Car repair thread - power steering question

[episodic]

Need quick advice.


Got a 99 Ford Taurus (yea I know - it was cheap). . .

It is the 6 cylinder 3 liter automatic if that makes a difference. . .


Suddenly, the power steering has went out when you turn the steering wheel 'left' - when you turn the steering wheel 'right' there is still power assist.

Does this sound like the power steering pump?

Reason I ask is a year ago we had the steering column replaced due to seals rupturing. Other than that the car has been problem free till today.

I just hope that this sounds like the power steering pump, as the steering column thing was expensive to fix before.

 

[JinLien]

Check fluid level, and make sure it is at the cold or hot fill line on the stick. Turn the steering wheel fully left & right several times and check the fluid level & fill to mark if require.

Do the above steps several times till the fluid level stay still and hopefully the fluid level isn?t so low that you have an air bubble lock. Undo the fitting on the pressure line at the rear/right of the engine (under the steering column) to bleed the line if you have an air lock.

Come back here for help if you need to replace the hose or pump.

 

[episodic]

Fluid level is good does not move on either turn. . .

What would that mean?

 

[bwatson283]

Your screwed, buy a new car. LOL


If you can still steer to the left and right fine (with or w/o PS), its not the column. So id say it is the pump, also check the power distro box/fuse panel. The fuse may be starting to go bad.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: bwatson283
Your screwed, buy a new car. LOL


If you can still steer to the left and right fine (with or w/o PS), its not the column. So id say it is the pump, also check the power distro box/fuse panel. The fuse may be starting to go bad.

You haven't got a clue.

If there is power assist in one direction, the pump is fine. You have a valve or something in the steering rack that has failed.

ZV

 

[Thegonagle]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: bwatson283
Your screwed, buy a new car. LOL


If you can still steer to the left and right fine (with or w/o PS), its not the column. So id say it is the pump, also check the power distro box/fuse panel. The fuse may be starting to go bad.

You haven't got a clue.

If there is power assist in one direction, the pump is fine. You have a valve or something in the steering rack that has failed.

ZV

As usual, ZV is right; without a doubt, it's not the pump. Probably the rack and pinion assembly. (Not the same thing as the column, which is not likely to fail, and if it did, you'd have NO steering at all.)

EDIT: This assumes that the fluid level is correct, of course.

 

[FrustratedUser]

Originally posted by: episodic
Need quick advice.


Got a 99 Ford Taurus (yea I know - it was cheap). . .

It is the 6 cylinder 3 liter automatic if that makes a difference. . .


Suddenly, the power steering has went out when you turn the steering wheel 'left' - when you turn the steering wheel 'right' there is still power assist.

Does this sound like the power steering pump?

Reason I ask is a year ago we had the steering column replaced due to seals rupturing. Other than that the car has been problem free till today.

I just hope that this sounds like the power steering pump, as the steering column thing was expensive to fix before.

Check the fluid level and top off if you need to.

 

[episodic]

Originally posted by: Thegonagle

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: bwatson283
Your screwed, buy a new car. LOL


If you can still steer to the left and right fine (with or w/o PS), its not the column. So id say it is the pump, also check the power distro box/fuse panel. The fuse may be starting to go bad.

You haven't got a clue.

If there is power assist in one direction, the pump is fine. You have a valve or something in the steering rack that has failed.

ZV

As usual, ZV is right; without a doubt, it's not the pump. Probably the rack and pinion assembly. (Not the same thing as the column, which is not likely to fail, and if it did, you'd have NO steering at all.)

That is what I was talking about - they replaced the rack and pinion last year. Sheesh. It cost 600$ then. Should these damn things not last more than a year?

 

[funboy6942]

ZV is right the rack went bad and will need to be replaced. Its not your fluid level because if it was it woudlnt work one way and not the other. Its not the pump because again it wouldnt work one way and not the other. Now if the rack goes out then it will work one way and not the other and that is all. There is no quick fix (atleast not one I can tell you that you would understand to do) so your going to have to suck it up and spend about $350 to have it replaced or $150 or less if you do it yourself.

End of disscusion.

EDIT
$600????? Where did you go and did they use lube or just stick it into you dry?

$90 rack
a $10 Chiltons manual
Some power sterring fluid (auto trans fluid)
And about 5-8 hours of your time and pocket the other $500

 

[Thegonagle]

These things should last more than a year. But the mechanic, more likely than not, installed a rebuilt or remanufactured part which is not as good as new in many cases, but is much less expensive. Fortunately, there should be a long warranty on the rebuilt/remanufactured part, so take it back to the same mechanic; there should be no charge for the part, however, you may need to pay for labor again depending on the shop
s policies.

 

[episodic]

Originally posted by: funboy42
ZV is right the rack went bad and will need to be replaced. Its not your fluid level because if it was it woudlnt work one way and not the other. Its not the pump because again it wouldnt work one way and not the other. Now if the rack goes out then it will work one way and not the other and that is all. There is no quick fix (atleast not one I can tell you that you would understand to do) so your going to have to suck it up and spend about $350 to have it replaced or $150 or less if you do it yourself.

End of disscusion.

EDIT
$600????? Where did you go and did they use lube or just stick it into you dry?

$90 rack
a $10 Chiltons manual
Some power sterring fluid (auto trans fluid)
And about 5-8 hours of your time and pocket the other $500

Unfortuantly, I don't have the tools or knowhow.

 

[episodic]

If it is not leaking, will it physically harm any other part to simply just drive it as is for the foreseeable?

 

[Evadman]

Originally posted by: episodic
If it is not leaking, will it physically harm any other part to simply just drive it as is for the foreseeable?

It will put additonal strain on the steering column itself because you will be forcing it to turn, instead of the rack, which 'pulls' the column along. Basicly the steering column was designed to tell the rack what to do, the column is not designed to be used without the assiantance if the rack for extended periods.

 

[episodic]

This is it, I'm buying a freaking bike. I hate freaking cars. I hate spending money on these pieces of crap that I could care less about ARGGG!

 

[funboy6942]

No it wont do anything other then be a pain beign all stiff trying to turn the wheel. If your need to get it done again and you cant do it obviously I would really shop around. Shouldnt be no more the $400 to have done on the very high side. And I agree I would see if you have any warranty on the part but you will have to eat the labor again unfortunatly if it is covered and then again that would suck because they already took you once it looks like. So if you do make sure to pull your pants down around your ankles and cary in a bottle of jelly with you

 

[allanon1965]

no more than 400? where are you shopping, autozone? a professional shop will be around 500 to 600 for a quality job....we only use remanufactured racks from the dealer, that way we KNOW it will have the proper fit and function as intended...many remanufactured racks are not really remanufactured, they are just cleaned up and new seals put in...I have seen many many instances where they reuse a pitted shaft that in about 6 months to a year, they leak and cause it to fail...I have also seen many cases where the installing technician did not follow proper procedure for flushing the system to get rid of debris that cause the new seals to fail prematurely...I have the unfortunate responsibility in our shop, of being the guy who has to find out why the part we installed has failed...then we get the rep in and make them pay us labor to replace their defective part, if it was the part that caused it of course...there is more to most repair today than most people want to realize, they still think the jobs are as easy as when they were done several years ago on the same model of car, they dont realize that every model year, the manufacturer changes tons of crap and makes our job even more difficult....hell, at least doctors only have to know 2 models....technicians have to know dozens of different models with hundreds of different ways of doing the same thing....how about the mini cooper? you all know they have an ELECTRIC power steering pump? what a joke! and yes, I am an ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician with over 25 years of experience....so I know what I am talking about....

 

[CFster]

Originally posted by: funboy42
No it wont do anything other then be a pain beign all stiff trying to turn the wheel. If your need to get it done again and you cant do it obviously I would really shop around. Shouldnt be no more the $400 to have done on the very high side. And I agree I would see if you have any warranty on the part but you will have to eat the labor again unfortunatly if it is covered and then again that would suck because they already took you once it looks like. So if you do make sure to pull your pants down around your ankles and cary in a bottle of jelly with you

Uh yeah right. The book gets 3.7hrs to do that job.

Price out a rack and figure $75+ hr labor and get back to us with that price again.

 

[CFster]

Originally posted by: allanon1965how about the mini cooper? you all know they have an ELECTRIC power steering pump? what a joke!

Yeah, some of the new GMs have electric power steering gear under the DASH.

I've seen them stop working - and you just don't lose power assist, the steering locks up.

Another wonderful design from GM.

 

[Pacfanweb]

If that car has variable assist, (and it probably does) it might just be a sensor, not the rack.

Get someone who knows what they are doing to look at it before you just replace the whole rack.

Plus, if it's only been a year, didn't it have some kind of warranty?

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: episodic
That is what I was talking about - they replaced the rack and pinion last year. Sheesh. It cost 600$ then. Should these damn things not last more than a year?

It SHOULD last for the lifetime of your car.

Originally posted by: episodic
This is it, I'm buying a freaking bike. I hate freaking cars. I hate spending money on these pieces of crap that I could care less about ARGGG!

You know, I really hate to be one of those import fanboys who thinks that Toyota/Honda can do no wrong, but damn. The newest Toyota I've ever owned has been an '89, and I've NEVER had a serious problem with them.

How TF is Ford still in business if they can't make a car last for longer than a decade? Even when half of my Celica was rusted through and it'd been in two accidents (not my fault), the thing still ran and drove. Even when the power steering started leaking and I drove it for months with no fluid, I could still put fluid in and it would work again. IMHO the definition of a "reliable" car isn't one where nothing breaks...it's one where if something breaks, you can still drive it, and it won't do extensive damage. I've had friends drive their Toyotas with such low oil that the dipstick was dry, and they still ran...

 

[funboy6942]

Originally posted by: CFster

Originally posted by: funboy42
No it wont do anything other then be a pain being all stiff trying to turn the wheel. If your need to get it done again and you cant do it obviously I would really shop around. Shouldnt be no more the $400 to have done on the very high side. And I agree I would see if you have any warranty on the part but you will have to eat the labor again unfortunatly if it is covered and then again that would suck because they already took you once it looks like. So if you do make sure to pull your pants down around your ankles and cary in a bottle of jelly with you

Uh yeah right. The book gets 3.7hrs to do that job.

Price out a rack and figure $75+ hr labor and get back to us with that price again.

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/catalog...g=701&partnum=22242&a=FR701-22242-rack $170 refurbished
http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroke...23d/80/1b/02/2f/0900823d801b022f.jsp-4 4-hours to R & R at $75 on the very high dealership prices

So $470 and olny $70 off my est UNLESSSSSSSSSS

You get:
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/catalog...talog=701&partnum=22242&a=FR701-22242-$90 rack from flebay and $20 to ship for $110
Shop around and check word of mouth and YOU can find it to get done for less then $75 so STFU it would be $410 or less right as I said it would be. Go back to playschool I been doing this stuff for over 20 years and if your one of these idiots that just go to any ole shop and drop it off as the manager takes you into his "special" room with the whips and chains because your two lazy to shop around then you should pay more then $400.

And yes if you shop around can find a cheaper shop that will install parts you bring in. They will just not warrant the part at all because I used to do that with my shop. And with times and money the way things are today Im sure more shops now will be glad to put in a part you bring in yourself and not turn away a customer.

OH and if you wanna go even cheaper go to your local junk yard. Prolly get a better one then the remanufactured one and be around $50 alread taken off the car for you. Then ask them if they know someone that would put it in for a case of beer and $150 and see how many takers you get. And if they wont do it 99% sure they know someone who would on the cheap.
You just got to know how the system works and you dont so

 

[Pacfanweb]

Dude, go to the Toyota dealership and walk through the service department. It's full of broken Toyotas being repaired.

Difference is, the Jap brands have historically been superior at educating their customers about having their maintenance done at the dealership, or at least having it done like they are supposed to.

Domestic makers have dropped the ball here big time.

Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Jeep, etc, owners DO NOT maintain their cars as well as the foreign car owners do.

Ford did this study a few years back, and at the time, was trying to emulate what Honda did in this regard.

If you take a stroll through that same Toyota dealer's service dept, you'll also see lots of maintenance being performed....far more than you'll see at your average domestic.
Domestic owners don't bother to replace timing belts until they break, for the most part. You have to practically twist their arms to get them to replace the fuel filter, service the transmission, etc. Not all, but it's harder to sell PM than it is with imports.

Take the OP's Taurus for example: He got the part replaced a year ago. Was it done at the dealership? Was it a Ford part, if not? If the answer to either question was "no", then you really can't blame that on Ford.

Fact of the matter is, with few exceptions, factory parts are better than aftermarket. Aftermarket stuff is usually cheaper....and you get what you pay for.

If the domestic makers can ever get their customers to take care of their cars like they are supposed to, you'll see them lasting longer, and their reputations will get better.

And yes, I'm sure there are plenty of people here that own a Ford or Chevy who can chime in and say "I do all my PM religiously and my POS Brand XXX car still broke 3 times before 100k miles".
You can say that about every single car make there is.

But spend a lot of years in a dealership watching thousands of cars come in, only when something has finally broken, and the car has 50k on it....has the original oil filter from the factory on it, and nothing has ever been touched.
Or the oil has been changed, but nothing else has been done.

And you'll know why domestics don't last. Maybe not the only reason, but it is a very big part of it.

 

[allanon1965]

If you have been doing this 20 some years, then you know the book is a GUIDE not a bible....no shop goes strictly by the book, because many times they are WRONG! in this case we get 4.5 hours for the job, and you forgot to include the ALIGNMENT! which is absolutely necessary...you cant "count the threads" or "measure it" and be accurate, I get this all the time and love doing the alignment and showing them just how far off their"close enough" was....sometimes the toe is off over 2 degrees!, that will chew up the tires in about a thousand miles! so...thats 337.50 for the labor, 69.00 for the proper alignment, not just a toe set for 39-59 like most shops...then the cost of the rack from Ford, which on a 98 I repaired last year was 290.00 by itself! thats 696.50 plus tax and fluids, you will also note that the labor guide does not include flushing the power steering system in the time quote, thats an add-on, which is why our time is slightly higher at 4.5, because we include the flush labor with it....

 

[funboy6942]

Originally posted by: allanon1965
If you have been doing this 20 some years, then you know the book is a GUIDE not a bible....no shop goes strictly by the book, because many times they are WRONG! in this case we get 4.5 hours for the job, and you forgot to include the ALIGNMENT! which is absolutely necessary...you cant "count the threads" or "measure it" and be accurate, I get this all the time and love doing the alignment and showing them just how far off their"close enough" was....sometimes the toe is off over 2 degrees!, that will chew up the tires in about a thousand miles! so...thats 337.50 for the labor, 69.00 for the proper alignment, not just a toe set for 39-59 like most shops...then the cost of the rack from Ford, which on a 98 I repaired last year was 290.00 by itself! thats 696.50 plus tax and fluids, you will also note that the labor guide does not include flushing the power steering system in the time quote, thats an add-on, which is why our time is slightly higher at 4.5, because we include the flush labor with it....

LOL flush Its not like a Transmission with metal parts are going to fail and get shaving into it contaminating the fluid. The powere sterring pump didnt go out so why the hell would you need to flush out the system? Just another bogus charge to something that really isnt needed and takes 15 minutes if that to perform.
Ford OEM on a 99 and a tight budget?????????
Full alignment when all you did was mess with the toe??????
Fluid is what 4-5 quarts of tranny fluid if even that much at all provided you plugged up all the holes so not to make a mess all over the floor?
I am sorry thoes your prices and I was proving that if your not a rich man, on a budget, it can be done for less then $400. Granted YES it can be done for more but I would never pay to have all that done there is no point in it IMO. And in these times with gas so high and everythign else on the rise would take the junkyard special and back yard mechanic.

BUT BUT BUT If I owned my own shop again or worked for one then YES by all means I would be selling exactly what your mentioning for you got to make a living. But the op wanted a quick answer so I gave him an honest, no BS, what needs to be done and how if he didnt want to spend another $600 to have it done at the same place.

But keep in mind here its a Ford not a Corvette, not a Mustang, but (sorry no offense to the OP) a POS Taurus throw away car and unless your anal would pay what your charging.

And yes I know the book is a guide. You brought up book times not me. My 4 hours was actually off the top of my head when looking at the provided site and seeing what all that would have to be done on op's taurus if it was book time (which I dont have one sitting here at my desk). And since were talking book time most mechanics have "special" ways of getting jobs done even faster and YOU know this as well. In all honestly looking at that it should take 3 hours 4 at max (if you didnt have a lift) to do EVERYTHINg even the tow and go and topping off of the fluids.

 

[allanon1965]

you are not a serious professional are you? have you replaced the rack on one of these cars? you have to lower the subframe which changes the alignment geometry....so yes a full alignment is necessary...you are not capable of putting it back exactly where it was, yes you can get it done cheap....and guess what? now he has to have it done again because of cheap parts.....so, its cheaper to do it twice? no.....do it right the first time, the proper way and you wont have these issues...plus you dont use transmission fluid in these units anymore gramps....back in the 60's and 70's you did....good ole dexron trans fluid....put trans fluid in a new system now and all you do is slowly destroy it, many companies wont even warranty the racks if trans fluid is used in them....and rack seals will always cause debris in the system...the metal part of the seal can and does wear in the aluminum bores of the rack, you ever heard of GM's morning sickness problem with the steering racks? caused by the seals wearing into the aluminum housing, and causing metal particulate to flow through the system and eventually damaging the power steering pump....you really dont have a clue about the repairs today....sad....but if you cant afford to have the repairs done the correct way, then shade tree it in your back yard and you only have yourself to be angry at when it doesnt work for long...of course it will be the junkyard part thats was the problem, or ford design sucks, or some other reason that it didnt work out....you never ever save money by doing a cheap repair....doing it over costs much more than doing it right the first time....