Car salesmen are a pain in the... no cursing, more constructive thread now.

[Cuda1447]

/rant

Freaking bought a 350z less than two years ago (used, 2006 model). Had previously purchased one car from this dealership for my wife. Decided on the 350 and was WAY to trusting. This is my fault, but the dealership is a shady (edit) for doing this shit (and its a major dealership). Convertible top was TAPED UP on the inside to hide the holes. I didn't notice cause it was taped really (edit) good. But a few months later the tape started coming off to reveal the holes. I was talked into the warranty when I was purchasing the car based on the fact that it was a convertible. I agreed, I knew convertible tops were expensive to repair. This guy told me pretty much everything on the convertible top except wear and tear was covered. Alright, let's do it. Well now the top isn't going down anymore, take it in to get repaired. Went to the dealership again to get my warranty information, talked to finance guy and again he says yea, your shit should be covered. I explained the problem and he told me I had the platinum warranty, best they had and that should all be covered, plus cost for rental car, just take it to the Nissan place to get it fixed. I take it in there today, talk with the guy for a bit, leave the car, he calls me back. Nope, not covered. Only the motor is covered under the fidelity warranty. Pretty much everything else is not covered, including the shit that was wrong with mine. So now I'm looking at spending 1500-2000 to get the shit fixed. Whatever, I'll just buy a new car. This car has had other problems as well. Including never being given the keyless entry key that they had 'misplaced' initially but never found out. I was to nice a guy to cause a shitstorm about it two weeks after I got the car and just shrugged it off. Scratches all on the hood that were shined up super awesomely when I purchased the car and a couple other things I don't want to get into.


Yes, I should have read every detail and line of the warranty information when I purchased it. I should have inspected every inch of the car to look for top and wiped off all the greasy shine they put on it to reveal the scratches. But I was naive and trusted these (edit). Never (edit). I'm beyond pissed off right now. So now I'm looking for a new car and these salesmen are pieces of shit. Look, this is what I want to pay. This is what I'll put down. I'm even on my trade in and my credit is great. What price can you give me. "Oh blah blah, we need your license, we need to do credit check, out what about this car... what about that, let me make you wait 30 minutes" (edit), ITS NOT THAT (edit) HARD. Why do these guys have to be such (edit) shiesters. If you can't do it for that price or don't have a car that fits my needs just (edit) tell me. Don't make me sit in your god damned office for 30 minutes while you try to finagle some other bullshit that I don't want. Bitches showed me a 350z they had just gotten in that was obviously damaged and they were repairing. 50k miles on it. Scratched and dented to hell but they assured me they would fix it up to make it brand new. Wanted over 20k for that shit. ARE YOU JOKING ME!?!?! Jesus christ quit trying to rip me off.


*sigh* frustrated as hell right now. Anyone have any tips?


/rant

While your frustration is understood the profanity is not... (save it for OT)

AT Moderator
Bartman39



*edit*

Sorry Mod. I'll try to turn this thread into something more constructive that we can all use to learn from. Removing curse from title.

 

[TakeNoPrisoners]

Go in knowing everything about the car you want to buy. Do more homework then the dealer. Inspect it and if you find any flaws hammer them down on price.

Do not back down on anything, if you do not like the way they are treating you then leave and go somewhere else with all your money.

 

[satyajitmenon]

Find another dealership? Where are you located?

I know most stealerships are, well, stealerships. But not all.

Have you considered buying from a private seller?

 

[Cuda1447]

Find another dealership? Where are you located?

I know most stealerships are, well, stealerships. But not all.

Have you considered buying from a private seller?

I'll consider anything at this point. I'm in Wesley Chapel, Fl.

I know what I want. I want a Nissan 370z hardtop base model, negotiable on the miles it has. Year doesn't matter, 2009, 2010, whatever. I think going into dealerships is a waste of time. I spend more time bullshitting with these people than actually finding out if they can give me the price I want. I'm trying to email sellers I find on autotrader etc... but haven't had many responses via email. I'm not giving them my phone # so they can harass me.

 

[Doppel]

You can waste a lot of time in these. I let them know I"m shopping elsewhere and also when I go in tell them early on I'm on lunch break. I have an hour, so let's not dick around for the entire afternoon.

 

[Cuda1447]

Here's what's frustrating. I found a few vehicles online that were within my price range but just a bit higher than I wanted to spend. Emailed a few of them telling them I was looking around and please let me know their best price they could offer. I get one email back that says this

"Sorry I have to pass the internet price is my best price"

Are you F'ing joking me? Do these people not want to sell a freaking car? REALLY? And these guys are 3 minutes from me. I'd buy this car TODAY if they gave me a good deal. I'm a really easy customer. I know exactly what I want I just want you to give me a good price.

 

[smitbret]

I'll consider anything at this point. I'm in Wesley Chapel, Fl.

I know what I want. I want a Nissan 370z hardtop base model, negotiable on the miles it has. Year doesn't matter, 2009, 2010, whatever. I think going into dealerships is a waste of time. I spend more time bullshitting with these people than actually finding out if they can give me the price I want. I'm trying to email sellers I find on autotrader etc... but haven't had many responses via email. I'm not giving them my phone # so they can harass me.

I think I can see why you've been treated this way so far. Your initial experience with the holes in the convertible top is bullcrap and gives everyone in the business a bad name. As for the scratches... you do realize that you bought a 5-year old car, right? It's going to have scratches and dings.

It's unfortunate, but if you go in with the attitude you have now, your experience is only going to get worse.

I've been a car salesman/sales manager for 9 years. 90% of the people in the business are good and do it fairly. Unfortunately, ill informed customers make us all look bad.

You said that you were even on the trade and had great credit.... says who? If you are taking the NADA and KBB values then you aren't using anything close to real. Those are just feel good numbers. Keep in mind that there are retail numbers and trade-in/wholesale numbers. If you are planning on getting the full trade-in value, then plan on paying the full retail value for the car you're purchasing. The real value of a car is $1000-$2000 less than that. It's also location dependent. For instance, if you try trading in a 2WD truck or convertibel where I live, you might as well expect to take $3000-5000 less because we just don't want them because no one will buy them.

Secondly, just because you have a good credit score doesn't mean you are in a good situation to buy a car. There's more to it than that, i.e. Loan to Value, Payment to Income, Debt to Income, short credit history.

Customers that walk in, demand the best price for the vehicle, demand the best value for the trade-in at the lowest payment available and want it right now without giving any information usually get NONE of those and walk away even more pissed off than when they entered. The happiest customers understand that the dealership is in business to make money. Come in prepared with a good offer based on invoice/retail and a Manheim Auction report for the trade. They know what car they want and have been pre-approved by their own bank (not just driven by and read the rate painted on their credit union's window). Then they sit down and treat everyone with respect, go along with the process and are a little bit flexible. Those people are the customers the dealership will bend over backwards for during the transaction, after it and when you send your friends and family back in. Keep in mind that you aren't a customer until you've actually bought something, you're just another guy out kicking the tires.

 

[smitbret]

Here's what's frustrating. I found a few vehicles online that were within my price range but just a bit higher than I wanted to spend. Emailed a few of them telling them I was looking around and please let me know their best price they could offer. I get one email back that says this

"Sorry I have to pass the internet price is my best price"

Are you F'ing joking me? Do these people not want to sell a freaking car? REALLY? And these guys are 3 minutes from me. I'd buy this car TODAY if they gave me a good deal. I'm a really easy customer. I know exactly what I want I just want you to give me a good price.

He gave you a good price. In fact he told you right up front what the price was. I though that's what you wanted:

"I spend more time bullshitting with these people than actually finding out if they can give me the price I want." - Cuda1447 Oct 1, 2011 1:39pm MDT

Sounds like you're wasting their time.

 

[Cuda1447]

I think I can see why you've been treated this way so far. Your initial experience with the holes in the convertible top is bullcrap and gives everyone in the business a bad name. As for the scratches... you do realize that you bought a 5-year old car, right? It's going to have scratches and dings.

It's unfortunate, but if you go in with the attitude you have now, your experience is only going to get worse.

I've been a car salesman/sales manager for 9 years. 90% of the people in the business are good and do it fairly. Unfortunately, ill informed customers make us all look bad.

You said that you were even on the trade and had great credit.... says who? If you are taking the NADA and KBB values then you aren't using anything close to real. Those are just feel good numbers. Keep in mind that there are retail numbers and trade-in/wholesale numbers. If you are planning on getting the full trade-in value, then plan on paying the full retail value for the car you're purchasing. The real value of a car is $1000-$2000 less than that. It's also location dependent. For instance, if you try trading in a 2WD truck or convertibel where I live, you might as well expect to take $3000-5000 less because we just don't want them because no one will buy them.

Secondly, just because you have a good credit score doesn't mean you are in a good situation to buy a car. There's more to it than that, i.e. Loan to Value, Payment to Income, Debt to Income, short credit history.

Customers that walk in, demand the best price for the vehicle, demand the best value for the trade-in at the lowest payment available and want it right now without giving any information usually get NONE of those and walk away even more pissed off than when they entered. The happiest customers understand that the dealership is in business to make money. Come in prepared with a good offer based on invoice/retail and a Manheim Auction report for the trade. They know what car they want and have been pre-approved by their own bank (not just driven by and read the rate painted on their credit union's window). Then they sit down and treat everyone with respect, go along with the process and are a little bit flexible. Those people are the customers the dealership will bend over backwards for during the transaction, after it and when you send your friends and family back in. Keep in mind that you aren't a customer until you've actually bought something, you're just another guy out kicking the tires.

You sound like a car salesmen.

1. I know my credit score. It's good because I know what the (edit) it is. Good. Very good in fact. I also am not worried about financing, I work for J.P Morgan Chase and can get financed and better rates than what a dealership can offer me most likely. That's a non-issue to me.

2. How am I unreasonable about the convertible top? I wasn't expecting it to be TAPED UP. That's unreasonable? How? Also, when they tell me virtually everything on a convertible top is covered under this extended warranty, but I find out NOTHING but the motor is covered, how am I being unreasonable?


As for the manheim price, I am well aware of it. I just looked at a 2009 370z on Manheim with an expected sell value of 23,500. It only has 21,000 miles on it. Yet this dealership wants to sell me a 2009 370z with 35,000 miles on it for 27,000 and won't negotiate any lower. That's fine, I'll take my business elsewhere, its just frustrating that car salesmen like you act like us customers are unreasonable when the salesman does everything in their power to mislead, confuse, waste time of and lie to the people buying the car.

And for the record, when I go into a dealership I am VERY nice. I am VERY respectful. To the point that I get ripped off like I did last time.

You make it seem like I'm the bad customer, but when your salesman tells you that he misplaced the keyless entry and his manager will get it for you on Monday and you never hear back from him, go back in and ask about it and they act like they don't know what you're talking about.... How am I being unreasonable? The dude straight up lied to me. Yet I'm the dick customer?

*edit* One last thing. The car was 2 1/2 years old when I purchased it. Sure not brand new, but the hood was scratched to (edit). Like someone took a key and drew big circles on it. I couldn't see it when I bought it because it was polished to hell. Sure, I should have looked REALLY REALLY close, but dude... I am a bit of a trusting guy. Lesson learned, don't trust slimy car salesmen.

 

[PhoKingGuy]

Here's what's frustrating. I found a few vehicles online that were within my price range but just a bit higher than I wanted to spend. Emailed a few of them telling them I was looking around and please let me know their best price they could offer. I get one email back that says this

"Sorry I have to pass the internet price is my best price"

Are you F'ing joking me? Do these people not want to sell a freaking car? REALLY? And these guys are 3 minutes from me. I'd buy this car TODAY if they gave me a good deal. I'm a really easy customer. I know exactly what I want I just want you to give me a good price.

This is pretty much why I didn't buy the 5.0 Mustang, I had agreed on a price and was quoted a ballpark lease payment range, then went I went to pick it up that all flew out the window. I packed up and told them to pound sand for wasting my time.

Contrast that with my experience with my BMW CA, walked in and had a quote for 500 under invoice in 15 minutes, most of which was spent looking for the specific 335i I wanted on the lot. The total buying process for the car was about 2 hours from walk in to drive off.

 

[smitbret]

You sound like a car salesmen.

1. I know my credit score. It's good because I know what the fuck it is. Good. Very good in fact. I also am not worried about financing, I work for J.P Morgan Chase and can get financed and better rates than what a dealership can offer me most likely. That's a non-issue to me.

2. How am I unreasonable about the convertible top? I wasn't expecting it to be TAPED UP. That's unreasonable? How? Also, when they tell me virtually everything on a convertible top is covered under this extended warranty, but I find out NOTHING but the motor is covered, how am I being unreasonable?


As for the manheim price, I am well aware of it. I just looked at a 2009 370z on Manheim with an expected sell value of 23,500. It only has 21,000 miles on it. Yet this dealership wants to sell me a 2009 370z with 35,000 miles on it for 27,000 and won't negotiate any lower. That's fine, I'll take my business elsewhere, its just frustrating that car salesmen like you act like us customers are unreasonable when the salesman does everything in their power to mislead, confuse, waste time of and lie to the people buying the car.

And for the record, when I go into a dealership I am VERY nice. I am VERY respectful. To the point that I get ripped off like I did last time.

You make it seem like I'm the bad customer, but when your salesman tells you that he misplaced the keyless entry and his manager will get it for you on Monday and you never hear back from him, go back in and ask about it and they act like they don't know what you're talking about.... How am I being unreasonable? The dude straight up lied to me. Yet I'm the dick customer?

*edit* One last thing. The car was 2 1/2 years old when I purchased it. Sure not brand new, but the hood was scratched to fuck. Like someone took a key and drew big circles on it. I couldn't see it when I bought it because it was polished to hell. Sure, I should have looked REALLY REALLY close, but dude... I am a bit of a trusting guy. Lesson learned, don't trust slimy car salesmen.

Wait a minute, you bought it 3 and a half years ago and NOW your pitching a fit about it?! Sorry buddy, something doesn't add up in your story.

The Manheim Auction Report gives values for vehicles being passed through the auctions nationwide and doesn't provide retail purchase estimates. WTF are you talking about?

If you'd actually read the post, credit score isn't the only thing. It's about 25% of the equation. If it wasn't an issue, why did you even bring it up.

I said the dealer was in the wrong about the convertible top....... But then you inform me that you bought the car three and a half years before you decided to complain about it. Now I'm not sure if you're even telling the truth. If I were a betting man, the F&I manager told you tjhat everything was covered, then, you got some holes/wear in your convertible top. When you went to get it repaired under warranty they told you it didn't cover wear and tear so now you're all bent out of shape cuz you abused your car and you can't get someone else to pay for it.

Yep, you are exactly the kind of customer that no dealership wants. Uninformed, yet rambling on like you know everything about things you know very little of. Absent of any personal reponsbility. Unreasonable expectations. Good luck, my money says it'll be a long time before you're happy wth any car you buy.

 

[kornphlake]

Not to insult the used car salesman, but yes a salesman will say anything to sell a car, that's something you have to understand before you set foot on a lot. He'll say it has AWD if it's 2wd, he'll say it's got AC even if it doesn't, he'll say the shop will repair any damage before you drive home, the salesman will say anything to get you to linger on the lot, he's always got a list of excuses too, oh that was the other car the same year and color that had AWD, I thought AC was a standard option for this model... Every car on the lot is perfect in his eyes, every car on the lot has all the options you want in his eyes... [edit]to be fair, a salesman can't be expected to know every detail about every car on the lot, that's somewhat unreasonable[/edit] You can't trust a salesman, or finance manager, or the guy wearing the nice suit in a glass cubicle who wants to be your best friend, you have to read everything, even the fine print, if something was promised but not written down, it wasn't promised, if you drove the car home with damage and missing keys, you bought a car with damage and without keys. The OP has every right to be upset, but IMHO, the OP made a series of mistakes and rushed to sign a deal, yeah it sucks you can't trust people, but everybody knows a car salesman is the last person you should trust.

OP, consider this an expensive and frustrating lesson and move on, you can play numbers games all day long, but if a dealership doesn't want to sell at the price you want they aren't going to sell. Don't buy extended warranties anymore either.

 

[Cuda1447]

Wait a minute, you bought it 3 and a half years ago and NOW your pitching a fit about it?! Sorry buddy, something doesn't add up in your story.

The Manheim Auction Report gives values for vehicles being passed through the auctions nationwide and doesn't provide retail purchase estimates. WTF are you talking about?

If you'd actually read the post, credit score isn't the only thing. It's about 25% of the equation. If it wasn't an issue, why did you even bring it up.

I said the dealer was in the wrong about the convertible top....... But then you inform me that you bought the car three and a half years before you decided to complain about it. Now I'm not sure if you're even telling the truth. If I were a betting man, the F&I manager told you tjhat everything was covered, then, you got some holes/wear in your convertible top. When you went to get it repaired under warranty they told you it didn't cover wear and tear so now you're all bent out of shape cuz you abused your car and you can't get someone else to pay for it.

Yep, you are exactly the kind of customer that no dealership wants. Uninformed, yet rambling on like you know everything about things you know very little of. Absent of any personal reponsbility. Unreasonable expectations. Good luck, my money says it'll be a long time before you're happy wth any car you buy.

Clearly you don't understand anything. Let me make it real clear for you.

I bought the car about 1 1/2 years ago. It was used, approximately 2 years when I bought it. So the car now is about 3 1/2 years old, but I've only had it 1 1/2 years. The extended warranty I purchased is for 3 years, so I have plenty of time left on it.

The convertible top does have small holes on it, which have ALWAYS been there but were covered up by tap by the shady car salesmen like yourself. The problem though, is the convertible top no longer goes down. That would happen whether or not there were holes in the top. THAT is what I'm pissed isn't covered. It doesn't matter if rats chrewed threw the damn top, the bars and mechanics of it don't work anymore. What I'm being told now though is that the ONLY thing covered on convertible tops is the motor, when at the time of sale the dealership told me everything but normal wear and tear is covered. I understand the holes aren't covered. I never expected them to be. That's fine. But I expect the damn top to go up and down properly.

As for finance, I didn't bring it up. You did. I also realize credit score isn't the only thing that goes into financing. I don't really even know why you came to the conclusion that I'm not capable of financing a car? You are just assuming crazy shit. I never let them run my credit as I'm not going to waste my time pinging my credit until I have a ballpark price on a vehicle. That's not that freaking difficult. But some of you guys make it a damned chore.

 

[Cuda1447]

Not to insult the used car salesman, but yes a salesman will say anything to sell a car, that's something you have to understand before you set foot on a lot. He'll say it has AWD if it's 2wd, he'll say it's got AC even if it doesn't, he'll say the shop will repair any damage before you drive home, the salesman will say anything to get you to linger on the lot, he's always got a list of excuses too, oh that was the other car the same year and color that had AWD, I thought AC was a standard option for this model... Every car on the lot is perfect in his eyes, every car on the lot has all the options you want in his eyes... [edit]to be fair, a salesman can't be expected to know every detail about every car on the lot, that's somewhat unreasonable[/edit] You can't trust a salesman, or finance manager, or the guy wearing the nice suit in a glass cubicle who wants to be your best friend, you have to read everything, even the fine print, if something was promised but not written down, it wasn't promised, if you drove the car home with damage and missing keys, you bought a car with damage and without keys. The OP has every right to be upset, but IMHO, the OP made a series of mistakes and rushed to sign a deal, yeah it sucks you can't trust people, but everybody knows a car salesman is the last person you should trust.

OP, consider this an expensive and frustrating lesson and move on, you can play numbers games all day long, but if a dealership doesn't want to sell at the price you want they aren't going to sell. Don't buy extended warranties anymore either.

I basically agree with everything you just said. I realize I made HUGE mistakes. The first of which was being FAR to trusting. I figured a dealership that we had bought cars from previously and would continue buying cars from would treat us in an honest and fair way. I'll never make that mistake again.

That said... everything the dealerships have done have been shady as hell and far from honest and fair. It's pretty ridiculous really and there is a reason car salesmen have a bad name... its because a lot of them are straight up liars and cheats.

 

[KentState]

Car salesmen are like Best Buy employees. They don't know anything about their product, they lie and then try to sell you stuff that isn't necessary. Then when it comes to the service department, you have to play the "game" of seeing if they can fix what you already know is wrong. That being said, you have to fully research and understand what you are getting into because no one at the dealership is on your side.

 

[Cuda1447]

Car salesmen are like Best Buy employees. They don't know anything about their product, they lie and then try to sell you stuff that isn't necessary. Then when it comes to the service department, you have to play the "game" of seeing if they can fix what you already know is wrong. That being said, you have to fully research and understand what you are getting into because no one at the dealership is on your side.

So.... let's go over a couple things then. Let's find out what I know and what I still need to learn before buying my next car (hopefully soon). Please anyone feel free to correct me on anything I may not be understanding fully.


1. Secure financing outside of the dealership.

2. Don't let them know you are trading in a vehicle until you have agreed on price on the new/used car you are buying, then go from there.

3. Know exactly what you want in a car and how much it is going for at various sites/dealerships. I'll be in armed with all the prices of similar vehicles online at other dealerships. I will also be aware of KBB and NADA values as well as Manheim auction prices.

4. Don't tell them what I want my monthly payments to be. That is none of their concern. All I am negotiating is the price of the vehicle, plain and simple. I'll calculate the monthly payments myself, based on what my interest rate is with the loan I have secured outside of them.


5. Don't be in a hurry or emotional.

6. Don't buy extended warranties, at all. I can probably get those from an outside source if I wanted.


What else? Here are a few questions, maybe some of you can answer/offer insight into.


1. When you see internet pricing, often times they will say their internet price is the lowest they can do. How true is this? I suspect not true at all. I understand car buyers are much more informed now, so I'd imagine to compensate for this all prices have been marked up and the old price they used to advertise in newspapers etc... is probably now the internet price, and everything else has gone up to compensate for the savvy buyer. But I would appreciate some insight in this.


2. If I know a car has been on a lot for a long time, the dealership should be much more willing to negotiate a better price, no? How long is considered a long time? Month? 3 months? 6 months?

3. Is a certain time of day/week/month really that advantageous for negotiating? End of month? Tuesday evenings? December?

4. When negotiating, why are they always insistent on getting your drivers license and information? I mean, apart from obvious advertising reasons, is there any reason for them to have my ID etc... prior to negotiating price of a vehicle? All this process seems to do is slow us down significantly and waste my time. Is there a reason I'm missing for them needing this?

5. Will update more questions as I think of them.

 

[satyajitmenon]

1. When you see internet pricing, often times they will say their internet price is the lowest they can do. How true is this? I suspect not true at all. I understand car buyers are much more informed now, so I'd imagine to compensate for this all prices have been marked up and the old price they used to advertise in newspapers etc... is probably now the internet price, and everything else has gone up to compensate for the savvy buyer. But I would appreciate some insight in this.

It depends. I've seen some places stick to their guns on internet pricing, and others come down further once you're in their shop negotiating.

You're not likely to see them give you a better price than their internet price if you just call them. They're willing to negotiate - but only if they can see you're serious about buying the car. Like today, right now. Otherwise, you're just another tire kicker and they don't want to waste any time with you.

As much as this thread has been about car salesmen being complete douchebags, that generalisation can be applied to almost every profession (well, except hookers 😛 ). I know several car "salesmen" who are very good. They take their job seriously, but they also enjoy their work and are car enthusiasts.

Heck, there was this one guy I knew who had a barbeque at his used car shop every month and would invite his customers to drop in for some bbq and beer. In fact, his prices were a little higher than across the street - but people kept coming back to him cos he was honest and a genuinely nice guy. End of the day, you've got to remember that the guy at the other end of the table has to make money on the deal too.

If you can secure your own financing, then perhaps you should seriously look at private sellers. Not just on autotrader, but also on online forums. The advantage is that you can look up the sellers posts on the forum to see if he was a conscientious owner who took care of his pride and joy. Or if he was a jackass and boasted about dropping the clutch at 5k rpm every other day. 😀

Edit: P.S. If you're having trouble finding a good car around where you live, try expanding the search region a bit. If you find something you like up here in JAX, and want someone to give it a quick look before you drive up to negotiate/buy, I'd be happy to help.