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Question Can't see SATA Port Drives when Booting DOS to make Backups?

Z15CAM

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Can see them in Win GUI CMD DOS but what good is that if Windows has CRASHED or is Infected.

I have a C7H MB with a 3700X with latest BIOS and Drivers .

My 1st BIOS supported 3000 series CPU's and did not disable PCIe 4. I was using a 2600X and had no issues navigation with a WinME Dos Boot USB to Fat32 32GB partitions which each contained a copy of DOS GHOST.EXE and the appropriate INI which are located on the SATA Ports to run GHOST Backups for all my NTFS Partitions and Fat 32 Boot partition. I have a NMVe in the M2 2 PCIe slot, 2 x's 500 SSD's in RAID-0 on 2 Sata ports for a 1GB Playground or scratch drive, a 4 TB GPT drive for Media Storage and a DVD Optic.

After installing a 3700X, using the latest 3004 BIOS, upon booting into dos using a ME DOS USB thumb I get ERROR "INVALD DRIVE SPECIFICATION" when searching for Drives located on the SATA Ports but can still see my Primary Boot M2 2 PCIe 3 drive. So I can BackUp OS onto a Thumb which is painfully SLOW.

After mounting the 3700X I did notice new hardware named PCIe encryption driver not installed in device Manager and updated the Chipset Driver which I believe just disables PCIe 4 support on the x470 chipset or something to do with the Infinity Fabric.

Had no problem with earlier BIOS's for 3000 series using the 2600X CPU.

Apparently I can't use HDD's for BackUps anymore and forced to use a Dos Bootable Thumb that only reads the Primary NMVe Disk in the PCIe 3 M2 2 slot.

It is something to do with the New BIOS UpDate and wondering if there something I have to tweek in BIOS in order for a DOS Boot to see drives on the SATA Ports ?

I've been on the phone with an ASUS Support Worker and he can't seem to come with the answer as to why I can not navigate to drives located on the SATA Ports when booting DOS. They are sending me Ticket to fill in.

Gotta say the support worker with an East India accent did try as we on the phone for over 1/2 hour and he did consult with others but to no avial ;o)

Something Flakey with that latest ROG-CROSSHAIR-VII-HERO-ASUS-3004 BIOS with a 3000 Series CPU !

First time I have ever called for Product Support in my 45 years of working with PC's.
 

extide

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Nov 18, 2009
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Yeah DOS isn't going to support SATA controllers in AHCI mode. Best bet is to build a WinPE boot image or use a linux restore image. You need to switch to more modern tools.

There is a cool tool called parted magic -- but the guy who makes it is violating the GPL by refusing to release source code and bans anyone on his forums when asked to do so -- so normally I would not recommend doing this but go find yourself an ISO of that and boot it up -- it boots into a linux GUI with all sorts of imaging/data recovery tools. Very handy.
 

Z15CAM

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Reading Back Thanks Larry for your input:

Was working just fine using SATA RAID until I UpDated to ASUS's latestASUS 3004 BIOS.

DOS GHOST SERVER v8 Corp_Bld 8.0.0.984 is just 1.36 MB DOS App and did it all for me including Linix and BSD OS's BackUp's until I met this ASUS BIOS v3004 ;o(

Is there Pass threw and I will hack BIOS.
 
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VirtualLarry

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My guess? The new BIOS is "defaulting" to AHCI mode for the SATA ports, or simply reset the BIOS to defaults when you flashed it, and you need to set SATA Mode to "IDE", in order to be seen by DOS.

I really have ZERO experience with NVMe drives in true real-mode DOS, I would imagine that you would need a loadable DOS device-driver to read/write them (*like CD-ROMs/DVDs/BLU-Ray need).

If you can read an NVMe SSD using a true DOS boot-disk, I don't know what to say, other than the UEFI and "Legacy/CSM" BIOS must be providing, I think it's INT 19h emulation for those drives.

Edit: The more that I think about this, I think it's a Legacy/CSM or UEFI drive boot setting thing, combined with Int 19h emulation or not. True real-mode DOS boot disks, don't directly talk to the SATA (IDE) controller. Well, except, Norton Ghost for DOS might.

If you don't need to do anything esoteric with the drives, besides just reading the file-system to backup and restore, see if you can enable Int19h (maybe I'm thinking of Int 13h? Which one was the disk I/O one? Maybe 13h. 10h was video, and 19h is the boot vector, I think.), and select the switches on DOS Norton Ghost to use DOS/BIOS to access the disk, rather than "direct hardware I/O".
 

Z15CAM

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KEEP IT COMING from you GURU's - ASUS Support doesn't have the answer yet !

Maybe I should "DISABLE" CSM just for the DOS Boot ?

Will do it and let you know. I've never had a DOS Boot fail like this.

I'm listening to you Larry.
 
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Z15CAM

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Maybe the BIOS over-write was corrupted and then download another copy and do it over again ?

They are some things I would say by can't concerning Microsoft and ASUS. Intel tried to *&$# with DOS with their BIOS's and failed.

Maybe I gotta rebuild the BIOS SATA Raid Configuration as I don't see the Raid Configuration on Post; however, it works in Windows under Raid Expert 2 ?

Really who cares about MS Win GUI when you're in DOS ! Perhaps Disabling CMS in BIOS per DOS Boot as DOS only lives in RAM and gone with each ReBoot - Will let you know !

Something in this ASUS 3004 Bios is blocking my SATA Ports when Booting DOS.
I'm rambling like Buildzoid with a hair on his back. Buildzoid reminds of Brian Cox. Too intelligent for their own being ;o)

Been testing 2 or three days now without any sleep - Signed: "SafeMode" - "The Village Idiot" knows who I am.

Happy to hear from you old DOS Guys ;o)
 
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Z15CAM

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From what I understand CSM is only for a Win Boot - Not a DOS Boot - Hold on for the next few days - I'm sure I can figure this out ?

Everybody is pointing at CSM, including ASUS Support Team, and they want it Enabled - Yes My Bios has CSM Enabled - Hummm !
 
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Insert_Nickname

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May 6, 2012
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My 1st BIOS supported 3000 series CPU's and did not disable PCIe 4. I was using a 2600X and had no issues navigation with a WinME Dos Boot USB to Fat32 32GB partitions which each contained a copy of DOS GHOST.EXE and the appropriate INI which are located on the SATA Ports to run GHOST Backups for all my NTFS Partitions and Fat 32 Boot partition. I have a NMVe in the M2 2 PCIe slot, 2 x's 500 SSD's in RAID-0 on 2 Sata ports for a 1GB Playground or scratch drive, a 4 TB GPT drive for Media Storage and a DVD Optic.
Yeah DOS isn't going to support SATA controllers in AHCI mode. Best bet is to build a WinPE boot image or use a linux restore image. You need to switch to more modern tools.
A WinME DOS boot? Norton GHOST?

It's time to update your toolbox.

For complete disk backup, there are Macrium Reflect and Acronis True Image. You can use them from within Windows, even on system drives. Since they use Volume Shadow Copy.

If you need a pristine system on every boot, take a look at Faronics Deep Freeze.

For everyday backup, copying your important files to an external drive work fine.

Had no problem with earlier BIOS's for 3000 series using the 2600X CPU.
Best bet? Ryzen has some of it's SATA ports coming directly from the CPU. This may have worked with the older CPU, then something has changed with the newer 3000-series to make it incompatible.

You really can't expect a 20+ year old OS to support the newest hardware without some quirks. It gets a bit complicated, but new UEFI-based firmware relies a a legacy BIOS interpreter when booting older OSs. Not all functions may be available. There has even been talk of dropping the legacy BIOS interface completely, since Windows has supported UEFI boot since 7*.

*Vista actually does too, to a certain extent. It's just a nightmare to enable...

My guess? The new BIOS is "defaulting" to AHCI mode for the SATA ports, or simply reset the BIOS to defaults when you flashed it, and you need to set SATA Mode to "IDE", in order to be seen by DOS.

That is not an option any more on the AM4 platform. You'd need an AM3(+) or FM2(+) system to run SATA drives in IDE mode.
 

VirtualLarry

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That is not an option any more on the AM4 platform. You'd need an AM3(+) or FM2(+) system to run SATA drives in IDE mode.
Really? I didn't even realize that. Does that mean that you can't run 32-bit Windows XP on an AM4 platform! For shame! What will the OP do, if he ever decides to upgrade from WinME?
 

serpretetsky

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Jan 7, 2012
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Really? I didn't even realize that. Does that mean that you can't run 32-bit Windows XP on an AM4 platform! For shame! What will the OP do, if he ever decides to upgrade from WinME?
I ran windows xp in AHCI mode. Just need to load the floppy driver during install :).
 

Z15CAM

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Well I have to agree with you guys and update to a Newer back system. Probably Acronis

Its really a shame as that 1.35 Mb DOS GHOST worked on this very setup with the 2600X and a previous BIOS.

By the will typing this a got a call from from an ASUS Teck confirming all said here.

That's life. Gotta move on - Thanks People ;o)
 
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VirtualLarry

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Here's a theory. The UEFI has a "DOS/BIOS-compatible core/emulator" for use with DOS boot disks, and when they came out with the 3rd-gen / 3000-series Ryzen CPUs, they modified the AGESA stuff, and dropped support for older APUs (Bristol Ridge), due to lack of ROM space for the BIOS core updates. They may have dropped the DOS/BIOS emulation stuff at the same time. (Just a theory, but probably as good as any other, why it no longer works with new CPU and new UEFI revision.)
 

RLGL

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Jan 8, 2013
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serpretetsky :



Really? I didn't even realize that. Does that mean that you can't run 32-bit Windows XP on an AM4 platform! For shame! What will the OP do, if he ever decides to upgrade from WinME?
Come out from the fog, things, time and everything changes!
 

Z15CAM

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After reviewing Acronis and Macrium Reflect, I've decided on Macrium Reflect Home 7 Edition and make WinPE USB ESD Boot Thumbs.

However, I keeping DOS Ghost v8 on my Asus P8Z68V Pro-Gen3 with Win7 64-Bit.
 

Insert_Nickname

Diamond Member
May 6, 2012
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Really? I didn't even realize that. Does that mean that you can't run 32-bit Windows XP on an AM4 platform! For shame! What will the OP do, if he ever decides to upgrade from WinME?
Why, of course you can run XP on the AM4 platform. I'd not recommend ME, unless you just adore random crashes, bugs galore and general random weirdness. Heck, you can even run NT 3.1. Just need to virtualize it first... :D

Here's a theory. The UEFI has a "DOS/BIOS-compatible core/emulator" for use with DOS boot disks, and when they came out with the 3rd-gen / 3000-series Ryzen CPUs, they modified the AGESA stuff, and dropped support for older APUs (Bristol Ridge), due to lack of ROM space for the BIOS core updates. They may have dropped the DOS/BIOS emulation stuff at the same time. (Just a theory, but probably as good as any other, why it no longer works with new CPU and new UEFI revision.)
Seems a reasonable assumption. That's probably it.

After reviewing Acronis and Macrium Reflect, I've decided on Macrium Reflect Home 7 Edition and make WinPE USB ESD Boot Thumbs.

However, I keeping DOS Ghost v8 on my Asus P8Z68V Pro-Gen3 with Win7 64-Bit.
If your setup works for that system, there is really no reason to change it. By now it's well proven, and there is much to be said for reliability.
 

Z15CAM

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Well I've commented to Macrium Reflect Home 7 and bought USB 3.1 thumbs: A Sandisk Extreme Go 64GB USB 3.0 (3.1 Gen 1) Type-A USB Flash Drive - SDCZ800-064G-G46 and 2 SanDisk 16GB Ultra Fit USB 3.1 Low-Profile Flash Drives SDCZ430-016G-G46.

Hate loosing a DOS Boot for Sata Drives: BUT, DOS still works with a USB Flash drive formatted Fat32 32GB with a Win ME Boot Image with GHOST.EXE on board and you can BackUp NMve PCIe3 M2.1 and M2.2 Drives using DOS GHOST to a 32GB Fat32 Flash Drive. Just painfully slow and your limited to 32GB's. Compared to faster SATA mounted drives partition off in FAT32 32 GB's partitions which you can no longer find with these new UEFI " RGB CRAP" BIOS's. Hopefully I see my BackUp SATA HDD using Macrium Reflect in ESD Boot ?

I do not want to have anything do with Windows GUI when I BackUp - And I do not Trust a Win ESD WIM Boot using CMD. MS and their cohorts are robbing our security by eliminating DOS.

Yet Win can only boot using a DOS Boot partition. Makes you Wonder.

Haven't fully tested it yet but I say you can put 100 GB's of Compressed NTFS Data into a Fat32 32GB volume using Ghost in Spanned 701 Mb volumes. Back when you where burning CD's ;o)
 
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Z15CAM

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Create a DOS Bootable USB without Permissions with WINX: As WinX seems incapable of making a DOS Bootable USB or Image. HP USB Disk Storage Format Tool use to work great with Win7 to create a DOS Bootable 32GB USB - Don't work now with WinX and New BIOS's as I get an ERROR saying "This device is being used by another application" What application ?

Insert a USB Drive and open Rufus with Adm Writes:

1 - Under Boot selection choose "Free DOS" and Execute.

2- Reboot and copy the files from a MEBOOT DISC to that USB including GHOST, FDISK, FORMAT and DELPART... etc and DO NOT overwrite files "SKIP these Files" for instance like "AUTOEXEC.BAT" and "COMMAND.COM".

3- Reboot and TEST the DOS USB Boot through BIOS check all DOS EXE's especially "ghost.exe -split=701"

4- You need a 32GB USB to hold all your DATA as 16MB isn't enough !

SADLY a VERY SLOW BackUp proceeds as USB takes about an 1 hr compared to a 16 min SATA BackUp. Why because SATA is no longer a recognized drive in DOS with these NEW BIOS's.

Thankfully M2 NMVe PCIe is recognized by DOS as Win has always booted from a DOS FAT32 Partition.

Going to try Macrium Reflect with the WIM ESD WinPE Boot USB's VS's possible recognition of SATA drives and 32 GB FAT32 Partitions next ?

Something stinks in Denmark ;o)
 
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Z15CAM

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I'm also prospecting older Intel Boards like the Intel Z68 with Sandy Bridge CPU's using to days RGB AIO's on whether the MB can POST - seemliness NOT so far.

Seems Sandy Bridge will not post the MB unless the BIOS recognizes a CPU Fan header in which case these Modern RGB AIOs insist on a USB header ?

Seems to me valuable BIOS Volume is being used by RGB crap and we can no longer see Sata Drives when booting DOS

This real real CRAP !!!

I'm at a lost right now !
 
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extide

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Uhh, I have never seen a mobo not post the CPU simply because it does not detect a fan. They frequently will whine about it, but I haven't seen one straight up refuse to post.
 

Z15CAM

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On going story with these ASUS P8Z68-V Pro Gen3 MB's. Had 2 of them that worked perfectly on a test bench with i7 2700K's to over 5 Ghz's. Gave them my friend who washed the MB with 70% isopropyl alcohol and now they will not Post ;o(

Granted the CMOS Battery's were low but still with new batteries did not post.

He said the CMos battery was removed and the MB discharged prier to washing ?

Isopropyl Alcohol killed my ASUS P8Z68-V Pro Gen3 MB's - Is it Possible ?

Personally I never a believed cleaning MB's by sinking MB's in Isopropyl other the just using isopropyl with a Q-Tip and some compressed air.

HIC ;o)

I should have started a new thread re: this sub topic but Z15CAM does attract attention on AnandTech Forums as it's my work shop !
 
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Z15CAM

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Any MB should be able to POST with a working CPU and PSU, NO case speaker BEEP without a CMOS Battery, RAM or a Video card indicates the BIOS is scrambled !

If you don't get a beep from the case speaker "You're screwed" - Meaning the MB is DEAD!

What really gets me is that ASUS forsake emulating DOS in BIOS and used the Bios volume to invoke more RGB Crap with their latest BIOS for their MB's.

I could keep ranting on forever about this ASUS BIOS crap omitting SATA Drives . Sure Macrium Reflect will do it with an ESD WIM Boot for a cost but once you have used ReDeploy to New Hardware you have to buy a new License for the New PC where the old 1.36 MB DOS Ghost.exe app could do it for FREE with an Inturrupted Win Update install image - I'm sure Virtual Larry understands ;o)

The Standard edition of Macrium Reflect does not contain ReDeploy, neither do any of the 30 day trial editions. The whole BackUp thing has become a Money Quagmire.
 
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