canon powershot videos super huge file size

Riceninja

Golden Member
May 21, 2008
1,841
3
81
hey guys,

i was shooting some videos with a canon elph 300 hs, which is 1080p outputting to h264 .MOV format. after transferring the videos to my comp i noticed that a 3 min clip would use up to 800 mbs - at 33000kbps!

is there an easy way or automated software to reduce the file down to a manageable size for uploading? preferably in something other than .mov as well.

thanks
 

angry hampster

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2007
4,232
0
0
www.lexaphoto.com
If you're using Windows, download Windows Live Movie Maker and convert it to a smaller resolution and change it to .avi or.mpg.

There should be a setting in the camera to change the video resolution as well.
 

AnitaPeterson

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2001
6,022
561
126
Yes.

Use Handbrake, to transcode the videos into .mkv or .mp4 files.

From a much older post on these forums, pertaining to the Canon SX1 camera (but, needless to say, it would apply to your files as well):

"As you all know, the 1080p .MOV files produced by the SX1 are just too damn big, and Canon has really dropped the ball on this.

I've found what seems to be an excellent solution. Best of all? It's completely FREE.
The program is called Handbrake. You can download it for free from the author's site, http://handbrake.fr/ .

The following information comes from a respected member of the Handbrake forums, and was tailored especially to suit the files coming from the Canon:

- First, upgrade to the latest Handbrake (currently at 0.9.5.)
- Pick the High Profile preset.
- Set Anamorphic none (in Picture Settings on Windows, Picture Settings->Size tab on a Mac). Turn off decomb and detelecine (in the Picture Settings on Windows, Picture Settings->Filters tab on a Mac) since the .MOV files are neither interlaced nor telecined, and turn on denoise weak (or even medium, see below) in the same location.
- Crank the quality down on the Video tab. For your first try, use RF 27.
- Check the "Web optimized" button, which allows you to stream the resulting files - it adds just a few seconds to the end of the encoding process to write metadata for faster streaming, and makes no change to the quality or file size.

With the settings above, you'll obtain a reduction of about 90% (!) of the original filesize, with no apparent visual loss. If you want to try for two-pass encoding instead of constant bitrate, 4 Mbps is in the normal range for homemade 1080p content.

Keep in mind, though, that with x264, CRF (constant quality) and 2-pass will give nearly identical results at the same bitrate. The difference is that 2-pass targets an average bitrate and ADJUSTS THE QUALITY TO MEET IT, whereas CRF TARGETS A QUALITY LEVEL and adjusts the bitrate to meet it.

The encoding speed isn't great, but you can queue a bunch to run overnight. That's the price of good quality and small file sizes. (*January 2012 edit: In these days of multi-core processors, this should be much less of a problem!*)

And last, play around with the denoise settings - weak vs. medium - on a few clips; I suspect weak is good enough for the well lit scenes, but you may want medium on the noisier ones. Also, you can try to push the RF as high as you can without noticing a reduction in picture quality; with appropriate denoise you may be happy with 30, which will further reduce file sizes by about 50% from 27 !"
 
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Gintaras

Golden Member
Dec 28, 2000
1,892
1
71
hey guys,

i was shooting some videos with a canon elph 300 hs, which is 1080p outputting to h264 .MOV format. after transferring the videos to my comp i noticed that a 3 min clip would use up to 800 mbs - at 33000kbps!

is there an easy way or automated software to reduce the file down to a manageable size for uploading? preferably in something other than .mov as well.

thanks

http://www.videohelp.com/
 

Gooberlx2

Lifer
May 4, 2001
15,381
6
91
Yeah, just use handbrake to compress better to mp4 format. Honestly, 33Mbps isn't out of line compared to other cameras. The cameras probably don't have the power to use sophisticated x264 parameters in order to take advantage of lower bitrates, and maintain IQ, framerate, etc... So they crank the bitrate instead.

I'd just the try high profile defaults first and see if you're satisfied. At best, adjust the quality level as needed (lower is better). Just remember it's logrithmic, so small adjustments have big impact. IIRC, Handbrake themselves claim that high profile at RF 18 is as reasonably low as nearly anyone should need to go.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
40,868
10,222
136
If you're using Windows, download Windows Live Movie Maker and convert it to a smaller resolution and change it to .avi or.mpg.

There should be a setting in the camera to change the video resolution as well.

WMM (in my Windows XP SP3 machine) will not accept the .mov 1.1GB file created with my Canon ELPH 100 HS, says unsupported file type. Is "Windows Live Movie Maker" something different?

... um, I guess so. It evidently works on Vista and Win7, so I could work on my Win7 laptop.

Edit: I just downloaded and installed the latest version of Handbrake (.98), made most of the changes that Anita suggested in her post here. I couldn't find the High Profile preset, but I see it now, however my encoding of my 1.1GB 4:31 .MOV file is already underway, a 2 pass procedure. Looks like it's gonna be around 2.5 hours in the making..., well maybe a lot less, the process seems to have sped up suddenly! It's projected at about 45 minutes now.

I needed some way to reduce the file size. Neither Picasa or Youtube will accept over 1GB uploads, evidently.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
40,868
10,222
136
Running Handbrake 0.98, my first try wasn't satisfactory. The file size was about 5% of the original 1080p ELPH created .MOV file, but the video quality is pretty lousy, so I'm doing a second try with these settings (most suggested by Anita here):

Preset High
Anamorphic None
Quality 18.5 (That's my idea, the first try was the default 20, lower numbers are better quality)
Detelecine Off
Decomb Off
Deinterlace Off (the default)
Denoise Weak (Anita Peterson recommended that)
Web streaming checked

The encoding is going reasonably fast with these settings.

It's going a LOT faster now. Hope to get around 200MB from my 1.1GB original, that would be fine I think. Just want reasonable quality and success uploading to Picasa.
 

AnitaPeterson

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2001
6,022
561
126
Glad to be of help! You have to experiment with a couple of settings, and see what you like best. My experience says you can get about 85-90% reduction in size, with minimum loss of quality. That 5% resulting size you mentioned is probably too much (are you still keeping the result at 1080p?)
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
40,868
10,222
136
Glad to be of help! You have to experiment with a couple of settings, and see what you like best. My experience says you can get about 85-90% reduction in size, with minimum loss of quality. That 5% resulting size you mentioned is probably too much (are you still keeping the result at 1080p?)
Yeah, I guess it's still at 1080p, I didn't change that. Your suggestions didn't mention (AFAIK) changing that. I am pretty much a noob at video reencoding. I've used DVDRebuilder for a few years, just the automatic settings of it with a suggested encoder, also free. Have never tried adjusting anything in it other than choosing English subtitles.

My 2nd try (really my 3rd, because the 2nd try was going so slowly and I thought it wasn't going to work, anyway, so I terminated it), will finish in about 15 minutes, it's 92% done. It will be around 550MB, so about 1/2 the size of the original. Think I'll have to upload it to Picasa before I'll know how good it'll look. That will take some time, so I won't know for a while if it's OK. I figure it will be reasonably OK, it's not a big deal!
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
40,868
10,222
136
how'd it turn out?
It worked out OK. Couldn't upload the 1.1GB video, but once I got it reencoded to about 1/2 that size, I could upload it (the limit is 1.0 GB), and it plays OK, at least on my system from the Picasa album. Funny thing is my computers don't play the videos as nicely from the native .mov files on local hard drives as they do from the uploaded files at Picasa.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
40,868
10,222
136
Latest version of Handbrake is:
- - -
HandBrake 0.9.8 Released!
Wednesday, July 18, 2012
- - -
http://handbrake.fr/

I'm about to download, install and run it on around 10 .mov files I shot on my Canon 100HS ELPH, in an effort to reduce the cumulative filesize down under ~4GB from the current 6.6GB. They won't even run decently on my computers, but my experience is the transformed files once uploaded by Picasa will run fine. The new Picasa wants me to create Google+ album, has a 5GB limit before you have to sign up for monthly storage space.
 
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AnitaPeterson

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2001
6,022
561
126
For older machines, I found a piece of software called Mirillis Splash (and Splash Pro).

It's amazingly nimble at playing video files that would otherwise stutter in MPC or VLC... I don't know how they do it but they're damn good at it. This software can run the 1080p files from the Powershot cameras on P4@2.5 GHz CPUs!
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
40,868
10,222
136
For older machines, I found a piece of software called Mirillis Splash (and Splash Pro).

It's amazingly nimble at playing video files that would otherwise stutter in MPC or VLC... I don't know how they do it but they're damn good at it. This software can run the 1080p files from the Powershot cameras on P4@2.5 GHz CPUs!
I'm going to give this a try:

Splash Lite v. 1.8.1

None of my PCs play the ELPH videos acceptably. Interesting thing is, uploaded to a Picasa web album, they play quite well, rather smoothly and no evident problems with audio/visual synch. Just uploaded around a dozen videos and 97 JPGs yesterday, the album is great.

Edit: The installation wants to change your home page and install "delta" toolbar and some other stuff including an ad provider. :eek: . If you don't want that stuff (I didn't), you should step through the installation carefully. The installation also closed all my Firefox windows and tabs and restarted Firefox with its own window to get the installation going (odd, and pretty inconvenient to say the least, and a complete shock). It also wanted to associate all audio and video files with Splash Lite. I deselected the audio and a couple of the video extensions.

Edit 2: Well, the .mov videos taken with the ELPH 100HS (1080p) play (VLC played the audio but only showed the first frame of the video), but it's terribly choppy on my desktop machine. One second of playback, followed by one second of frozen video and silence, another second of playback, more freeze, etc. etc. etc. Gonna have to uninstall it from the desktop, which is this system:

Gigabyte GA-K8n Pro motherboard Specs: http://ee.gigabyte.com/products/page/mb/ga-k8n_pro/
AMD Athlon 64 3200+ (socket 754, FSB1600, E6, Venice, 90nm, L2-512KB, 2GHz processor)
BFG Tech GeForce 6600GT OC 128MB DDR3 AGP Dual DVI Video Card w/TV-Out
2 sticks Crucial 1GB PC3200 400MHz 184-pin DDR Memory - CT12864Z40B, 2 GB total
Corsair vx550w PSU
USR Model 2977 PCI hardware modem
Hercules GTXP soundcard PCI with breakout box
MyHD MDP-130 HDTV PCI
MyHD MDP-130 HDTV DVI daughterboard
 
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AnitaPeterson

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2001
6,022
561
126
Muse, did you look at the Splash settings, and did you enable the hardware acceleration? That also makes a big difference, and the 6600 should, in theory, provide some rendering help.

Sorry about the embedded adware... nowadays, it seems that every piece of freeware comes with it. I still keep my old downloaded versions, which were all nice and clean.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
40,868
10,222
136
Muse, did you look at the Splash settings, and did you enable the hardware acceleration? That also makes a big difference, and the 6600 should, in theory, provide some rendering help.

Sorry about the embedded adware... nowadays, it seems that every piece of freeware comes with it. I still keep my old downloaded versions, which were all nice and clean.
I didn't realize that there were settings. Somehow the Somoto search engine was installed in spite of my efforts. I'll have to reinstall Splash and give adjustments a try. Thanks.
 

AnitaPeterson

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2001
6,022
561
126
You can also look around the 'net and see if you can get the portable version of Splash - no installation, no adware! :)
 

decodent

Junior Member
Mar 1, 2013
2
0
0
Wow ... am appreciating this thread. I've got a Canon 310 HS and ended up with a 525GB clip that is only 3:14 long. Did an edit & produce of it in Camtasia 8.0.4 and still ended up with a 350MB file. Will try the settings suggested in here for HandBrake and see how it goes.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
40,868
10,222
136
Wow ... am appreciating this thread. I've got a Canon 310 HS and ended up with a 525GB clip that is only 3:14 long. Did an edit & produce of it in Camtasia 8.0.4 and still ended up with a 350MB file. Will try the settings suggested in here for HandBrake and see how it goes.
I suppose you mean 5.25GB file... 1/2 a terabyte is a bit much even for an ELPH.
 

AnitaPeterson

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2001
6,022
561
126
Y'all have made me curious.

I have some new 1080p footage from the SX40, and I'm going to put it through Handbrake tonight or tomorrow, and see if I can/need to tweak the tutorial above... stay tuned :)
 

AnitaPeterson

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2001
6,022
561
126
Hello again, folks!

I've been running some tests on the new Handbrake (v. 0.98), with the intention of upgrading the guide above (if necessary). In the end, I got a lot of data to share with you.

Let's review things step by step:

1. Source file:
4 minutes exactly, 1GB .MOV file, 1080p/24fps, 35,232 kbps bitrate, stereo sound - basically, the highest-possible definition you can obtain with the Powershot camera series, from the SX50 down to the Elph 300.
Note: As a matter of principle, I won't even look at cameras which can record HD video, but only in mono sound.

The footage was from an indoor tennis tournament, so it has quick panning, difficult lighting and some video noise.
Note: ISO 200 was used during filming, and White Balance was left to "Auto" - even though it would have benefited from a "Fluorescent" compensation. All in all, I think the footage should be quite representative for normal camera use.

2. Setup:
I installed Handbrake 0.98 on a machine with the following specifications:

OS: WinXP Service Pack 3
CPU: Intel Core i5-650 @ 3.20GHz (quad-core)
RAM: 3.46 GB (yes, this is a Windows 32-bit installation)

All in all, a relatively middle-of-the road setup, it's even using the integrated Intel graphics.

3. Settings:
Basically, most of what's written above (post #4) has remained unchanged.

Here are the refinements:

- Pick the "High Profile" preset.
- Choose .mp4 or .mkv as your resulting file.
(I personally prefer using .mkv, but to each his own... note that, if you choose .mp4 - which will actually produce .m4v video files! - you should also check the "Web optimized" box, which allows you to stream the resulting files. It adds just a few seconds to the end of the encoding process to write metadata for faster streaming, and makes no change to the quality or file size.)
- Set Anamorphic to "none" in the "Picture" tab.
- Turn off decomb and detelecine in the "Video Filters" tab (the .MOV files are neither interlaced nor telecined); set Denoise to "weak", in that same location.
- Click the "Video" tab. RF 20 is set by default. You can go anywhere between 20 to 30, and a higher number indicates a higher compression rate (and a smaller resulting file). You can try RF 25 for starters (more on that later, when we discuss the test results).
- While you're still in the "Video" tab, change the default setting from "Variable Framerate" to "Constant Framerate". This will ensure better playback compatibility, and reduce the risk of dropped frames on some software/hardware combos.

Further encoding optimizations are as follows:
- Click on the "Audio" tab. Choose AC3 (ffpmpeg) in the second drop-down menu.
(AC3, also known as Dolby Digital, is the most widespread audio format for home theatre, and my personal choice... feel free to use AAC or mp3, if that's your game! Just don't select any of the "passthru" options, since your source file has a different audio format, so some form of transcoding WILL be necessary.)
- Your original audio is stereo only, so choose "Stereo", "Surround" or "Dolby ProLogicII" from the third drop-down menu, depending on what your tastes are.
- By default, the audio bitrate is set to 160kbps. I find that to be a little on the skimpy side, the sweet spot should be around 256 kbps.
- Last, but not least, click on the "Advanced" tab. Change the Motion Estimation Method setting to "Uneven Multi-Hexagon". Leave everything else the same.

4. Test results:
I produced four different files using different RF values (the crucial setting for compression and resulting file size). Consequently, the machine required markedly different encoding times.

- RF 20 (25 minutes encoding time) - 339 MB size
- RF 23 (22 minutes encoding time) - 185 MB size
- RF 27 (18 minutes encoding time) - 92.2 MB size <-- 11 times smaller than source file!
- RF 30 (10 minutes encoding time) (!) - 62 MB size <-- 16 times smaller than source!

I played the resulting files in VLC, set in a looping playlist, with filenames enabled (allowing me to see which particular encoding scheme was used when I jumped from one file to another).

Subjectively speaking, although I knew that some differences should be discernible between the (enormously different in size) files, I was not able to distinguish between RF 20 and RF 23.

RF 27 looked "almost" as good as the lower two values - it *felt* a bit grainier, but that could be a psychological effect.

By the time I got to RF 30, however, some degradation was perceptible - occasional antialiasing and artifacting were present in high-speed movements, and some slight color banding occurred in background surfaces.
Make no mistake, however - it was still OK for a non-discriminating eye!

5. Conclusion:
The sweet spot for maximum size reduction with minimal quality loss seems to be in the RF 25 - 27 range (which produces files between one-sixth to one-tenth of the original...) Anything above that takes a visible quality hit (law of diminishing returns!)

If you're into archiving, and do not wish to edit the files any further (I know that .mkv can be a pain for non-linear video editing software, but I'm not sure if this applies equally to .mp4/.m4v), you can use a RF 25 value, to be on the safe side.

If you absolutely need to reduce the original video file to its smallest possible size (i.e., for easier transfers), you can go to RF 30.
 
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OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
If you're using Windows, download Windows Live Movie Maker and convert it to a smaller resolution and change it to .avi or.mpg.

There should be a setting in the camera to change the video resolution as well.

And this is reason why i took my camera back. I dont have time to be a video editing studio.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
40,868
10,222
136
And this is reason why i took my camera back. I dont have time to be a video editing studio.

Video can be a bitch. I still have some big projects to complete, it's been years. People were recommending expensive programs. I'd have to shell out big bucks and not even know if I'd like the results. I tried a few programs that came with my hardware but the results were disappointing. Video is a jungle, is my feeling.

Thank you Anita for the Handbrake guides. I have had success using Handbrake using your recommendations getting a file acceptable for Picasa upload. Nowadays when shooting 1080p video with my ELPH, I watch and make sure that the run time is less than 4 minutes. Then I don't have to compress/convert, it'll just upload.
 
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