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Car safety question

Q

Qacer

Platinum Member
Hey all,

I'm in the market for a Toyota Corolla. I was shopping around and asking for quotes. A dealer told me the following:

* side & curtain airbags are not compatible with the sun roof
* ABS is not necessary because most Corolla's have the Electronic Brake Assist feature

Are any of those statements true? I'm especially curious about the sun roof and airbag portion. I went to Toyota and saw that the sun roof option include the side & curtain airbags. Hmmm..

Thanks!

 
1. He may or may not be right about the side curtain airbags. It will vary from model to model.

I used to work for Toyota...

The dealers get cars the way the factory allocates them to them. They don't get to pick and choose cars with specific options. For example when I got my 97 Tacoma I wanted a stick with a full gauge package and factory cruise control. The local dealer told me it wasn't possible. I did a little research and found one setup exactly like I wanted at another dealer. I then had my local dealer do a trade and got the truck I wanted. If Toyota says the car can come with side curtains and a sun roof, then that should be correct. The trick is to find a dealer willing to search and trade with other dealers to find the color and build package you are looking for.

2. ABS may not be "necessary", but it is ALWAYS better to have it than to not under all conditions (dry, wet, snow, ice, etc, etc). A computer will ALWAYS beat a human when it comes to brake modulation and keeping the wheels from locking up. Sure a lot of race car drivers will hate on ABS, because they rely on wheel lock/spin/slip to do the magic they do, but most of the rest of us are not race car drivers and on the street you want as much of an edge as you can get when safety is involved.
 
Originally posted by: ValValline
A computer will ALWAYS beat a human when it comes to brake modulation and keeping the wheels from locking up. Sure a lot of race car drivers will hate on ABS, because they rely on wheel lock/spin/slip to do the magic they do, but most of the rest of us are not race car drivers and on the street you want as much of an edge as you can get when safety is involved.
Click to expand...

IIRC F1 cars used to have ABS but it was banned in order to make the sport more exciting to watch. Even when you're a super-duper pro driver, ABS is still well handy. Locking wheels on a race car gives you flat spots (car vibrates like a beeyach) and prematurely wears out tyres, which is never good.
Power sliding/sideways drift is a whole other case, however.
 
Originally posted by: ValValline
1. He may or may not be right about the side curtain airbags. It will vary from model to model.

I used to work for Toyota...
<snip>...
Click to expand...


Thanks for the tip! I'm actually using Toyota.com to search the inventories of the local dealers. As for dealer-to-dealer trade, I never thought of it. Maybe I can find the same car from another state at a lower price and just get them to ship it to a dealer. Is this possible?



 
Originally posted by: ValValline
1. He may or may not be right about the side curtain airbags. It will vary from model to model.

I used to work for Toyota...

The dealers get cars the way the factory allocates them to them. They don't get to pick and choose cars with specific options. For example when I got my 97 Tacoma I wanted a stick with a full gauge package and factory cruise control. The local dealer told me it wasn't possible. I did a little research and found one setup exactly like I wanted at another dealer. I then had my local dealer do a trade and got the truck I wanted. If Toyota says the car can come with side curtains and a sun roof, then that should be correct. The trick is to find a dealer willing to search and trade with other dealers to find the color and build package you are looking for.

Is that only for Toyota or generally like this in the US?
Because when you buy a new car here it is usually built for you and has exactly the options you want (at least for german manufacturers) - maybe that is the reason our cars are quite stripped down and the options lists are endless.
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by: B00ne
Originally posted by: ValValline
1. He may or may not be right about the side curtain airbags. It will vary from model to model.

I used to work for Toyota...

The dealers get cars the way the factory allocates them to them. They don't get to pick and choose cars with specific options. For example when I got my 97 Tacoma I wanted a stick with a full gauge package and factory cruise control. The local dealer told me it wasn't possible. I did a little research and found one setup exactly like I wanted at another dealer. I then had my local dealer do a trade and got the truck I wanted. If Toyota says the car can come with side curtains and a sun roof, then that should be correct. The trick is to find a dealer willing to search and trade with other dealers to find the color and build package you are looking for.

Is that only for Toyota or generally like this in the US?
Because when you buy a new car here it is usually built for you and has exactly the options you want (at least for german manufacturers) - maybe that is the reason our cars are quite stripped down and the options lists are endless.
Click to expand...

It depends if you want to order a car, the car company (I.e. Honda has almost no options on most of their cars) and the dealership itself.
Click to expand...
 
If you live in Florida I don't see the need for ABS... rain isn't that big of a deal. If it snowed where you live that's another story.
 
ABS isn't necessary... I haven't driven with it for the past 4 winters (MI winters)... It's not necessary if you put yourself in a position where you won't need it. (such as don't tailgate in bad weather... give yourself enough room to stop at stoplights...) While there are unforeseen circumstances, there is the old pump your breaks method.
 
Originally posted by: Qacer

Thanks for the tip! I'm actually using Toyota.com to search the inventories of the local dealers. As for dealer-to-dealer trade, I never thought of it. Maybe I can find the same car from another state at a lower price and just get them to ship it to a dealer. Is this possible?
Click to expand...

I am not sure about state to state trades. It may be possible, but you would have huge hassles with taxes and possible emissions regulations.

When it comes to price, doing a dealer trade usually costs you more, because the dealer has to pay a driver to transport the car/truck and he isn't selling a car on his lot.

Dealers have to pay a finance charge to the bank for every car sitting on thier lot.

It works like this....

1. Dealer orders a car from the factory
2. The factory sells the car to the dealership
3. The dealership finances the car through a bank (the factory gets paid no matter what)
4. The dealer pays finance charges as long as it sits on the lot unsold

The longer the car sits on the lot the better the deal you can make because the dealer is losing money every day it sits.

When you do a dealer trade, IF (and it's a big if) the dealer can trade a car that has been sitting on his lot a long time for the one you want, then you can still make a good deal. But since a car that has sat is usually unwanted (color, package, etc) can't be traded and the other dealer will want a more popular one, you won't get a good deal, because you are not taking a car that is already in the dealers inventory and costing him finance charges.

The bottom line is that you can either negotiate a great deal on a car that isn't exactly like you want it, or trade knowing that you will pay a bit more for exactly what you want.

 
Originally posted by: B00ne
Is that only for Toyota or generally like this in the US?
Because when you buy a new car here it is usually built for you and has exactly the options you want (at least for german manufacturers) - maybe that is the reason our cars are quite stripped down and the options lists are endless.
Click to expand...

It's been about 7 years since I worked for Toyota, so maybe things have changed, but this is how it was back then...

1. Toyota of North America decides what cars they want to sell in the US and the mix of options, packages, colors, etc, etc
2. Toyota of North America places an order with Toyota of Japan
3. Toyota of Japan fills the order and builds/ships cars to the US distribution centers
4. Dealers are allocated cars based on how many they are expected to sell and their market needs. For example Longo Toyota in Southern California sells so many cars they get just about anything they want (as long as it is built that way to begin with), and dealerships on the east coast get fewer cars with leather interiors, because leather is harder to sell in colder climates.

No one was able to custom order cars from the factory with the colors, options, etc like you can with other brands.

Here is another intersting factoid....

Lexus (which is really Toyota) base priced the 1997 ES300 at something like $29,995. This was with a cloth interior, no moon-roof, and basically no options. Only 2 cars were built this way and shipped to the US. This was done for marketing reasons, because all of the other ES300s (with leather and all the other bells and whistles) started at $33K and went up. The average car stickered for for $36k

 
The side airbags have some of their mechanics in the roof. That could be why they are not compatible. In my SUV I coudl either have a sunroof or the rear air conditioning controls. Coudln't have both because the wiring for the controls and the DVD system go right where the sunroof would be.

And my Durango has ABS on the rea wheels only. Still don't know wtf that means I'm supposed to do in a skid situation. pump or not? heh. Whoever the idiot is that came up with that one.
 
Originally posted by: B00ne
Originally posted by: ValValline
1. He may or may not be right about the side curtain airbags. It will vary from model to model.

I used to work for Toyota...

The dealers get cars the way the factory allocates them to them. They don't get to pick and choose cars with specific options. For example when I got my 97 Tacoma I wanted a stick with a full gauge package and factory cruise control. The local dealer told me it wasn't possible. I did a little research and found one setup exactly like I wanted at another dealer. I then had my local dealer do a trade and got the truck I wanted. If Toyota says the car can come with side curtains and a sun roof, then that should be correct. The trick is to find a dealer willing to search and trade with other dealers to find the color and build package you are looking for.

Is that only for Toyota or generally like this in the US?
Because when you buy a new car here it is usually built for you and has exactly the options you want (at least for german manufacturers) - maybe that is the reason our cars are quite stripped down and the options lists are endless.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure about Toyota specifically, but that's an overview of how the car market works in this country. From what I've read, in Europe customers go to the dealers and custom order their cars and pick them up later once they arrive. The American public isn't that patient and prefers to go to the dealer and walk out with the car that they want. Therefore, the dealers simply stock cars with the most popular option packages.

You can still order a car with the options that you want, with most manufacturers, but the wait time is anywhere from 2-4 months until the car arrives. It's just not a standard practice.
Click to expand...
 
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