Car repairs are getting more frequent...

[AMCRambler]

Seems like every couple of weeks I'm making repairs to my car lately. I think it may have hit that age/mileage where it's going to be more economical to replace it rather than keep repairing. It is a 2000 Ford Contour SVT.

Here's a list of the recent repairs:

-Brakes/rotors: Replaced all pads and rear rotors beginning of March
-Alignment: Took car for an alignment due to pull in steering when braking, February
-Lower control arms and ball joints: Pulling problem turned out to be a shredded bushing on the left front LCA. I replaced both front LCA's which included new ball joints mid April and got the car aligned again
-Fuel tank straps: One of the straps that holds the gas tank in the car rusted through and broke last week. Thank god the other strap held and my GF noticed the broken strap hanging down. Car's at the dealership getting two new straps put on as I type.

I try to take good care of my car when I have the time to spend on it. I try to do most repairs myself if I have the tools and it's within my ability to do so. I've done the brakes, stabilizer bar bushings and endlinks, alternator, water pump and belts myself among other regular maintenance like oil changes, brake fluid and coolant flushes. So I can't say it's poor maintenance. It's just getting old. 8 years for a car and things start getting rusty and worn out. It will probably need a new clutch soon as well since I'm at 105,000 on the original.

Long story short, I think it's time to do some car shopping and sell the Ford.

 

[ViviTheMage]

Thats nothing!

but if you are having rust issues, I would get rid of it.

 

[sjwaste]

brakes, rotors, and alignment are routine maintenance. bushings and the gas tank strap definitely suck, but they happen.

unless its rusting out, its always cheaper to fix what you've got.

 

[ViviTheMage]

Originally posted by: sjwaste
brakes, rotors, and alignment are routine maintenance. bushings and the gas tank strap definitely suck, but they happen.

unless its rusting out, its always cheaper to fix what you've got.

I have to agree. As I have been in your same shoes regarding my 01 Jetta...has no rust issues, I have babied it mehcanically. I have had it over a year now, and have put about 4000$ worth of maint in it. 2k I knew about, 2000 has just come up now...clutch...rear end work.

 

[AMCRambler]

Yeah it's definitely got some rust issues showing up. Besides the tank straps (gonna cost about $400-500 to replace those cuz the straps are only available from Ford), I think I've got drainage issues with my driver side door that's causing it to rust from inside out. When it rains I get a wet spot on the carpet inside and I think my door drain is either clogged or I screwed up the weather stripping when I pulled the door skin off a couple years ago to replace a blown speaker. Just haven't had the time to tear into that issue since I've noticed it and I think it may be starting to come through the paint on the outside of the door. Other issues the car has right now is that it's going to need new tires before the next inspection in 2009. Driving with bad ball joints resulted in bald tires on the inside tread of the tires. The exhaust seems to be getting a little loud so I may have some holes in that that will need a patch or exhaust replacement. Also every now and then I get a whiff of that catalytic sulphur smell so maybe it's the cat that's leaking(more money). Then there's also the clutch which I know is coming and I will probably take that to a shop to be done.

When you start adding it all up it starts getting close to costing more than the car is worth to keep it.

$1000 Clutch + install
$600 Tires + mounting/balancing
$800-1000 for exhaust & catalytic converter
$200 for LCA's and ball joints + my time to replace them
$500 for gas tank straps + install

$3100-3300 for a car that's only worth $4,500 max right now. And doesn't include anything unexpected going bad on me down the road.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Contour. It's fun to drive and has never left me stranded in the middle of nowhere. But I think the law of diminishing returns is beginning to apply here. Since it's my only daily driver, I need to get something a little newer where things won't be failing left and right. Also I keep having to borrow my pops truck to get to work and his garage to work on it all the time.

 

[ViviTheMage]

I know what you mean, granted I have a local guy who does my work for relativly cheap labor. I dont have the time, nor the place to house a job like a clutch, even doing my own rear pads/rotors is tough.

Ever check a junkyard for those straps? New tires shouldnt cost all that much, I got a set of 4 BF Goodrich traction T/As for 380 or so after tax + lifetime wheel balancing and rotation at discount tires.

As for the exhaust--depending on the issue, you could just get the 'spots' welded up, but that really depends on the issue.

found my thread :

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2193821&enterthread=y

 

[Scouzer]

My 2006 Pontiac G5 GT has been to the dealer 15 times + about 5 oil changes elsewhere in less than 2 years. I'd agree with the thread title.

 

[Zenmervolt]

I see only one repair in that entire list: the fuel tank straps.

All of the rest are expected wear items for an 8 year old car. Those are maintenance. They are no more "repairs" than an oil change is.

As others have said, if the car is paid off and does not have structural rust, it is almost always less expensive to keep fixing it than to buy a new car.

ZV

 

[AMCRambler]

I called a bunch of junk yards the very next day after we noticed the broken one. None of them had the straps and after a few one of the fellas told me why. When they bring the cars into the yards, they strip them down and drain all the fluids and anything else that can't be leaking out on the ground. Rather than monkey with the bolts on those straps, they just cut them right off. So no luck there. Advance Auto has some universal ones that I was going to go buy but then I tried getting in there to get the broken strap off and ran into some issues. I couldn't just unbolt the one strap and replace it because where the strap is attached in the rear goes between the tank and the rear subframe crossmember. There was about a half inch gap between the two. That's when I realized I'd have to unbolt the other strap, slide the whole fuel tank forward a few inches to get in there and install the new strap. Problem was the tank was 3/4 full of gas and I had no where to put it even if I did siphon it out. The prospects of jockeying around a nearly full gas tank sitting on a floor jack did not seem too good. Anyway, junk yard was a good thought.

Yeah I'm probably over estimating on the tires a bit. I can get a set off tire rack for 80 a piece. Last time I bought tires I went for a set with a good rating for all season since I don't have a spare set of rims for snows and I don't want to mess around with changing them out. They ended up running me 120 a piece. or there abouts plus shipping.

I'm not broke though. I can afford to get a new/used car. I was just waiting until it made sense to do it. I don't like to spend money needlessly. I'm considering getting an '06 GTO cuz I'm a horsepower junkie and I know if it has a problem I can work on it myself. European cars with the same performance are more expensive, parts are expensive and require different tools. Some of the Japanese cars are looking pretty hot though too. The G-35 coupe is sweet. I also like the design of the 08 Altima Coupe, but since it's newer it will cost more. The new Pontiac G-8 is hot too, but a bit pricey.

 

[AMCRambler]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
I see only one repair in that entire list: the fuel tank straps.

All of the rest are expected wear items for an 8 year old car. Those are maintenance. They are no more "repairs" than an oil change is.

As others have said, if the car is paid off and does not have structural rust, it is almost always less expensive to keep fixing it than to buy a new car.

ZV

I guess you can look at them as standard maintenance for a car of that mileage. You also need to consider that the cost of those repairs is avoided by selling the car before it gets to that point. So standard maintenance if you plan on keeping a car until 150,000 miles. Those are just the fixes I've had to make so far this year. In the four years I've owned it it's also eaten a fuel pump, backup light switch, and alternator among other things. The frequency of those repairs were much more spread out and that was fine. It seems like 105,000 miles is rapidly becoming the catastrophic failure point for any and all parts that wear on my car, lol.

What I am getting at is there comes a point where the inconvenience of dealing with a high mileage vehicles "standard maintenance" and the costs associated with that maintenance starts to outweigh the cost of purchasing a new vehicle. It's subjective of course. The value you place on having a reliable vehicle that you aren't fixing every month is different than the value I would have for the same vehicle.

Dealing with making arrangements for getting repairs made by a shop, ordering parts and spending the time doing the repairs yourself as well as finding a place to do the repairs (I live in an apartment and I can't be taking the car apart in the parking lot) is quite a hassle. If I didn't have the cash for a new car then keeping this one for longer would make sense. I actually enjoy working on cars but when there's the deadline attached of getting it fixed before Monday so that you're not missing work, that takes the fun out of it.

 

[Vette73]

I agree with ZV and others.


Also $500 for some gas tank straps?!?! Should just be a peice of metal with a couple holes for bolts in it. How is that $500?

 

[JulesMaximus]

Those Contours were not built to last. A friend of mine had one and that thing was a pile of junk by the time he got rid of it. Try finding one that the dash hasn't peeled back on too...it's impossible.

 

[AMCRambler]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
I agree with ZV and others.


Also $500 for some gas tank straps?!?! Should just be a peice of metal with a couple holes for bolts in it. How is that $500?

Yeah I hear you. That's all the damn things are. I was going to make my own from a metal strap from Home Depot but then I got under the car and saw what I'd be dealing with to get it on there.

They're so expensive because they're a dealer only part. Nobody makes an aftermarket one. Here's a link to the parts if you don't believe me.. It's about $300 for the parts and another $150-200 for the labor to install.
I could have had them just replace the one. When I asked him how the other one looked he said about the same as the busted one corrosion wise. So rather than bring the car back in 2 weeks when the other snapped I had them get both.

Oh yeah the dashboard peel. Haha! The rubber or whatever it is dries out and shrinks. Mine is pretty good overall. Just a small spot on the side down where it meets the door has shrunk and is peeling back. It is loose up on top though, like it's come unglued up near the windshield. Ford had some crappy interiors back then.

 

[f1r3s1d3]

I think the whiff of the cat smell is normal after you drive it hard, I get that sometimes in my '97 Altima after some "spirited driving" then coming to a stop. My exhaust system is new from the exhaust manifold back (cat, resonators, piping, muffler, etc). I think its just cause the EGT's shoot up sky high while driving it hard.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: AMCRambler

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
I agree with ZV and others.


Also $500 for some gas tank straps?!?! Should just be a peice of metal with a couple holes for bolts in it. How is that $500?

Yeah I hear you. That's all the damn things are. I was going to make my own from a metal strap from Home Depot but then I got under the car and saw what I'd be dealing with to get it on there.

They're so expensive because they're a dealer only part. Nobody makes an aftermarket one. Here's a link to the parts if you don't believe me.. It's about $300 for the parts and another $150-200 for the labor to install.
I could have had them just replace the one. When I asked him how the other one looked he said about the same as the busted one corrosion wise. So rather than bring the car back in 2 weeks when the other snapped I had them get both.

Oh yeah the dashboard peel. Haha! The rubber or whatever it is dries out and shrinks. Mine is pretty good overall. Just a small spot on the side down where it meets the door has shrunk and is peeling back. It is loose up on top though, like it's come unglued up near the windshield. Ford had some crappy interiors back then.

Not to be the one of bad news, but www.rockauto.com sells the straps for $28 and shipping. But you can get a 5% off coupon at fatwallet

 

[LuckyTaxi]

ah thats nothing. i just spent $2000 on my lexus and i only had a few routine things done. imagine if i had serious issues like with the engine or something.
i would take replacing a brake pad or control arm over a alternator ($400 w/ labor).

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: AMCRambler

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
I see only one repair in that entire list: the fuel tank straps.

All of the rest are expected wear items for an 8 year old car. Those are maintenance. They are no more "repairs" than an oil change is.

As others have said, if the car is paid off and does not have structural rust, it is almost always less expensive to keep fixing it than to buy a new car.

ZV

I guess you can look at them as standard maintenance for a car of that mileage. You also need to consider that the cost of those repairs is avoided by selling the car before it gets to that point. So standard maintenance if you plan on keeping a car until 150,000 miles. Those are just the fixes I've had to make so far this year. In the four years I've owned it it's also eaten a fuel pump, backup light switch, and alternator among other things. The frequency of those repairs were much more spread out and that was fine. It seems like 105,000 miles is rapidly becoming the catastrophic failure point for any and all parts that wear on my car, lol.

What I am getting at is there comes a point where the inconvenience of dealing with a high mileage vehicles "standard maintenance" and the costs associated with that maintenance starts to outweigh the cost of purchasing a new vehicle. It's subjective of course. The value you place on having a reliable vehicle that you aren't fixing every month is different than the value I would have for the same vehicle.

Dealing with making arrangements for getting repairs made by a shop, ordering parts and spending the time doing the repairs yourself as well as finding a place to do the repairs (I live in an apartment and I can't be taking the car apart in the parking lot) is quite a hassle. If I didn't have the cash for a new car then keeping this one for longer would make sense. I actually enjoy working on cars but when there's the deadline attached of getting it fixed before Monday so that you're not missing work, that takes the fun out of it.

OK, fuel pump, backup switch, and alternator should all definitely last more than 100,000 miles. Those I would classify as repairs.

Still, one thing that I see a lot is people dumping a few thousand in repairs for exactly these things then deciding that they are done with spending money on the car. Almost invariably, the person who buys the car then has a car that doesn't have anything go wrong with it for the next 50,000+ miles. Much like the stock market, people tend to get out of a car too late and very often end up having already fixed everything that's apt to go wrong in the foreseeable future.

ZV

 

[AMCRambler]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: AMCRambler

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
I see only one repair in that entire list: the fuel tank straps.

All of the rest are expected wear items for an 8 year old car. Those are maintenance. They are no more "repairs" than an oil change is.

As others have said, if the car is paid off and does not have structural rust, it is almost always less expensive to keep fixing it than to buy a new car.

ZV

I guess you can look at them as standard maintenance for a car of that mileage. You also need to consider that the cost of those repairs is avoided by selling the car before it gets to that point. So standard maintenance if you plan on keeping a car until 150,000 miles. Those are just the fixes I've had to make so far this year. In the four years I've owned it it's also eaten a fuel pump, backup light switch, and alternator among other things. The frequency of those repairs were much more spread out and that was fine. It seems like 105,000 miles is rapidly becoming the catastrophic failure point for any and all parts that wear on my car, lol.

What I am getting at is there comes a point where the inconvenience of dealing with a high mileage vehicles "standard maintenance" and the costs associated with that maintenance starts to outweigh the cost of purchasing a new vehicle. It's subjective of course. The value you place on having a reliable vehicle that you aren't fixing every month is different than the value I would have for the same vehicle.

Dealing with making arrangements for getting repairs made by a shop, ordering parts and spending the time doing the repairs yourself as well as finding a place to do the repairs (I live in an apartment and I can't be taking the car apart in the parking lot) is quite a hassle. If I didn't have the cash for a new car then keeping this one for longer would make sense. I actually enjoy working on cars but when there's the deadline attached of getting it fixed before Monday so that you're not missing work, that takes the fun out of it.

OK, fuel pump, backup switch, and alternator should all definitely last more than 100,000 miles. Those I would classify as repairs.

Still, one thing that I see a lot is people dumping a few thousand in repairs for exactly these things then deciding that they are done with spending money on the car. Almost invariably, the person who buys the car then has a car that doesn't have anything go wrong with it for the next 50,000+ miles. Much like the stock market, people tend to get out of a car too late and very often end up having already fixed everything that's apt to go wrong in the foreseeable future.

ZV

I absolutely agree. I've been able to keep my costs down by doing as many of the fixes myself as possible, but it is starting to add up. It's definitely not going to be good for the next 50,000 miles and will likely need a clutch and new tires. Problem with figuring out when it's time to sell the car is you never know what's going to break next. It's all a guessing game about when it's time to sell the car.
It is my only car so I have to keep it on the road until I find a replacement. My options were to hope the other tank strap did not fail and drive it until I found a new car or get it fixed and not have to worry about the gas tank dropping out of the bottom of the car and costing me even more in repairs.
Now when I sell it I can do so with a clean conscience too. I wouldn't want to sell a car to someone, have them drive it out of my driveway and the gas tank drops out of it! At the very least I would let them know the major issue the car had.

 

[AMCRambler]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: AMCRambler

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
I agree with ZV and others.


Also $500 for some gas tank straps?!?! Should just be a peice of metal with a couple holes for bolts in it. How is that $500?

Yeah I hear you. That's all the damn things are. I was going to make my own from a metal strap from Home Depot but then I got under the car and saw what I'd be dealing with to get it on there.

They're so expensive because they're a dealer only part. Nobody makes an aftermarket one. Here's a link to the parts if you don't believe me.. It's about $300 for the parts and another $150-200 for the labor to install.
I could have had them just replace the one. When I asked him how the other one looked he said about the same as the busted one corrosion wise. So rather than bring the car back in 2 weeks when the other snapped I had them get both.

Oh yeah the dashboard peel. Haha! The rubber or whatever it is dries out and shrinks. Mine is pretty good overall. Just a small spot on the side down where it meets the door has shrunk and is peeling back. It is loose up on top though, like it's come unglued up near the windshield. Ford had some crappy interiors back then.

Not to be the one of bad news, but www.rockauto.com sells the straps for $28 and shipping. But you can get a 5% off coupon at fatwallet

Awww crap.

I never checked Rockauto. Good call Marlin. Those are the straps. If I had found those I would have ordered them suckers up and just taken the car to a garage as opposed to the stealership and had them put on. Darnit.

You can see from the little pic that one end has a t shaped end on it and the other has a bolt. That t-shape fits into a slot on the body of the car and you turn the strap sideways once you have it so it stays. The other end bolts to the body. Because of the clearance issue, I did not have enough space to turn the strap sideways to get the broken one out and the new one in. Would have had to unbolt the other strap and had the gas tank totally loose with the 8 gallons of gas still in there since I have no pump to get the gas out.

 

[alkemyst]

stuff above seems high....what's causing all the rust though?

I don't get the LCA's though....how many miles? Age doesn't mean much.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: alkemyst
stuff above seems high....what's causing all the rust though?

I'm going to guess winter road salt since he's in NY state. Not everyone lives in Florida.

EDIT: LCAs probably have integral ball joints that cannot be replaced without replacing the entire LCA. Road salt is also very hard on rubber jackets and bushings around suspension joints.

ZV

 

[getbush]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: alkemyst
stuff above seems high....what's causing all the rust though?

I'm going to guess winter road salt since he's in NY state. Not everyone lives in Florida.
ZV

LOL no kidding. Come and look underneath every car/truck in Michigan that's seen a couple winters. You'll crap your pants

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: alkemyst
stuff above seems high....what's causing all the rust though?

I'm going to guess winter road salt since he's in NY state. Not everyone lives in Florida.

EDIT: LCAs probably have integral ball joints that cannot be replaced without replacing the entire LCA. Road salt is also very hard on rubber jackets and bushings around suspension joints.

ZV

no shit sherlock...still he seems to be really affected by it. He says it's not neglect, but I am willing to bet he has never cleaned his undercarriage.

*edit*: BTW here in Florida if you live by the beach you need to rinse your car down regularly if you don't want corrosion. Wind + salt water + scorching sun is bad for your metals.

 

[StageLeft]

$600 Tires + mounting/balancing

$600. WTF. tirerack.com ftw.

Nothing you've mentioned makes me think a new car would have a lower total cost of ownership.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: alkemyst
stuff above seems high....what's causing all the rust though?

I'm going to guess winter road salt since he's in NY state. Not everyone lives in Florida.

EDIT: LCAs probably have integral ball joints that cannot be replaced without replacing the entire LCA. Road salt is also very hard on rubber jackets and bushings around suspension joints.

ZV

no shit sherlock...still he seems to be really affected by it. He says it's not neglect, but I am willing to bet he has never cleaned his undercarriage.

*edit*: BTW here in Florida if you live by the beach you need to rinse your car down regularly if you don't want corrosion. Wind + salt water + scorching sun is bad for your metals.

Sorry, but a person would have to be an absolute moron to think that an 8 year old daily driver in NY state would be be even close to rust-free. Unless you're pressure-washing the undercarriage every day in the winter, you'll have rust forming within 5 years.

The coast can be bad, but it's not even close to road salt in the winter in places like the northeast. You need to do a hell of a lot more than just rinse off road salt. A red car can turn grey in just one day of commuting in a Midwest or Northeast winter from salt and salt spray. Coastal salt just doesn't accumulate anywhere near that fast.

ZV