Car repair thread - power steering question

[allanon1965]

ok, here is the procedure straight from the mitchell repair information on my system
1.open hood
2.disconnect battery ground cable
3.from inside vehicle, remove nuts retaining steering column tube boot to cowl panel
4. remove bolt retaining steering column intermediate shaft coupling to lower yoke
5. position steering column tube boot out of the way. remove pinch bolt retaining steering column intermediate shaft coupling to power rack and pinion steering gear and remove steering column intermediate shaft coupling
6. raise vehicle on twin post hoist and remove front wheel and tire assemblies
7. remove exhaust system flex tube to dual conveter y-pipe attachment. disconnect heated oxygen sensor wiriing harness. remove dual converter y-pipe from vehicle
8. support vehicle with jack stands under rear edge of front sub-frame
9. remove tierod cotter pins and nuts and remove tierod end from right front wheel knuckle and left front wheel knuckle
10. remove tierod end from front wheel spindle tierod
11. remove nuts fropm steering gear to front sub-frame retaining bolts
12.remove rear sub-frame to body retaining bolts
13 raise hoist carefully until rear sub-frame is separated from the body approximatley 4 inches.
14. remove heat shield push-pin retainers from power steering hose bracket. remove steering shaft u-joint shield
15. remove screw and power steering left turn pressure hose from power steering hose bracket. remove two screws and power steering hose bracket
16. remove left stabilizer bar link
17. disconnect power steering pressure switch electrical connector
18. rotate power rack and pinion steering gear to clear bolts from sub-frame and pull left to ease line fitting removal
19. place drain pan under vehicle and remove power steering pressure hose and power steering return hose from fittings on rack and pinion steering gear
20. remove power rack and pinion steering gear assembly through left wheel well
21. to install, reverse removal procedure

there is the proper procedure for this job, then a proper full alignment after its finished, primarily due to the sub-frame being moved out of position and then put back...the bushings are rubber and will NOT be back in the same place...that I can guarantee

 

[Pacfanweb]

Funboy, you need to stop now. You are having your ass handed to you and as someone who worked at a Ford dealership for 16 years, I will back Allanon1965 up on his last post.

Replacing the rack on a Taurus is NOT going to be something a shadetree can do in the backyard.

The alignment IS most certainly affected, and at the very least the toe will need to be checked and set. You are disturbing the whole subframe.

The rack is a metal component, if you didn't know, and when it fails it can most certainly distribute metal throughout the system,
So, on an old car like this, I'd damn sure recommend a flush.
Edit: Not to mention when a steering component leaks and the pump runs low, it puts metal shavings in the system, too.

I would certainly recommend a Ford part in this case.

Or, the OP can do like you suggested....buy a piece of crap reman rack, find some jackleg to do it on the side for cheap, and then next year he can do it all over again in addition to replacing the pump this time, plus replacing the tires that he wore out by not having the alignment checked.
THEN, he can come on here and talk trash about how crappy a car the Taurus is, and how much money it has cost him.

 

[allanon1965]

Thanks pacfanweb.....this is how people get misinformed and I am attempting to set the record straight....I get flak every once in awhile at the shop by people like funboy, who do not know what they are talking about....but like I always say....if you dont like my prices and procedures because I do it the proper way....there is firestone down the street....let them fix it for you....

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: allanon1965
Thanks pacfanweb.....this is how people get misinformed and I am attempting to set the record straight....I get flak every once in awhile at the shop by people like funboy, who do not know what they are talking about....but like I always say....if you dont like my prices and procedures because I do it the proper way....there is firestone down the street....let them fix it for you....

Yep. They'll either run it in you sideways the first time, or they'll fix the obvious part and something else will fail in the near future that a knowledgeable tech would have known to replace the first time.

If the OP follows Funboy's advice, there is a very high percentage of a repeat repair in the next year.

 

[Evadman]

Originally posted by: allanon1965
this is how people get misinformed

Seriously, I gave up on trying to argue with some of the idiots here a while ago. Heck, we already lost roger.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
Dude, go to the Toyota dealership and walk through the service department. It's full of broken Toyotas being repaired.

Difference is, the Jap brands have historically been superior at educating their customers about having their maintenance done at the dealership, or at least having it done like they are supposed to.

That's probably true...I guess the advantage of always buying cars over a decade old is that you weed out the lemons

However, what kind of maintenance would a 1999 car need done on its steering system? Aside from keeping the PS fluid level from dropping.

 

[CFster]

Originally posted by: funboy42
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/catalog...g=701&partnum=22242&a=FR701-22242-rack $170 refurbished
http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroke...23d/80/1b/02/2f/0900823d801b022f.jsp-4 4-hours to R & R at $75 on the very high dealership prices

So $470 and olny $70 off my est UNLESSSSSSSSSS

You get:
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/catalog...talog=701&partnum=22242&a=FR701-22242-$90 rack from flebay and $20 to ship for $110
Shop around and check word of mouth and YOU can find it to get done for less then $75 so STFU it would be $410 or less right as I said it would be. Go back to playschool I been doing this stuff for over 20 years and if your one of these idiots that just go to any ole shop and drop it off as the manager takes you into his "special" room with the whips and chains because your two lazy to shop around then you should pay more then $400.

And yes if you shop around can find a cheaper shop that will install parts you bring in. They will just not warrant the part at all because I used to do that with my shop. And with times and money the way things are today Im sure more shops now will be glad to put in a part you bring in yourself and not turn away a customer.

OH and if you wanna go even cheaper go to your local junk yard. Prolly get a better one then the remanufactured one and be around $50 alread taken off the car for you. Then ask them if they know someone that would put it in for a case of beer and $150 and see how many takers you get. And if they wont do it 99% sure they know someone who would on the cheap.
You just got to know how the system works and you dont so

You're an idiot. First of all, you just quoted a price for a Cardone rack, which is an absolute POS. It's probably what's in there now. I wouldn't put one in my worst enemy's car. Buy a decent rack, and the price goes way up.

And you think $75hr is on the high side? I know guys charging $100 depending on the make. Welcome to the real world.

Yeah, the book calls for 3.7hrs but my tech is good and got it done in 2.5 - let me just charge the 2.5 and save the customer some money. ROFLMAO! I'd be out of business in a jiffy if I started thinking that way.

Plus, you forgot the alignment dumbass. And, even if all you had to do was set the toe, you still have to set it up on the alignment rack, and any shop in the world is going to charge you the same rate. But since you have to drop the cradle now everything is out of whack. This is NOT a job for the average joe.

And I too, have been doing this for 20 years (I write up estimates all day long). I'm very good at it, and get paid very well for it.

The difference between me and you is - I'm actually telling the truth.

 

[episodic]

SO, yes or no - can I let this go a month or two. . .

 

[funboy6942]

Id say yes but dumbfvck retail I work at a shop write est all day will probably say no because it will. What ever man. I was not doubting you fester nor was I calling you names I was hower showing it can be done and cheaper and around what I mentioned because you had asked me to. If this is how you are "professionally" I wouldnt take a go cart to your shop. I have owned over 300 cars since the age of 14. I been the customer as well as the manager and wrote up work along with you. If you took the time to read my reply above all the way you would of seen I agreed, AGREED, with you that if I owned a shop that I would suggest exactly what you mentioned. I was giving the OP a cheaper way out if he needed it to save money on a old Ford that really doesnt warrant putting in $600 worth of work considering hat prolly all it is worth anyway but you come in here with your shop retail mentality and think thats how it needs to be done and there is no other way and start a flame war with me even though I had AGREED with you if it was to get done the shop/right/expensive/like a new car way.

Quote:
BUT BUT BUT If I owned my own shop again or worked for one then YES by all means I would be selling exactly what your mentioning for you got to make a living.

I dont think I am missinforming in the least and yes my way may have him comming back for repairs in a year but since we dont know what the op has in mind for the car I gave him a way to have it done on the cheap side if he has plans of getting rid of the car. By all means YES YES YES YES YES if he wants to keep it for years then go spend the extra money and have it done right. I was just proving a point, that alot have missed, that it can be done for cheaper but too many people overlook the fact that not all is made of money. Not all can afford that much. I took it the op wanted it cheap due to the fact he mentioned it was going to be another $600. That to me is a shitload of money especially to have to have it done again. And having done alot of work to my own cars and and like to save my money I stick to my guns that IF IT WAS ME, I would get a junk yard rack and have a garage put it in for me. ONLY because I would never put a new OEM Ford rack in a older car that may have miles up the butt and who knows what else wrong with it. In fact if I was to have to sink $600 into a car I would sell it and buy another one for I have and can find a great car for $600 that may not need more then brakes or a tune up but this is a different story.

So since you cant read and see that I actually agreed with you to a point you have missed where I was comming from. Not everyone can afford to take it to your shop and pay your prices and if they cant it doesnt mean they are sh!t out of luck and I just provided the OP with other cheaper options to get him by with. And I dont think I am a dumbass in any strech of the imagination. Im just one who thinks for other people and different situations that they may be in. Just not my situation and if it doesnt get done my way then it cant be done. And for your INFO I worked for Ford. Village Ford In Bollingbrook IL for 3 years and had a mechanic that could swap it out without dropping the cradle. And I NEVER said because you can do it in 2 hours thats what you should charge. Just mentioning that it can be done and its not nearly as hard as you make it out to be or the book and there are ways of getting it done faster. And $75 is on the high side when you can find a backyard mechanic to do it for less. Yes you do it for that and the other guy asks for even more but again THATS NOT ALL THE CHOICES one has.

And BTW OP I am trully sorry for the crap I may of caused. I was just giving you cheaper/Different ways around it since now you would of put in $1200+ into the car in a years time if you took it back over to the place you had it done. Next time I will respond with a owner of a shop mentality and tell you that its going to be $600+ and there are NO other options for you to choose upon depending on your money situation and plans to do with the car. But its all good I know it can be done for what I said and if people like this have that kind of mindset its good for me because Im the one who buys your car dirt cheap and does what I said I would do and resell it and make some money. I love people like this and have bought many of cars from people with that kind of mind set that it has to be done in "XXXX" way or it cant be done and pretty much sells the car for peanuts. Anyway again I am sorry and I wont post in here again and waste my time with people who are narrow minded and feel it has to be one way or no way.

 

[OrganizedChaos]

fried valve or seal in the rack.

 

[jemcam]

Sounds more like a rack and pinion problem to me.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: jagec
However, what kind of maintenance would a 1999 car need done on its steering system? Aside from keeping the PS fluid level from dropping.

A 1999 car is now 8 model years old.

And it ain't the years, it's the miles.

That PS system needs flushing periodically. Look at the fluid on one that has about 50k miles, and it will be very dark.
Will it go longer without flushing? Sure. But it will just be a more expensive repair when it does break, whereas it might not have even broken if it had been maintained.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Evadman

Originally posted by: allanon1965
this is how people get misinformed

Seriously, I gave up on trying to argue with some of the idiots here a while ago. Heck, we already lost roger.

I'd give my left arm to have him still around. That man knew his sh*t and was great guy to just BS with.

To the OP: Yes the rack should last much longer than a year. I've owned a lot of older cars and the only time I've ever had a PS rack fail was when a previous owner had used the wrong fluid in the system. (Now that I've said that, the PS rack on my 951 will probably fail tomorrow just to keep my karma in balance.) You got un-lucky. The rack that was put in last year was almost certainly rebuilt and probably only carried a 90 day warranty. 90% or better chance that if you replace it again, you will not have a steering problem for as long as you own the car.

As far as driving it without the PS rack functioning, it's not a mechanical problem, but it's not safe to have it easier to turn one way than the other. You'd be better to remove the PS belt entirely and be rid of the power assist completely from a safety standpoint. This will make the car a pain in the arse at low speeds though, especially with the nose-heavy weight distribution of a Taurus.

I would recommend either repairing the rack or selling the car, cutting your losses, and buying a different car that may have a better track record.

ZV