Capitalism's Arrogance Flaw

KevinMU1

Senior member
Sep 23, 2001
673
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0
This was originally going to be a rant about how Intel was possibly going to make an x86-64 processor based an AMD's design... even after touting how much better their own Itanium was. But, then, I realized the larger issue at hand.

I realized that one of the problems with capitalism is that it breeds arrogance, and thus fools. In a capitalistic market, each company has to push their own products as being the best over everybody else's, whether or not their product really is better. I remember when Apple was on their kick about the Gx processors and they would have "benchmarks" saying how much better they were than the Pentium X, but citing only an IntegerMark test. In reality, the Gx chips were not nearly as good as the tests made them out to--only because the Gx had great Integer math routines and the Pentium X did not. If Apple had shown a floating point test, then they would have had no ad campaign.

Is it ethical for companies to stilt their products like this? Probably not, but what bothers me even more is that 1) consumers fall for this advertising and 2) consumers don't get really annoyed with companies that push a certain product and then suddenly change their strategy (think Intel with Rambus... now Intel has SDRAM and DDR chipsets for the Pentium 4). This arrogance that capitalism requires is just plain annoying, and can make companies look downright stupid sometimes--but nobody seems to notice. That's the other thing that I find confusing. Are consumers that naive, that unobservant, that uncaring, or what?

I'm not an economist, so I'm probably spouting off something here that violates some economic laws, but in my books it seems that consumers might appreciate some honesty and humility. Yes, it sounds rather bizarre, but I think that a humble company might just quietly work it's way to the top, and nobody would even realize it.

Or, perhaps, they would be slaughtered by all of the other arrogant companies trying to claw, bite, scratch and kick their way to the top.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126


<< In a capitalistic market, each company has to push their own products as being the best over everybody else's, whether or not their product really is better. >>



So you suggest an "Our product is number 2!" advertising campaign?

Sorry, but i'm firing you as my marketing director ;)
 

Noriaki

Lifer
Jun 3, 2000
13,640
1
71
Capitalism's greateast flaw: The unequal sharing of pleasures.
Communism's greateast benefit: The equal sharing of misery.

(paraphrased)

Take your pick friend.


Though you are right, Marketting guys are a tad on the arrogant side. But they have to be, they have to convince the stupid masses to buy their product.
 
Apr 5, 2000
13,256
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What Noraki basically said.

You create a business to make money - if people are going to slant their products and you know you'll go under if you don't, why wouldn't you? No one said business is pretty - it's all about the benjamins. If you don't like it move to China or Russia where you can work for the common good and barely eek out a living.
 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
29,470
1
81


<< I'm not an economist, so I'm probably spouting off something here that violates some economic laws, >>



You better believe it :)



<< 2) consumers don't get really annoyed with companies that push a certain product and then suddenly change their strategy (think Intel with Rambus... now Intel has SDRAM and DDR chipsets for the Pentium 4). This >>



Why would they get annoyed? They told Intel they didn't want Rambus by not buying any...now they have what they want in SDRAM and DDR. BTW, what happened to number 3? :)
 

Brutuskend

Lifer
Apr 2, 2001
26,558
4
0
Seems there was a car rental place a few years back that used that very same type of ad stratagy.

"We are number TWO, so we try harder"
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
18,949
573
126


<< I realized that one of the problems with capitalism is that it breeds arrogance, and thus fools. >>

lol! I see lots of fools around, none more so than those who still believe collective ideologies will work "if only the right people were in charge" even though they've had plenty of chances and experiments, none lasting 1/10 as long as capitalism and couldn't feed 1/20 the people.

Arrogance isn't an inherent flaw in capitalism, its an inherent flaw in humanity, especially in those with power.
 

Noriaki

Lifer
Jun 3, 2000
13,640
1
71


<< Arrogance isn't an inherent flaw in capitalism, its an inherent flaw in humanity, especially in those with power. >>

Yeah you can say that again.

Power Corrupts, and Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely ;)

(Sorry about the Cliche, but it fits and it's true)
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,402
8,574
126


<< So you suggest an "Our product is number 2!" advertising campaign? >>

snapple's "we're number 3!" campaign comes to mind (behind coke and pepsi)
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,420
1,600
126


<< Capitalism's greateast flaw: The unequal sharing of pleasures.
Communism's greateast benefit: The equal sharing of misery.

(paraphrased)

Take your pick friend.
>>



nice quote, i like ;)
 

Noriaki

Lifer
Jun 3, 2000
13,640
1
71


<<

<< Capitalism's greateast flaw: The unequal sharing of pleasures.
Communism's greateast benefit: The equal sharing of misery.

(paraphrased)

Take your pick friend.
>>



nice quote, i like ;)
>>

I *think* it was Wiston Churchill, but I'm not 100% sure.
 

CocaCola5

Golden Member
Jan 5, 2001
1,599
0
0
The great flaw in cap. economies probably is the belief that it's the law of supply and demand alone that governs the fair pricing of goods and service, and all based on natural "market conditions", when to the contrary, nearly as often it is based on mis-informed consumers and or false advertising.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,402
8,574
126
the biggest market failure is imperfect information. thats what anandtech is for.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,406
19,792
146
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings. The inherent virtue
of socialism is the equal sharing of misery. - Churchill

That's the original quote.
 

mithrandir2001

Diamond Member
May 1, 2001
6,545
1
0
And some wonder why so much cynicism fills these boards. We've been fed so much advertising crap that we don't trust anybody!
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,406
19,792
146


<< The great flaw in cap. economies probably is the belief that it's the law of supply and demand alone that governs the fair pricing of goods and service, and all based on natural "market conditions", when to the contrary, nearly as often it is based on mis-informed consumers and or false advertising. >>



Capitalism is freedom. With freedom comes responsibility. One of those responsibilities is "buyer beware."

If the public acts stupidly, DON"T pass another freakin law stomping on the necks of honest businesses. EDUCATE the consumer.

You canot have freedom with nannystate laws designed to protect us from our own stupidity and/or ignorance. The more the government watches out for individuals, the more individual rights we lose.

We don't NEED any more laws, or restrictions on businesses or individuals. What we need is a return to the concept on individual responsibility. If you're suckered, nine times out of ten it's your own fault. Look at the idiots in the Hot Deals forum who, after being told repeatedly from many different sources that GPS computers was a scam, went ahead and ordered computers from them. Hell, GPS even had a shill on the forums.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,406
19,792
146


<< And some wonder why so much cynicism fills these boards. We've been fed so much advertising crap that we don't trust anybody! >>



Our lack of trust predates advertising... trust me.

;)
 
Oct 16, 1999
10,490
4
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KevinMU1, you can take your argument one step further, since the consumer will pretty much blindly buy in to what they are fed, the companies aren't motivated to make any real advancements and improvements in their products. So really, the consumer is not only getting shafted now, they are getting shafted down the road as well. But as AmusedOne pretty much said, it's the consumer's own damn fault for being ignorant on what exactly they are buying and supporting. And with the ease that information flows in this day and age, there is no excuse for not doing a little research before you buy something.
 

KevinMU1

Senior member
Sep 23, 2001
673
0
0
Wow, I didn't think that this would generate this much response.

What happened to #3? I don't know. I think 4 should have been 3. ;)

I'm not advocating a "we're #2, we try harder" campaign but rather just some truth and modesty without the arrogance.

What I wanted to respond most to, however, was "We don't NEED any more laws, or restrictions on businesses or individuals. What we need is a return to the concept on individual responsibility. If you're suckered, nine times out of ten it's your own fault. Look at the idiots in the Hot Deals forum who, after being told repeatedly from many different sources that GPS computers was a scam, went ahead and ordered computers from them. Hell, GPS even had a shill on the forums."

I totally agree--we are living in the society of victims, and it drives me nuts. Not that it's on-topic to the original post, but it's another thing to talk about LOL. For some reason it's cool to be a victim, and it is NEVER the victim's fault; it drives me up a wall.

Maybe it's a good thing that this post didn't get much traffic on the site I originally posted it on (rantITraveIT), else I would have even more people calling me an idiot. ;) Although if anyone wants to bash me more there are more rants there hehe
 

Noriaki

Lifer
Jun 3, 2000
13,640
1
71


<< The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings. The inherent virtue
of socialism is the equal sharing of misery. - Churchill

That's the original quote.
>>

That's the one! Thanks :)
 

CocaCola5

Golden Member
Jan 5, 2001
1,599
0
0


<<

<< The great flaw in cap. economies probably is the belief that it's the law of supply and demand alone that governs the fair pricing of goods and service, and all based on natural "market conditions", when to the contrary, nearly as often it is based on mis-informed consumers and or false advertising. >>



Capitalism is freedom. With freedom comes responsibility. One of those responsibilities is "buyer beware."

If the public acts stupidly, DON"T pass another freakin law stomping on the necks of honest businesses. EDUCATE the consumer.

You canot have freedom with nannystate laws designed to protect us from our own stupidity and/or ignorance. The more the government watches out for individuals, the more individual rights we lose.

We don't NEED any more laws, or restrictions on businesses or individuals. What we need is a return to the concept on individual responsibility. If you're suckered, nine times out of ten it's your own fault. Look at the idiots in the Hot Deals forum who, after being told repeatedly from many different sources that GPS computers was a scam, went ahead and ordered computers from them. Hell, GPS even had a shill on the forums.
>>





My point was not to bring attention to the role of government, I couldn't care less.
 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
29,470
1
81


<< What happened to #3? I don't know. I think 4 should have been 3. ;) >>



Fair enough :)

What I wanted to respond most to, however, was "We don't NEED any more laws, or restrictions on businesses or individuals. What we need is a return to the concept on individual responsibility. If you're suckered, nine times out of ten it's your own fault.



<< Look at the idiots in the Hot Deals forum who, after being told repeatedly from many different sources that GPS computers was a scam, went ahead and ordered computers from them. Hell, GPS even had a shill on the forums." >>



In their heads, they were working with expected values.

They figured that there was a 1 in 100 chance of getting something worth $500 so as long as they weren't spending more than $5 worth of time, effort, etc. then it was worth it to them...



<< I totally agree--we are living in the society of victims, and it drives me nuts. Not that it's on-topic to the original post, but it's another thing to talk about LOL. For some reason it's cool to be a victim, and it is NEVER the victim's fault; it drives me up a wall. >>



Yeah...I hate that too.
 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
5,755
0
0


<< If the public acts stupidly, DON"T pass another freakin law stomping on the necks of honest businesses. EDUCATE the consumer. >>


This is exactly why I have a a lifetime membership in the Consumers Union (Consumer Reports). And it is a matter of supply and demand. As long as the uninformed are buying junk (demand) someone will be willing to supply it.