Car problem: '92 chevy Lumina (car)

[Phil21]

Ok.. hopefully someone can point me in a direction here. My car is pretty much useless now, and it's a VERY bad time financially for this to happen. Perhaps luck will shine on me though.

My car has always had idle/off the line problems. I'd describe them as "jerkyness". I.e. the engine will catch, run for a little while at a high-idle, drop down to slow-idle, and then almost kill, and start back up into high idle again. The more annoying counterpart is hesitation off the line when you press the gas, if you're not carefull and edge into the accelleration the way the car likes it, it will kill on you. Kinda like the gas gets cut off for a small period of time, so the engine dips down to nearly zero RPM before taking off like it should. At highway or even low-speed cruise speeds the car is just fine, it's just the idle and acceleration that it doesn't like at all.

As of today though, the car will hardly ever even not kill in just an idle. It's almost impossible to keep it running in park, as it will just kill. If you can get it to rev, it will cut in and out, and then perhaps (not all the time) catch and rev like it should. However, if you then shift to drive/reverse it will almost always instantly kill. If it doesn't instantly kill, you can go forward with the car "jerking" forward. I.E. the car goes forward fast, then *almost* kills itself and slows down, then JERKS you forward again (this is with quite a bit of accel. on, otherwise it kills).

So.. pretty useless car. Now.. I do notice a fairly loud whine I havn't noticed before coming from the rear of the car, which I assume is the fuel pump. So I'm thinking maybe that, or perhaps a fuel filter?

any ideas?

peace,

-Phil

 

[Pepsi90919]

Hehe...yep sounds like a fuel filter or pump problem

 

[fastz28]

A few guesses:

clean fuel injectors
check plugs/wires/cap/rotor, just your basic tune up. When's the last time you did a tune up on it?

edit: yeah, check the fuel pump and filter too. Definitely fuel or spark related.

 

[notfred]

Whiny fuel pump is common in almost any american made car. I doubt it's a fuel delivery problem if it runs fine at a cruise.

Is the car fuel injected, or carbeurated? have you had any problems with anything electrical? Are the battery terminals corroded?

edit: when I say I doubt it's a fuel delivery problem, I mean I doubt it's a problem with a physical lack of fuel to the engine. I think it's more likely that the car's just not injecting fuel when it's supposed to.

And Ladies Man is on the right track, I think. A blocked MAS would cause a problem like that.

 

[Ladies Man]

mass air sensor

give it a check...

whine would point to the pump though

 

[Ornery]

Definitely fuel or spark related

Uh, I guess ya can't miss with that diagnosis!

That puppy has to go on a computer to narrow it down. It's probably one of several sensors/sending units.

 

[LAUST]

How many miles? If you have a dirty fuel filter it'll easily be that, other thing is 2 things will kill your fuel pump. One is having a low tank so it works hard, or 2 having a dirty fuel filter so it has to works hard.

I'd replace the Filter for starters, run some injector cleaner, check your spark plugs see what color they are and while your at it just replace em cause they are so cheap they are basically free.

If that don't fix it better get a Fuel Pressure gague on there and see how many Lbs of fuel your pumpin out.

 

[fastz28]

<< Definitely fuel or spark related

Uh, I guess ya can't miss with that diagnosis! >>



Gotta cover all my bases.

I'm pretty sure it's either the fuel injectors or plugs though. Check the plugs first, it's easy.

 

[punkrawket]

<< check plugs >>

i bet that's it

 

[Cyberian]

<< . Definitely fuel or spark related.
>>

Real good chance!!

 

[Phil21]

Tuned up (new spark plugs, wires) about 8 months ago now. Didn't help much.

Actually, the check engine light does come on. I even can borrow the little tiny computer code reader thing, that flashes the check engine light with a code. In fact I have previously, and it came with some sort of computer code (it was very obfuse). I wish I could remember exactly what we replaced, but it had to do with supplying spark I believe to the injectors. They looked like metal squares with wires coming out of 'em, and were mounted towards the bottom of the engine. Didn't help much either, but acceleration improved a tad in the high-end (55mph+). We even replaced the actuall ECM a while back with no luck.

I'll get the code tomorrow though.

the car has 133k miles on it, and I highly doubt the fuel filter has ever been changed. Anyone know where this is located in this car?

Also, the mass air sensor sounds interesting, where would this be located?

thanks for all the help guys, you gave me stuff to go on tomorrow. My girlfriends dad is a mechanic so he's coming over to look at it, but I hate to bother him as he's allready done thousands in free work to my other vehicles (including changing out a head gasket. bleh.).

-Phil

 

[Phil21]

also, how does one go about cleaning fuel injectors? Easy process?

Sorry for the lamenes.. I'm not very up to speed on fuel injected engines, I could at least handle minor problems with all the other older carborated cars I had.

thanks!

-Phil

 

[LAUST]

<< Actually, the check engine light does come on. I even can borrow the little tiny computer code reader thing, that flashes the check engine light with a code. In fact I have previously, and it came with some sort of computer code (it was very obfuse). I wish I could remember exactly what we replaced, but it had to do with supplying spark I believe to the injectors. They looked like metal squares with wires coming out of 'em, and were mounted towards the bottom of the engine. Didn't help much either, but acceleration improved a tad in the high-end (55mph+). We even replaced the actuall ECM a while back with no luck.

I'll get the code tomorrow though.

the car has 133k miles on it, and I highly doubt the fuel filter has ever been changed. Anyone know where this is located in this car? >>


Inside the frame twards the back of the car, I think I remember it being on the driver side.. pretty sure thats it on those



<< Also, the mass air sensor sounds interesting, where would this be located? >>


It's going to be on your intake tube, right after the air filter, I don't think your year has that tho, I think yours is speed density



<< thanks for all the help guys, you gave me stuff to go on tomorrow. My girlfriends dad is a mechanic so he's coming over to look at it, but I hate to bother him as he's allready done thousands in free work to my other vehicles (including changing out a head gasket. bleh.). >>


I really think your Filter is clogged and causing your pump to overwork (Why it's making so much noise)
If you replace it and still no go borrow a Fuel pressure gague and check the pressure..

If that car has 133K miles on it it DEFINANTLY needs a new fuel filter

Edit fixed quotes, I know I missspelled some stuff but I don't care

 

[lepper boy]

Hope some of these ideas get you fixed if not. you might wanna try looking at your distributer... Take off the cap and rotor and you should be able to pull out the whole thing that spins. on that is a little electrical chip, take that in and have that checked out... (remember to mark EXACTLY which position it was in whne you pull it out.) I know if the chip is starting to go bad it will do some nasty things to the car..

good luck.
dave

 

[fastz28]

<< also, how does one go about cleaning fuel injectors? Easy process? >>



You can buy some of those fuel injector cleaner that goes into the gas tank ($3) or if really clogged, professionally cleaned for about $50.

 

[Pepsi90919]

I have a 92 Bonneville so I can probably make a few guesses:

a) He doesn't have a distributor, but rather the 3-coil distributorless ignition (maybe these were the 'metal square' you were talking about?)

b) The fuel filter is underneath the passenger side front door area of the frame. It'll be a large grey unit with 2 long ends to it.

I think these vehicles were related in a few ways, so see if that helps.

 

[Phil21]

pepsi, that's exactly what I meant. Definitely 3 seperate "plates"

Alright guys, I think I'll check the fuel filter first tomorrow, and go from there.


thanks much!

-Phil

 

[fastz28]

LOL. Good luck tomorrow. Let us know what the problem was.

Ps. Just a side observation, where are those so called car experts of ATOT? I never see them helping people out with real problems. They can only compare specs of what they read and voice opinions on things they have no experience with. Or dream about some cars they'll never get. :disgust:

 

[Sluggo]

Some of the problems sound like a faulty TPS (throttle position sensor) and changing a fuel filter isnt going to hurt anything

 

[Jeffwo]

<< mass air sensor

give it a check...

>>



My sentiments exactly. If you know anyone who could hook it up on a machine (scanner) they
could tell you in a minute what the problem was. It really sounds like either throttle control or
mass air sensor to me and I trade in cars all the time. Get it checked, shouldn't be over 1 hr. labor
and find you a used part, whatever it is. I think you will be OK with this one, it's not terminal.

Jeff

 

[SuperSix]

1. Vacuum leak
2. bad plugs/wires
3. Bad MAF (tap on it while running to see if it helps)


I'm leaning towards vacuum leak.

 

[Phil21]

aha! sluggo! that was the computer error code, and what my GF's dad said forever ago. The only thing is that the error code looked up strangely on the little lookup list thing, and it actually came back as like 3 or 4 different "things" that could be wrong.

throttle posistioning sensor was definitely one of them though, and I think we replaced the rest. I think you probably just saved me a few hours of work! thanks!

feeling much better about this now. New fuel filter and new TPS tomorrow it seems.

-Phil

 

[Sluggo]

Everyone who works on GM throttle bodies knows this little part. It has very specific symptoms that only show up at idle, during regular driving, the symptoms almost never appear. The car sputters as if running out of fuel, then kicks the idle up to about 2000RPM. It repeats this little performance at odd times, and seems to have no rhyme or reason. The problem is easier to live with if you have a manual transmission, you can get past most of it during acceleration, but with an automatic, its kills the car all time.

 

[garytmib]

hey phil21,
i had the same fuel pump whine and after replacing it three times (in tank pump) i found that the diaphram in the fuel pressure regulator (which is under hood) had ruptured, give this a check.

 

[Hamburgerpimp]

Car problem: '92 chevy Lumina (car)

I think you answered it in the title.