Can't get pencil trick to work?

[Funeral]

I can't seem to get the pencil trick to unlock my processor. I've tried like 4 times already and it's starting to get annoying taking the motherboard out of the case so much.

Whenever I place the processor back into the socket and partially reassemble to test it, it boots fine. I get into the bios and change the multiplier from 6.5x to 7.0x, a very modest overclock, and save the settings. It begins to reboot but the screen just stays black. I don't get the VGA Bios message, and I don't get the POST messages. I also tried to increase the voltage to 1.7v but that didn't help.

Anyone know what's up with this? I've been very careful to connect only the L1 bridges vertically and not to cross-connect them. I've used 2 mechanical pencils and a regular #2. I also blew the loose graphite off of the top after connecting the bridges.

I've got a conductive pen on the way, but it's still kinda odd. I've not heard of anyone else with a similar problem.

AMD Duron 650
MSI K7T Pro 2A
Thermaltake Super Orb
GeForce DDR

 

[paruhd0x]

It took me three tries.

 

[Homebrew]

Its probably just the pencil your using. I tried a regular mechanical and it did exactly as you describe.
Hunted down a old staedtler art pencil (4b) softlead and its been working fine for a few days. Others recommend using a 5H pencil.

 

[cpars]

Ive done several with the old mech pencil might want to get the old magnifying glass and take a look and make sure you connected the dots right on the L1.I did put some the wifes acrylic on one that was working and it quit so i had to remove, probably used to much and washed some away, anyway penciled in again and fine. What are your lights looking like maybe you just need to clear the cmos.

 

[006agent]

use a credit card to seperate the bridges then scrible away...20-25 passes will do.

use a mech pencil .05 lead sharpened first on paper..

 

[Dan]

The first time I tried the pencil trick it took 5 or 6 times to get it right. I've since done several Durons & T-Birds and got it right the first time on every one.

Like cpars I've resorted to a magnifying glass. (The old eyes aren't what they used to be. )

006agent: using a credit card to separate the bridges while you mark over them is a great suggestion. I'll be using that one!

 

[argonaut56]

Funeral,
I have a very similar setup that you do.. To get my multiplyers to work I had to do this.. I first traced my L1 bridges.. booted the computer and went into bios.. change the multiplyer to what you want (7.0x) and then save changes the computer would then boot up with no screen.. I hit the power button until it shut off.. then turned it back on and it will post at default multiplyer, then shut the system off after it posts and then back on. Then you should see the 7x multiplyer in effect.

This worked for me... took me forever to figure this one out!

AMD Duron 650 @ Sadly can only get up to 750 stable (for now anyways)
MSI K7T Pro2-A

 

[Funeral]

Whoa, that is the weirdest thing I have heard. It worked though!
H.Oda says that I'm kickin it at 700mhz now. I'm gonna go reboot a billion times and play with that multiplier some more.
Thanks!

 

[Nitzylpick]

Funeral, I had the same problem. After setting the multiplier nothing would post. Even turning it off and back on did nothing. You can clear the CMOS with the jumpers. Take it off 1,2 pins and put it on 2,3 then put it back on 1,2. This will clear all the CMOS settings you put in.

PS. Why are you taking the motherboard in and out? You should only need to take the cpu out of the socket if you are reapplying the pencil. Boy that HSF combo is a pain to get on those socket slugs.:|
Jewelers 10x loupes work nicely looking at those tiny little dots and lines. Jewlers tweezers work nicely on those jumpers too.

 

[Funeral]

No, I don't think you understood my last reply. The funky reboot trick worked great, and I didn't have to reset my CMOS.

Also, I take the motheboard out because it is easier to put the heatsink back on. If I thought it was easy enough to do with it in the case, I would have done so.

 

[Nitzylpick]

How annoying is it to have to reboot multiple times? The CMOS clear you've only changed the muliplier and the voltage and you were gonna do that anyway, so how can that be annoying? The rest of the CMOS stuff you can change once you're stable.

Ok maybe it's just your case. I find it easier to put it on within the case being able to use it as a brace and in case (no pun intended ) the screwdriver slips I don't go driving into the mb.

 

[Funeral]

Oh, I don't use a screwdriver at all when adding or removing the heatsink. With the motherboard out of the case, I can do it with my hand.

Maybe I am missing something, doesn't resetting the CMOS after changing the multiplier in the bios also reset the multiplier back to default?

 

[Nitzylpick]

Or maybe I'm missing something. What kind of heatsink are you using? Mine would hurt my hand if I tried it.

Yes it restores it to the default. You're saying that your new settings would work after the funky reboot? I believe mine would do the same thing after I turned it off and back on. No bios messages, no nuttin' just the same blank screen.

 

[Funeral]

Yeah, after I rebooted like Argonaut56 did, it worked fine and overclocked. I eventually got it my 650 up to 850 @ 1.7 volts. I tried going to 900 but it wouldn't post and on reboot it would boot at 500.

I set the Multiplier and Voltage in BIOS, then saved and exited. When it would exit the bios it would stay black. I would hold the power button to shut it off, and then once it shut off, I would turn it back on. Right after it does the memory test I hit the power button and it shuts off. When I turn it back on again, it posts at the adjusted multiplier and boots properly.

Why this works, I don't know.

I have a Thermaltake SuperOrb. I probably could take it off the chip by hand in the case but getting it back on the socket is difficult. While the motherboard is out of the case it is totally easy.

 

[Nitzylpick]

Hmm. My problem was even after I shut the power down, the bios wouldn't even post after turning it back on for some reason. No memory test no nothing. I guess I'll try it again when I get home and keep Argo's reboot trick in mind to try if I get the bios to start.

I think I need to repencil the bridges. I didn't put much lead on the first time (2 or 3 passes with a No. 2 pencil) so I think that might be my problem. I was able to use the 7.5x but 8.0x wouldn't post. I tried 8.5 and it posted but said 700MHz during the bios check. So I guess that I didn't connect all the bridges well enough. The best I got this morning was 788 (7.5x105). Then I started trying 9x100 and I started getting into these problems. You really have to go incrementally and it takes more time but it's more thorough.

 

[Poof]

Why this works, I don't know.

I might hazard a guess from a couple of similar posts elsewhere and speculation (I have the same mobo but also observed the same on my Abit BE6-2 when OCing to a high FSB, ie., > 133). When you increase the Vcore beyond the default, as I understand it, it'll still try to POST at default Vcore rather than at your increased Vcore, and will then switch to the higher voltage. Thus you don't get enough juice that 1st time to kick it over (geez... like trying to start a car... ).

Now I'm no EE but I think the explanation I recall was (and it was similar to a different problem that we had with some notebooks that wouldn't POST until after the 2nd try) that the capacitors weren't being charged enough to kick it over. The 2nd (or sometimes 3rd) boot supplied enough additional charge to the capacitors (that had retained the small amount that was supplied the 1st or 2nd time), to get it past the POST...

Anyone want to verify?

(this was kinda fascinating actually... )

 

[Nitzylpick]

Thanks for the info Poof. Seems to make sense to your average engineer.

BTW what do you do with 10 Rigs? That's more than a different one for every day of the week.

 

[Poof]

LOL...

The addiction to SETI, RC5, Folding@home... blah blah...

*stats!!!*

Actually, they were all bought or built as a home learning exercise... I have an 11th (a Duron 700@956 in the mobo being discussed here) that I don't think will fit into the rigs page, because I think the limit is 10 machines! :Q)

 

[kingz]

my friend had the exact same problem, gotta tell him to give the reboot a try. This has something to do with the MSI K7T Pro2a?

 

[Funeral]

Poof, I'm not sure if the capacitor thing is really the culprit here. Granted, I am not an engineer, nor do I claim to be.

It seems to me that an initial jump from 650->700 shouldn't have that much more significant a power drain. Additonally, after rebooting in said fashion, any time the system is booted fresh from that point it boots at the new mulitplier. I only needed to do the funky reboot in order to get the system to boot once like that. It boots fine overclocked once you get past the first one.

Also, wouldn't the capacitors charge to their maximum extent all the time, unless they were currently in a state of discharge? This would provide the maximum amount of stored energy in case of a sudden increase in power demand.

 

[Poof]

Also, wouldn't the capacitors charge to their maximum extent all the time, unless they were currently in a state of discharge? This would provide the maximum amount of stored energy in case of a sudden increase in power demand.

That's what was supposed to happen... But at least in the case of our notebooks, it wasn't happening, ie., it was bad enough that the notebooks weren't normally used that much (they were signed out on an "as needed" basis), but the capacitors weren't receiving a full charge that first time and it took at least 2 boots to get it up to full load. And apparently after being off for x amount of time, they discharged again...

Needless to say, the notebooks were sent back...