OK since I've been allowed to come back to AT, I figure I might as well copy this thread to here since it gets linked to on occasion. One of these days I'll clean up and finish???:Q this condensed version but I've said it before so I guess you'll have to deal with it.
Please post any questions or comments and I'll give you my opinions/suggestions.
****
Since the topic came up in the main forum I thought I might create a thread in here with some helpful hints for people who are looking to purchase a new or used vehicle from a dealership.
Background: I sold cars for a while a few years back. I sold mostly used cars for a big dealership(atleast for that area) but I did sell a few new cars along the way too. I was mildly successful selling cars but decided to leave that business due to the fact that every other salesman(except the gay guy) was married and divorced atleast once. I didn't think I wanted to deal with those odds. Not only that but it's really hard to be selectively honest to people day after day.
Anyway, on to the "help" and "info".
NEVER EVER EVER BUY BASED ON PAYMENT PRICING.
-meaning - negotiate and settle on purchase price first - then bring up any payment issues you may have(while in Finance office).
NEVER EVER EVER BUY for sticker price
-yes, even those places that claim to be no haggle stores(does Saturn still do that? ) THEY ALL WILL NEGOTIATE if they want to sell cars.
**Update starts here**
Step 1: Figure out your NEEDS in a vehicle, not your wants. Rank them. Make a list of wants in a vehicle and rank them. Take your top 5 from NEEDS and top 2 from Wants and figure out what type(SUV, truck, small car, etc) of vehicle most closely matches them. This may sound silly or "beneath" you but I'm telling you from experience that sales people don't sell to you based on need - they key in on your wants(what makes you feel good). I can't tell you how many times people went out the door with a vehicle that didn't come close to what they NEEDED. You need to have your core set (5 +2) and vehicle type figured out before you ever set foot on a car lot.
Step 2: Take your car type and make a list of cars that fit that description and then cross off brands/models you do NOT want and list the reason next to it. This is another very important step because during the heat of buying you can forget why you did not want a certain vehicle and then suddenly own one due to a slick sales person. Take the vehicles on the list that are not crossed off and rank them.
Step 3: Now that you have a vehicle type and a list of models made and pared down, you need to look at the financial portion. Figure out what you can reasonably afford to pay per month and write it down. Also figure out what you can spare for a down payment and write that down also. These numbers will help determine whether you need to be shopping for a new or used vehicle. For a new vehicle DO NOT go over a 60 month term - EVER! and for a used vehicle do not go over 36 months - EVER! I dealt with too many people who were so upside-down due to long terms on used vehicles it wasn't funny. Continuing to roll that bad equity into a new and longer term is NOT the answer so if you find yourself in this situation, it may be worth while looking at a lease as it will get you to "even" in 3 years.(warning, make sure your driving style suits leasing)
Step 4: Take your numbers to your bank and see what they can do as far as a loan.(DO NOT ACTUALLY GET ONE AT THIS TIME THOUGH). They will look at your numbers and give you some dollar amounts for new and used(if they are a good bank that is) loan total that they will accept. Also make sure to get and remember the Interest rate offered to you by your bank.
Step 5: Take the bank numbers(loan totals) and place them next to your vehicle list and start looking online and in the papers to see if they fall into those number ranges. Take your time on this step and watch a week or two's worth of papers to make sure the numbers really do fit in with the vehicles on the list.
Step 6: Your final list should have atleast 3 different model/makes on it - more would be prefered but sometimes you'll only get a few. This is now the time where you can start driving the dealership lots(atleast 3) looking for your vehicle. DO NOT get out of your vehicle at any of these dealerships the first time through. You are only driving through the lot to mark down how many of each vehicle make/model that is on your list that they have. This step once again may seem silly to you but trust me there is a reason for it.
Step 7: Now that you have this big messy list with a bunch of hatch marks under dealership names find the vehicle your ranked highest and find the dealership that had the most of them. This is the first place you will stop to test drive that vehicle model.
[lots of stuff goes here but I'll have to address it later]
**Update ends here**
NEVER EVER EVER take their first offer/counter offer.
- If they are willing to budge off the sticker and/or droptag(sale price) once they will budge again. My suggestion is that if there have been 3 or more counter offers by them(that they actually moved on price) then you are getting close to their bottom line. If there have been 3 successful price lowerings - keep trying until they come back atleast twice with the statement "we can't go any lower" and haven't budged on price. Yes, I know you might be a bit intimidated to do this, but I swear to you, the extra 30-45 minutes this step takes can save you hundreds if not thousands of dollars.
THE NEXT STEP:
-- now that you've gotten them to their rock bottom pricing - DO NOT SAY OK! Make up some excuse for a reason you need to leave(like think it over, ask your brother, etc. See my list of excuses below if you need some help with excuses) and then get up and walk to the door. If you make it out of the door, take a bit of time hanging around your old vehicle before getting in(Act like you wish you could buy but need to leave). Now I said "if" you make it to the door for a reason. 99 times out of 100 the sales person or their manager(if either are worth their salt that is) will catch you before you get to the door. Don't make a scene, just politely mention you need to leave while repeating the excuse you used. They'll try to sweet talk you into sitting back down to sign. Take a minute to hessitate but then go ahead and sit back down at the salesperson's desk. Hit them again with your lower offer(the one they couldn't match) and say that you'd buy if they could hit it. IF there is any room left for them to deal - this is where it will show up. You may need to repeat this step 2-3 times to squeeze some more out of them but if you keep leading on that will buy - they'll try to make it happen.
Well, that's about enough for now. It's pretty basic stuff but I guarantee it'll save you some $$. There is much more to this so I'll try to add more as time allows because I know I left a few things out. But the above should give you some guidlines/suggestions for the actual negotiation process.
If anyone has any questions/comments/tips to add please feel free to post them. I'll try to keep this first post updated with them.
***********
List of excuses:
#1 used excuse - "I have to check with my wife"
"Kids have a ___ game to get to and I have to get them there"(this one is great if you want to set them up which I'll explain at a later date)
"my brother/dad/freind is a car guy so I need to see what he thinks" (this is the third baseman routine excuse - can mess things up if you really intend on purchasing that day since this excuse does sometimes make them let you leave)
"have to go to work"
"pick up kids from daycare/sitters"
Please post any questions or comments and I'll give you my opinions/suggestions.
****
Since the topic came up in the main forum I thought I might create a thread in here with some helpful hints for people who are looking to purchase a new or used vehicle from a dealership.
Background: I sold cars for a while a few years back. I sold mostly used cars for a big dealership(atleast for that area) but I did sell a few new cars along the way too. I was mildly successful selling cars but decided to leave that business due to the fact that every other salesman(except the gay guy) was married and divorced atleast once. I didn't think I wanted to deal with those odds. Not only that but it's really hard to be selectively honest to people day after day.
Anyway, on to the "help" and "info".
NEVER EVER EVER BUY BASED ON PAYMENT PRICING.
-meaning - negotiate and settle on purchase price first - then bring up any payment issues you may have(while in Finance office).
NEVER EVER EVER BUY for sticker price
-yes, even those places that claim to be no haggle stores(does Saturn still do that? ) THEY ALL WILL NEGOTIATE if they want to sell cars.
**Update starts here**
Step 1: Figure out your NEEDS in a vehicle, not your wants. Rank them. Make a list of wants in a vehicle and rank them. Take your top 5 from NEEDS and top 2 from Wants and figure out what type(SUV, truck, small car, etc) of vehicle most closely matches them. This may sound silly or "beneath" you but I'm telling you from experience that sales people don't sell to you based on need - they key in on your wants(what makes you feel good). I can't tell you how many times people went out the door with a vehicle that didn't come close to what they NEEDED. You need to have your core set (5 +2) and vehicle type figured out before you ever set foot on a car lot.
Step 2: Take your car type and make a list of cars that fit that description and then cross off brands/models you do NOT want and list the reason next to it. This is another very important step because during the heat of buying you can forget why you did not want a certain vehicle and then suddenly own one due to a slick sales person. Take the vehicles on the list that are not crossed off and rank them.
Step 3: Now that you have a vehicle type and a list of models made and pared down, you need to look at the financial portion. Figure out what you can reasonably afford to pay per month and write it down. Also figure out what you can spare for a down payment and write that down also. These numbers will help determine whether you need to be shopping for a new or used vehicle. For a new vehicle DO NOT go over a 60 month term - EVER! and for a used vehicle do not go over 36 months - EVER! I dealt with too many people who were so upside-down due to long terms on used vehicles it wasn't funny. Continuing to roll that bad equity into a new and longer term is NOT the answer so if you find yourself in this situation, it may be worth while looking at a lease as it will get you to "even" in 3 years.(warning, make sure your driving style suits leasing)
Step 4: Take your numbers to your bank and see what they can do as far as a loan.(DO NOT ACTUALLY GET ONE AT THIS TIME THOUGH). They will look at your numbers and give you some dollar amounts for new and used(if they are a good bank that is) loan total that they will accept. Also make sure to get and remember the Interest rate offered to you by your bank.
Step 5: Take the bank numbers(loan totals) and place them next to your vehicle list and start looking online and in the papers to see if they fall into those number ranges. Take your time on this step and watch a week or two's worth of papers to make sure the numbers really do fit in with the vehicles on the list.
Step 6: Your final list should have atleast 3 different model/makes on it - more would be prefered but sometimes you'll only get a few. This is now the time where you can start driving the dealership lots(atleast 3) looking for your vehicle. DO NOT get out of your vehicle at any of these dealerships the first time through. You are only driving through the lot to mark down how many of each vehicle make/model that is on your list that they have. This step once again may seem silly to you but trust me there is a reason for it.
Step 7: Now that you have this big messy list with a bunch of hatch marks under dealership names find the vehicle your ranked highest and find the dealership that had the most of them. This is the first place you will stop to test drive that vehicle model.
[lots of stuff goes here but I'll have to address it later]
**Update ends here**
NEVER EVER EVER take their first offer/counter offer.
- If they are willing to budge off the sticker and/or droptag(sale price) once they will budge again. My suggestion is that if there have been 3 or more counter offers by them(that they actually moved on price) then you are getting close to their bottom line. If there have been 3 successful price lowerings - keep trying until they come back atleast twice with the statement "we can't go any lower" and haven't budged on price. Yes, I know you might be a bit intimidated to do this, but I swear to you, the extra 30-45 minutes this step takes can save you hundreds if not thousands of dollars.
THE NEXT STEP:
-- now that you've gotten them to their rock bottom pricing - DO NOT SAY OK! Make up some excuse for a reason you need to leave(like think it over, ask your brother, etc. See my list of excuses below if you need some help with excuses) and then get up and walk to the door. If you make it out of the door, take a bit of time hanging around your old vehicle before getting in(Act like you wish you could buy but need to leave). Now I said "if" you make it to the door for a reason. 99 times out of 100 the sales person or their manager(if either are worth their salt that is) will catch you before you get to the door. Don't make a scene, just politely mention you need to leave while repeating the excuse you used. They'll try to sweet talk you into sitting back down to sign. Take a minute to hessitate but then go ahead and sit back down at the salesperson's desk. Hit them again with your lower offer(the one they couldn't match) and say that you'd buy if they could hit it. IF there is any room left for them to deal - this is where it will show up. You may need to repeat this step 2-3 times to squeeze some more out of them but if you keep leading on that will buy - they'll try to make it happen.
Well, that's about enough for now. It's pretty basic stuff but I guarantee it'll save you some $$. There is much more to this so I'll try to add more as time allows because I know I left a few things out. But the above should give you some guidlines/suggestions for the actual negotiation process.
If anyone has any questions/comments/tips to add please feel free to post them. I'll try to keep this first post updated with them.
***********
List of excuses:
#1 used excuse - "I have to check with my wife"
"Kids have a ___ game to get to and I have to get them there"(this one is great if you want to set them up which I'll explain at a later date)
"my brother/dad/freind is a car guy so I need to see what he thinks" (this is the third baseman routine excuse - can mess things up if you really intend on purchasing that day since this excuse does sometimes make them let you leave)
"have to go to work"
"pick up kids from daycare/sitters"
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