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Car Audio: Need advice on new set up

z1ggy

z1ggy

Lifer
2011 Mazda3s Hatch, all OEM right now. I just got a new job and found out I will be in tons of traffic per day. Since I'll be spending a lot more time in the car, I want to upgrade my sound system to something better. I currently already have a JL audio sub and amp. Amp is a mono just for the sub.

I'm looking to replace the HU, speakers and power said speakers with another amp. Doing some research, it seems like there's only one HU that plays very nicely with the set up in the mazda if you want to retain all the OEM functions and use the stock mounting bracket. Maybe this isn't true but it's talked about a bunch on the mazda forums:

http://www.eonon.com/All-Category/D5163Z.html

I don't really feel like mounting or drilling holes for a component set up, so I think I'm going to go coax. My debate is whether or not I want to buy a very nice pair for front only and just disconnect the OEM rear speakers or get a little bit lower quality, but get front & rear speakers. This obviously affects what amp I would buy, too.

Not looking for some crazy audiofile set up, just something that's significantly better than what I have right now, looking to spend no more than like $600.
 
Does you car currently have separate tweeters? Seems like it should. I would still go with components mounted in the stock locations. At any rate, I would only worry about the front. I still have OEM, HU powered speakers in the rear of our WRX but from the front you don't hear them at all; wife wanted to leave them in for the rare occasion we have have passengers.

EDIT: Is your budget $600 for all 3; hu, amp and speakers?
 
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NutBucket said:
Does you car currently have separate tweeters? Seems like it should. I would still go with components mounted in the stock locations. At any rate, I would only worry about the front. I still have OEM, HU powered speakers in the rear of our WRX but from the front you don't hear them at all; wife wanted to leave them in for the rare occasion we have have passengers.

EDIT: Is your budget $600 for all 3; hu, amp and speakers?
Click to expand...

I'm honestly not sure but the OEM quality is pretty crap, I'm not sure what the speaker arrangement is. Can tweeters mount right into the speaker itself? Most tweeter setups I've seen have them mounted around ear level, usually on the A pillar or something. I'm really not trying to do that... Or pay somebody to do it.

Yes $600 for a new HU, amp (for speakers) and speakers themselves. I've never done audio before, but I've wired other things in my old motorcycle so this type of thing is fairly easy for me. How much do shops typically charge for this amount of work?
 
A lot! For your budget this is definitely DIY.

First step would be to check out Crutchfield. At the bare minimum you can find out what fits your car. Honestly I wouldn't buy that HU you linked. Looks like no-name Chinese crap to me.
 
I would do the research and find components that mostly fit for the front first and mount them. It's pretty easy actually. I would then replace the rear speakers with coaxial ones of the same brand, and then see how it sounds.

The weakest link in a factory setup is the speakers, sometimes just changing to better sounding speakers, which are also probably more efficient and will crank a bit louder and clearer, may have you rethink the head unit entirely.

I generally like to have my rear speakers, if not for passengers, for rear fill and also more sound when driving at speed with the windows down. You can also just fade them off from the head unit if you want, but personally I like them and I like their sound to timbre match the fronts.

I don't know if you have the sub and factory speakers crossed over properly, if the speakers are outputting full range sound it helps to cross them over so they aren't trying to do the subs job any longer of cranking out bass.
 
NutBucket said:
A lot! For your budget this is definitely DIY.

First step would be to check out Crutchfield. At the bare minimum you can find out what fits your car. Honestly I wouldn't buy that HU you linked. Looks like no-name Chinese crap to me.
Click to expand...
Well, because of the plastic bezel part on the dash, there's only a very specific size/shape of the HU that will fit. Some generic single DIN Kenwood won't work here.

Edit: Would this work? CF says it would..... but it's perfectly square. The bezel in the dash is like a trapezoid like that HU I linked above.
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_113DPX592B/Kenwood-Excelon-DPX592BT.html?tp=5684

And I have checked Crutchfield. For some weird reason, every speaker that is matched with my car model says "fits rear speaker" but nothing ever says front. I assume that's because the front and rears are the same size or something...?

nOOky said:
I would do the research and find components that mostly fit for the front first and mount them. It's pretty easy actually. I would then replace the rear speakers with coaxial ones of the same brand, and then see how it sounds.

The weakest link in a factory setup is the speakers, sometimes just changing to better sounding speakers, which are also probably more efficient and will crank a bit louder and clearer, may have you rethink the head unit entirely.

I generally like to have my rear speakers, if not for passengers, for rear fill and also more sound when driving at speed with the windows down. You can also just fade them off from the head unit if you want, but personally I like them and I like their sound to timbre match the fronts.

I don't know if you have the sub and factory speakers crossed over properly, if the speakers are outputting full range sound it helps to cross them over so they aren't trying to do the subs job any longer of cranking out bass.
Click to expand...

Yeah I actually think my car does have tweeters, mounted up by the very bottom of the A pillar directly across from the side view mirror. I have no clue how to get the cover off and where the wiring would go, so that will require more research.

Currently, the sub is not installed in the car. But I usually set up the system so I only pass frequencies above 150Hz to the speakers, and everything <150Hz to the sub.
 
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I like Kenwood...not so thrilled about that cheap-ass looking display. Any receiver is fine really, just get a name brand one. Double-DIN isn't worth it unless you're getting a unit with a real LCD.
 
I would do components up front, 3 way if possible.

Biggest issue will be placing the crossovers, as they can be fairly large. It can be hard to find a spot for them.

Eitherway, I would just do the front, and use a 2channel amp.. probably at least 100x2 rms.

150rms x 2 would be even better.

if you have a strong front stage, you don't need anything behind you, and you get a much more proper stereo image that way.
 
From what I can tell from Crutchfield if you have tweeters they are located in the sail panels (side mirror) on the doors. If you don't, I'd honestly suggest adding them. You could purchase the OEM parts (probably fairly cheap).

Also, looks like the front and rear speakers are 6x8s. There's a fairly limited selection in that size. You can use an adapter like this: http://www.crutchfield.com/p_142SA68/Scosche-SA-68-Speaker-Mounting-Brackets.html
to install 6.5" speakers.
 
I recently had Best Buy install component speakers in all 4 doors for my focus and was very pleased with the service. About 4 hours, about $250. For just coax on front doors it would probably be only $100. I can't speak to their amp installs or anything, but those are way easier than speakers IMO, but I've never been any good at door panels
 
TechBoyJK said:
I would do components up front, 3 way if possible.

Biggest issue will be placing the crossovers, as they can be fairly large. It can be hard to find a spot for them.

Eitherway, I would just do the front, and use a 2channel amp.. probably at least 100x2 rms.

150rms x 2 would be even better.

if you have a strong front stage, you don't need anything behind you, and you get a much more proper stereo image that way.
Click to expand...
Since I'm not trying to break the bank, I think the one components I were looking at were around 100w RMS, so 150 is probably over kill I'd imagine.

Hopefully there will be room in the door panel to place them. Is there a good way to secure them so they aren't rattling all over the place?

NutBucket said:
From what I can tell from Crutchfield if you have tweeters they are located in the sail panels (side mirror) on the doors. If you don't, I'd honestly suggest adding them. You could purchase the OEM parts (probably fairly cheap).

Also, looks like the front and rear speakers are 6x8s. There's a fairly limited selection in that size. You can use an adapter like this: http://www.crutchfield.com/p_142SA68/Scosche-SA-68-Speaker-Mounting-Brackets.html
to install 6.5" speakers.
Click to expand...

Yeah I just looked, I do have tweeters in the sail panels as you said, so components will work fine here. Yeah I knew I'd need an adapter bracket... however crutchfield is telling me my choice for size is 5.25 or 6.75. Although the only 6.75 offered says it fits 6.5'' openings..
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_500SPR60C/Alpine-SPR-60C.html?tp=106

Also, general question:

1) How much pre-amp voltage should I be looking for here? Most of the affordable double din HU's seem to have 2 or 2.5V. Single DIN I found a few up to 4V.

2) How high of a frequency response is really needed? I plan to run a low pass on my sub around 150Hz, but I really don't know if some of these are worth the extra price to get all the way up to 29kHz or not..
 
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For your general questions both are irrelevant for the type of the system you're going for. It would matter more if you were spending big bucks for a truly high end system.
 
NutBucket said:
For your general questions both are irrelevant for the type of the system you're going for. It would matter more if you were spending big bucks for a truly high end system.
Click to expand...

Okay cool. Here's what I'm thinking of right now:

Sub: Already have
Mono Amp for sub: Have
Component Speakers: http://www.crutchfield.com/p_107DB5251/Polk-Audio-db5251.html
Receiver: http://www.crutchfield.com/p_158GS610BT/Sony-MEX-GS610BT.html
2 Chan Amp for Speakers: http://www.crutchfield.com/p_575P300X2/Rockford-Fosgate-Punch-P300X2.html?tp=115
Adapater plate for speakers:http://www.crutchfield.com/p_142SA68/Scosche-SA-68-Speaker-Mounting-Brackets.html?tp=2824
Dash Kit: http://www.crutchfield.com/p_120997514B/Metra-99-7514B-Dash-Kit.html?tp=3121


No clue where my RCA cables or anything else is, so I'd need to buy all new wire, fuse, etc.
 
IMHO Fosgate is overpriced and has been overrated for years. Honestly any amp will do. For the HU I would try playing with then at Best Buy or something. But again, they all have similar features so get the that you like. Speakers are subjective so I'll say those are fine.

I've had a Cadence amp for years. I don't recall what forum I got the suggestion from but no regrets and quite affordable. This one would be more than adequate: Cadence FXA1000.2 1000W 2-Channel Flash FXA Series Full Range Class A/B Car Amplifier https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009UUI436/ref=cm_sw_r_other_awd_SXdexbCRSR6WB
 
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NutBucket said:
IMHO Fosgate is overpriced and has been overrated for years. Honestly any amp will do. For the HU I would try playing with then at Best Buy or something. But again, they all have similar features so get the that you like. Speakers are subjective so I'll say those are fine.

I've had a Cadence amp for years. I don't recall what forum I got the suggestion from but no regrets and quite affordable. This one would be more than adequate: Cadence FXA1000.2 1000W 2-Channel Flash FXA Series Full Range Class A/B Car Amplifier https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009UUI436/ref=cm_sw_r_other_awd_SXdexbCRSR6WB
Click to expand...

That product didn't seem to get many, or good reviews... I'll research it a bit, but power electronics should be pretty straight forward. As far as the HU, I just randomly picked that one because it looked nice and seemed to have a lot of features. In the past I have had Pioneer and Kenwoods, and they have been fine. Since you said I don't need to worry about having a higher pre-amp voltage, could I get away with something closer to the $100-120 range?

Edit: Online when I'm looking at schematics, I see a lot of set ups run power blocks and caps in 2 amp set ups. I assume I will need to as well? I've drawn out a schematic, I will take a photo of it and post it later.
 
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I went down this rabbit hole some time ago with my Mazda 3 (2006) but never ended up pulling the trigger. At that time I don't think there was any head unit available that would have kept the factory display working correctly. In the end I figured putting a decent stereo in a car with that much road noise was probably a waste of money.

If you end up going through with it I would be curious to hear how things worked out. I just got rid of my Mazda, but the person I sold it to was just asking me about replacement head units / speakers.
 
I'll throw my .02 in, take it as you want.

Looking at your latest list of equipment, a couple questions/comments.

1. It looks like you have an adapter plate for 6 x 8 speakers, why are you choosing to go with 5 1/4" components instead of 6 1/2"? The bracket claims to support 6 1/2" speakers, but I'm not sure how true that is...

2. I'm not a fan of Sony head units, but I guess that is up to personal preference. Maybe they've come a long way since their XPLOD line, who knows.

3. That RF 2-channel seems overpriced, I realize it is a class AB, but a class-D amp can provide nearly the same audio quality (usually with less heat output).

For wiring and such, I am a fan of KnuKonceptz. Awful name, but they have quality stuff. I use their power distribution blocks and inline fuse holders, as well as their wiring (except for my 0AWG which is welding wire). They ARE a bit pricey, but I like their stuff.

You won't need a cap, and you can use a distro block if you don't want to run two runs of power wire from your battery. I myself run 0AWG from the battery to the rear, where I split into 2x 4AWG. Each amp has a separate ground, but you can combine if you want.
 
z1ggy said:
I'm honestly not sure but the OEM quality is pretty crap, I'm not sure what the speaker arrangement is. Can tweeters mount right into the speaker itself? Most tweeter setups I've seen have them mounted around ear level, usually on the A pillar or something. I'm really not trying to do that... Or pay somebody to do it.

Yes $600 for a new HU, amp (for speakers) and speakers themselves. I've never done audio before, but I've wired other things in my old motorcycle so this type of thing is fairly easy for me. How much do shops typically charge for this amount of work?
Click to expand...

My last car stereo had stock locations at the bottom of the driver side door. I installed components where the tweeters were at the top of the door and mids down low. It worked out nicely.

Are you installing them? If not the install is going to eat about $200 so you can spend up to $400. Keeping the stock head and replacing the stock speakers can make a world of difference. I'm older now but I think my next vehicle is going to have a nice stereo in it.
 
ControlD said:
I went down this rabbit hole some time ago with my Mazda 3 (2006) but never ended up pulling the trigger. At that time I don't think there was any head unit available that would have kept the factory display working correctly. In the end I figured putting a decent stereo in a car with that much road noise was probably a waste of money.

If you end up going through with it I would be curious to hear how things worked out. I just got rid of my Mazda, but the person I sold it to was just asking me about replacement head units / speakers.
Click to expand...
I'm definitely doing it. I don't even care about the OWM display because A) it's garbage and B) virtually pointless with an after market HU

I will post back in here once the install is done.

96Firebird said:
I'll throw my .02 in, take it as you want.

Looking at your latest list of equipment, a couple questions/comments.

1. It looks like you have an adapter plate for 6 x 8 speakers, why are you choosing to go with 5 1/4" components instead of 6 1/2"? The bracket claims to support 6 1/2" speakers, but I'm not sure how true that is...
yeah that was my bad, I actually found on Amazon, prices are literally 50% of what they are on crutchfield. I'm probably going to go with a pair of 6.5'' Alpine SPR-60C's.

2. I'm not a fan of Sony head units, but I guess that is up to personal preference. Maybe they've come a long way since their XPLOD line, who knows.
Probably going with the Alpine UTE-52BT. All the same features as the Sony but less $$

3. That RF 2-channel seems overpriced, I realize it is a class AB, but a class-D amp can provide nearly the same audio quality (usually with less heat output).
Probably not using the RF anymore, going to likely go with the one Nutbucket linked me from Amazon after I do a little more research. It's about 1/3 the price

For wiring and such, I am a fan of KnuKonceptz. Awful name, but they have quality stuff. I use their power distribution blocks and inline fuse holders, as well as their wiring (except for my 0AWG which is welding wire). They ARE a bit pricey, but I like their stuff.

You won't need a cap, and you can use a distro block if you don't want to run two runs of power wire from your battery. I myself run 0AWG from the battery to the rear, where I split into 2x 4AWG. Each amp has a separate ground, but you can combine if you want.
Why no cap just curious? I assume it's there to act as a filter?
Click to expand...

IHateMyJob2004 said:
My last car stereo had stock locations at the bottom of the driver side door. I installed components where the tweeters were at the top of the door and mids down low. It worked out nicely.

Are you installing them? If not the install is going to eat about $200 so you can spend up to $400. Keeping the stock head and replacing the stock speakers can make a world of difference. I'm older now but I think my next vehicle is going to have a nice stereo in it.
Click to expand...

I'm going to do the job myself with a friend, if he's feeling nice. I should only need a few tools like a panel popper and maybe some misc bolts. I could probably get a better soldering iron since my cheap $20 one really sucks. The hardest part is just routing wire and take the door panels off.
 
I would get something a little more powerful than the Cadence amp, output on that is only 2x 65W @ 4 ohm. With the Type R components, you are going to want an amp that can at least output 100W RMS per channel @ 4-ohms.

I have a set of 2-ohm components with this amp, which is a pretty balanced setup. Plus I also have 6.5" midwoofers on the other two channels.

CDT makes great speakers if you want to look at them, but they aren't well known and might not be able to find them everywhere. The PPI class-D amps are good as well, small size but put out some decent power.

Caps aren't needed if your battery is up to the task, which sounds like it should be with the system you're looking to build. Read up on caps, and the myths behind their selling points.

Installs always take longer than you think, especially if you want to hide all the wire runs well. Here is my car mid-install, I made it easy on myself and disassembled a lot of my interior.
 
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If you ever look at how much power you actually use you'd see that realistically 20W rms is more than you'll likely ever use in practice. That holds true for home audio too.
 
96Firebird said:
I would get something a little more powerful than the Cadence amp, output on that is only 2x 65W @ 4 ohm. With the Type R components, you are going to want an amp that can at least output 100W RMS per channel @ 4-ohms.

I have a set of 2-ohm components with this amp, which is a pretty balanced setup. Plus I also have 6.5" midwoofers on the other two channels.

CDT makes great speakers if you want to look at them, but they aren't well known and might not be able to find them everywhere. The PPI class-D amps are good as well, small size but put out some decent power.

Caps aren't needed if your battery is up to the task, which sounds like it should be with the system you're looking to build. Read up on caps, and the myths behind their selling points.

Installs always take longer than you think, especially if you want to hide all the wire runs well. Here is my car mid-install, I made it easy on myself and disassembled a lot of my interior.
Click to expand...

Yeah, originally I was going with the polk audio's but now that I literally found the Type R's for half price on Amazon, I will need more power from an amp. I'll post up my parts list tonight as well as a schematic.

Can you recommend what wiring kit to get off Knukonceptz? I was thinking something like this plus a powerblock and ground block. Will remote wire come with the amp?
 
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