. 18amps on 12v rail is really for a basic system.

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: Azn
You could probably pick up a 4670 without upgrading your power supply. 18amps on 12v rail is really for a basic system.

yeah no kidding especially since that review showed the psu could actually only deliver 16 of the 18 12v amps it was rated at.

 

[Schmide]

Originally posted by: toyota
kylebisme said a gtx260. other than that I said a fairly basic system as in entry level dual or quad core cpu, 1dvd, 1hd, and basic video card such as a 4670 or so. running even a system like that with a psu that only can deliver 16 12v amps would still be a little risky and running anything more would be asking for trouble. I know you like to argue and if you are really suggesting running a 4850 with a psu that has just 16 12v amps then you are being ridiculous.

We won't know until we get more specifications. Unless the OP has a P4 Prescott, X2 FX, or Toledo, the CPU could come in around 50w.

So doing the extreme load math

50w CPU
105w gtx260
30w chipset
5w memory
15w hd
20w DVD/fan/misc

total 225w

80% on the 12v = 180w = 15a = 83% of the 12v.

Now I wouldn't recommend a gtx260, I would definitely recommend a lesser card. A 50-80w card would do fine.

BTW you said basic system HeHe

Edit: adding. Although a core 2 E8600 is a much less power hungry cpu 35w look at this power profile

xbit low end gaming system

Edit: no one noticed my addition error. 210 vs 225w

More moot more moot

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: Schmide

Originally posted by: toyota
kylebisme said a gtx260. other than that I said a fairly basic system as in entry level dual or quad core cpu, 1dvd, 1hd, and basic video card such as a 4670 or so. running even a system like that with a psu that only can deliver 16 12v amps would still be a little risky and running anything more would be asking for trouble. I know you like to argue and if you are really suggesting running a 4850 with a psu that has just 16 12v amps then you are being ridiculous.

We won't know until we get more specifications. Unless the OP has a P4 Prescott, X2 FX, or Toledo, the CPU could come in around 50w.

So doing the extreme load math

50w CPU
105w gtx260
30w chipset
5w memory
15w hd
20w DVD/fan/misc

total 210w

80% on the 12v = 168w = 14a = 77% of the 12v.

Now I wouldn't recommend a gtx260, I would definitely recommend a lesser card. A 50-80w card would do fine.

BTW you said basic system HeHe

your own post earlier to that review showed the psu could only make 16 amps so that would be 90% load right there. also I said fairly basic system and actually went back and edited my post to say appropriate system. by that I mean the typical basic system that someone would run a decent card in to begin with.

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: Schmide

Originally posted by: toyota
kylebisme said a gtx260. other than that I said a fairly basic system as in entry level dual or quad core cpu, 1dvd, 1hd, and basic video card such as a 4670 or so. running even a system like that with a psu that only can deliver 16 12v amps would still be a little risky and running anything more would be asking for trouble. I know you like to argue and if you are really suggesting running a 4850 with a psu that has just 16 12v amps then you are being ridiculous.

We won't know until we get more specifications. Unless the OP has a P4 Prescott, X2 FX, or Toledo, the CPU could come in around 50w.

So doing the extreme load math

50w CPU
105w gtx260
30w chipset
5w memory
15w hd
20w DVD/fan/misc

total 210w

80% on the 12v = 168w = 14a = 77% of the 12v.

Now I wouldn't recommend a gtx260, I would definitely recommend a lesser card. A 50-80w card would do fine.

BTW you said basic system HeHe

Edit: adding. Although a core 2 E8600 is a much less power hungry cpu 35w look at this power profile

xbit low end gaming system

I don't know why you are arguing unless you were arguing for the sake of it. This power supply is not going to power a GTX260 or anything remotely power hungry.

 

[Schmide]

Originally posted by: Azn
I don't know why you are arguing unless you were arguing for the sake of it. This power supply is not going to power a GTX260 or anything remotely power hungry.

It could power it; however, it is on the edge of the envelope. I would not recommend it. There is a difference between recommending something and saying it could work.

We really know very little of the OP system, other than the PSU and at one time he had a 6600gt.

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: Schmide

Originally posted by: Azn
I don't know why you are arguing unless you were arguing for the sake of it. This power supply is not going to power a GTX260 or anything remotely power hungry.

It could power it; however, it is on the edge of the envelope. I would not recommend it. There is a difference between recommending something and saying it could work.

We really know very little of the OP system, other than the PSU and at one time he had a 6600gt.

Then why are you going off how this power supply is going to power a fully loaded GTX260 system? I have 450watt power supply and powering a GTX260 but then again my power supply has 2 12v rails and not a single low rail power supply like the OP has.

Even then my system sometimes crash if I raise voltage on my CPU. I definitely need more power than this 450watt soon. I wouldn't advice anyone running a GTX260 with that power supply. You would have dead parts sooner or later.

P.S.. 50watt CPU? 30watts for chipset? You are cutting it way too low in favor of your argument.

 

[Wreckage]

Get a GTS250, it's faster than an ATI 4850 and it uses a lot less power, so you PSU should be fine.

 

[Schmide]

Originally posted by: Azn
Then why are you going off how this power supply is going to power a fully loaded GTX260 system? I have 450watt power supply and powering a GTX260 but then again my power supply has 2 12v rails and not a single low rail power supply like the OP has.

Even then my system sometimes crash if I raise voltage on my CPU. I definitely need more power. I wouldn't advice anyone running a GTX260 with that power supply. You would have dead parts sooner or later.

P.S.. Power supplies just doesn't work like your calculation there.

The whole point of my original post was the statement, "It cannot run" was not exactly correct. You can easily get a system with a ~100w card to run with 13a on the 12v. Look at the xbitlabs article in my above post.

I'm not going off on anything. I was being civil, waiting for all the facts asking for more information, etc. I like the way you attempt to cage me into a black and white argument. (straw man again)

I did not do the calculations because I was lacking information about his system (i.e CPU). After I did the calculations, I stated, "I wouldn't recommend a gtx260"

 

[Schmide]

Originally posted by: Azn
P.S.. 50watt CPU? 30watts for chipset? You are cutting it way too low in favor of your argument.

About the edit: Seriously WTF. 4 posts above yours any argument was rendered moot by the calculations I made. (straw man)

 

[Tempered81]

I suggest GTX275, GTX260 216, HD48701gb or HD4890.

 

[chnsawalex]

I have the following in my current system:

CPU: AMD Athlon 64 4000+
MB: EPoX 9NPA+Ultra
Memory: 4 sticks of PC3200
2x sata hard drives 7200rpm and 1x IDE
1 dvd drive and 1 dvd burner

I can get more detailed if necessary.

 

[Cookie Monster]

A 9600GT (80~90) should be fine with your needs (or an HD4670). Save the rest for a better system in the nearby future.

List of 9600GTs you can choose from newegg for example

PSU could cause problems, but with the list of games your playing, e.g war3 which isn't what you would call graphically intensive title, I dont think you have to worry too much about it. Maybe keep an eye on it though.

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: chnsawalex
I have the following in my current system:

CPU: AMD Athlon 64 4000+
MB: EPoX 9NPA+Ultra
Memory: 4 sticks of PC3200
2x sata hard drives 7200rpm and 1x IDE
1 dvd drive and 1 dvd burner

I can get more detailed if necessary.

even if your psu was better theres no need in putting a high end card in a system with a single core cpu. 4670 should be the fastest card you should consider especially with your psu. tbh even something like a 4670 will be severally limited in modern games with that outdated single core cpu. not only is it just one core but clock for a clock a modern cpu would run rings around it even in single threaded apps.