Canon 50D vs Canon 5D

[sigurros81]

"Better high ISO, better color depth, more RAW headroom". I'm very curious to see these facts you stated backed up by some sort of comparative evidence between the 5D and the 50D. You may be correct, but I have yet to see conclusive proof that a camera that it is.

 

[996GT2]

"Better high ISO, better color depth, more RAW headroom". I'm very curious to see these facts you stated backed up by some sort of comparative evidence between the 5D and the 50D. You may be correct, but I have yet to see conclusive proof that a camera that it is.

If you'd rather look at benchmarks, sure. Here's one benchmark comparing the RAW results from the two cameras. The 50D's dynamic range "appears" to be a bit better in this test because it uses 14 bit processing, which gives it a little bit more DR in the shadows. However, that little bit of extra DR in the shadow range isn't really all that useful. Also, once you go beyond ISO 400, the 5D wins in terms of dynamic range, even though the 50D uses 14 bit processing (vs. 12 bit in the 5D).

And from personal experience (having shot over 15,000 pictures with my 5D) I will definitely say that the 5D's RAW files have more headroom than files from either the 40D or 50D.

 

[sigurros81]

The issue with those numbers there is that the benchmarking is 3 years apart from DXO. Also, the ISO score is rather misleading because the 50D can go much higher than than the 5D, so the drop off at higher ISO will affect its numbers. But I find the whole debate with ISO is just a contest of who spend more money on their camera because unless you're an astrophotographer, you don't want to use that high anyways. The 5Dmk2 is apparently known for great image quality at high ISO, but i find even at 3200ISO, the images are really unflattering.

 

[996GT2]

The issue with those numbers there is that the benchmarking is 3 years apart from DXO. Also, the ISO score is rather misleading because the 50D can go much higher than than the 5D, so the drop off at higher ISO will affect its numbers. But I find the whole debate with ISO is just a contest of who spend more money on their camera because unless you're an astrophotographer, you don't want to use that high anyways. The 5Dmk2 is apparently known for great image quality at high ISO, but i find even at 3200ISO, the images are really unflattering.

Your argument makes no sense...tell me how benchmarking 3 years apart would affect the results? The cameras are tested in standardized conditions, so every camera is tested in the same way. By your faulty logic, an MCAT score from 2008 doesn't mean the same thing as an MCAT score from 2011 simply because the tests were taken on different occasions, which is obviously not true.

Your second argument about high ISO...also not true. Please read how DxoMark calculates their scores. The fact that the 50D has higher "push" ISOs than the 5D has nothing to do with it:

How DxOMark Calculates their ISO score:

The SNR indicates how much noise is present in an image compared to the actual information (signal). The higher the SNR value, the better the image looks, because details aren't drowned by noise. SNR strength is given in dB, which is a logarithmic scale: an increase of 6 dB corresponds to doubling the SNR, which equates to half the noise for the same signal.
An SNR value of 30dB reflects an excellent image quality. Low-Light ISO is then the highest ISO setting for the camera such that the SNR reaches this 30dB value while keeping a good dynamic range of 9 EVs and a color depth of 18bits.

So, the highest ISO at which the 50D can maintain an SNR of 30dB, DR of 9EV, and Color Depth of 18 bits is ISO 696. The highest ISO at which the 5D can maintain the same 30dB SNR, 9EV DR, and 18 bit color depth is much higher: ISO 1368. The 5D Mk. II can maintain the same SNR, DR, and color depth up to ISO 1815.

But I find the whole debate with ISO is just a contest of who spend more money on their camera because unless you're an astrophotographer, you don't want to use that high anyways.

Uh, what? Astrophotography is primarily done at low to moderate ISO (100-800), so I'm not sure what you're even trying to say here.

 

[sigurros81]

Depending on what you're trying to achieve, star trails or the milky way, ISO is rather important. If you want to capture the stars without movement, you're going to need to use high ISO--800, 1600, or 3200 depending on where you are.

But I definitely see your point, the 5D has better handling at higher ISO than the 50D, as the RAW will yield a higher dynamic range on the 5D than the 50D.

 

[twistedlogic]

Depending on what you're trying to achieve, star trails or the milky way, ISO is rather important. If you want to capture the stars without movement, you're going to need to use high ISO--800, 1600, or 3200 depending on where you are.

I believe ISO 1600-3200 helps do to the limitation of DSL-Rs only having a 30-minute exposure.

 

[finbarqs]

If so, that's good for you for you can can eaily stick with APS-C cameras.
To my eyes, the difference is very much evident. Images that I can get with FF cameras and prime lenses, I can't never get them with APS-C cameras. For that reason, I have to stay with FF although there're many great APS-C cameras I'd love to jump-ship.

Point is, it does matter what camera body(also lens) you use. Look at Ansel Adams and Bresson. You don't give Ansel a Leica and Bression a large format and expect them to be fine with it. They knew what it takes, made a great decision, and worked with it. I'm not saying everyone should get the most expensive and feature-packed camera. It's about knowing your need/want and finding the right gear that best matches it. To me, it's FF. For others, it may be a iPhone cam.

BTW, here's a story of Stanley Kubrick. He asked the cinematographer to use 35mm lens (I'm not so sure about the number there) in specific distance. The cinematographer changed it to 50mm along with distance so that the framing reamin the same. Kubrick noticed the difference right away and raised hell.

Ansel shot almost exclusive with large format (8x10's) but he was not very good at shooting portraits and everyday photography. He was good with 1 type of photography, and that's landscape. What made his prints so awesome wasn't the fact that he clicked shutter, but more that he spent weeks in the darkroom POST PROCESSING his images. Hence, his zone system developed specifically for his vision of what he perceived.

Which is what photographers need to learn from one of the pioneers of artistic photography: Post Processing is what makes your images! Granted, I'm not saying Ansel Adams will be amazing at photoshop, but quite the opposite. He'll have a biased towards his methods/and system. But since he's dead, who knows... Maybe he'll love PS?

 

[finbarqs]

biggest problem with the 5D is the build quality of the camera. There was a recall regarding the mirror, or the focusing screen coming loose. And dust will get in the camera on the second day you get it!

 

[sigurros81]

I believe ISO 1600-3200 helps do to the limitation of DSL-Rs only having a 30-minute exposure.

If you're going to shoot a 30 min exposure, you probably won't need to crank your ISO up. It's for when you want to expose the milky way correctly with all the stars static that you'd want to use 1600+.

And yeah, Ansel Adams's post processing is pretty much Photoshop 0.0--his masking was not with a pen tool, but with an actual knife

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/820707/0

5Dc vs 7D!!! WOW @ 5D's AA filter

 

[angry hampster]

biggest problem with the 5D is the build quality of the camera. There was a recall regarding the mirror, or the focusing screen coming loose. And dust will get in the camera on the second day you get it!

I'd never heard of the mirror/screen recall. The sensor in my 5D doesn't collect dust any worse than my 20D, 30D, or T2i do. It's larger, so it has more area that dust can hit..bottom line. Don't be a dummy when you change your lenses and you won't see much.

In comparing my 5D to my T2i (which has the 7D/60D sensor), the depth of field with the 5D is much narrower and easier to manipulate. I can push RAW files MUCH further with the 5D while maintaining a reasonable level of noise. The viewfinder is fantastic and the body feels wonderful.

 

[996GT2]

I'd never heard of the mirror/screen recall. The sensor in my 5D doesn't collect dust any worse than my 20D, 30D, or T2i do. It's larger, so it has more area that dust can hit..bottom line. Don't be a dummy when you change your lenses and you won't see much.

In comparing my 5D to my T2i (which has the 7D/60D sensor), the depth of field with the 5D is much narrower and easier to manipulate. I can push RAW files MUCH further with the 5D while maintaining a reasonable level of noise. The viewfinder is fantastic and the body feels wonderful.

Exactly. This is what I've been saying all along. Compared to the 50D there is even more of an image quality difference because the T2i/7D/60D sensor is an improvement over the 50D's.

 

[finbarqs]

just think of it this way. You get more frame coverage. what you see, is what you get!

 

[metalmania]

I remember DXO results show that Pentax K-X is better than Canon 7D.

 

[finbarqs]

I'd never heard of the mirror/screen recall. The sensor in my 5D doesn't collect dust any worse than my 20D, 30D, or T2i do. It's larger, so it has more area that dust can hit..bottom line. Don't be a dummy when you change your lenses and you won't see much.

In comparing my 5D to my T2i (which has the 7D/60D sensor), the depth of field with the 5D is much narrower and easier to manipulate. I can push RAW files MUCH further with the 5D while maintaining a reasonable level of noise. The viewfinder is fantastic and the body feels wonderful.

my 5D Mark 2 collected more dust than my Nikon D300... that I've had for a year! The 5D started getting dust 3 months in! (I took both my D300 and my 5D Mark 2 to the desert on different trips)

 

[randomlinh]

I'd never heard of the mirror/screen recall.

You should contact canon then. They'll fix it for you. I sent my 5D in (and I got it used) and they did the repair for me.

 

[angry hampster]

You should contact canon then. They'll fix it for you. I sent my 5D in (and I got it used) and they did the repair for me.

That is awesome, thanks for the info. Just got off the phone with Canon and my pre-paid shipping label should arrive in my inbox shortly.

Always satisfied with Canon's customer service and call centers. :thumbsup: Between this, and my recent experience with the Canon Loyalty Program, I'm a customer for life.

my 5D Mark 2 collected more dust than my Nikon D300... that I've had for a year! The 5D started getting dust 3 months in! (I took both my D300 and my 5D Mark 2 to the desert on different trips)

I've not had any major dust issues with my 5D. I've wet-cleaned the sensor twice in the last three years, and use a rocket blower/brush from time to time.

 

[JohnnyRebel]

By your faulty logic, an MCAT score from 2008 doesn't mean the same thing as an MCAT score from 2011 simply because the tests were taken on different occasions, which is obviously not true.

Just addressing this side note, saying that test results are affected by time does not require that time is the only variable. In fact, it would be impossible to limit the variables to just time. Any time (pun) tests are run tons of variables change. The greater the distance, chronologically, the less exact the results will be. The question is not whether the test results mean the exact same thing because it is a given that they do not. The question is whether the differences change the validity of the conclusions drawn by the tester. This is why the discipline of "measurements and evaluation" exists. Equipment calibration, weather, temperature, competence in manufacturing as well as in evaluation all come into play along with a whole bunch of other stuff.

FWIW,

JR

 

[Sp12]

I remember DXO results show that Pentax K-X is better than Canon 7D.

Canon's crop sensors aren't all that hot.

 

[finbarqs]

Pentax has the most natural Dynamic Range out of all the sensors (full frame and crop). Get a Pentax. They do cameras good!

 

[angry hampster]

Pentax has the most natural Dynamic Range out of all the sensors (full frame and crop). Get a Pentax. They do cameras good!

Any comparos to back up that incredulous statement?

 

[Sp12]

It's actually Sony's new 16 megapixel sensor (you know, the current best APS-C) combined with Pentax's proprietary firmware. You can search DXOmark or find raw files yourself, but I do have to give Pentax the nod for dynamic range.

 

[finbarqs]

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Ca.../(brand)/Pentax/(brand2)/Nikon/(brand3)/Canon

d3s, vs 5d mark 2, vs. K5

 

[Cattykit]

So you're saying you can tell from looking at a photo whether it's shot with a full-framed sensor or a cropped one? Impressive.

If money is not an issue, I'd always use a full frame, but as the original poster's predicament, full frame on older body vs. cropped on newer body, I'd go for the newer cropped body if it's cheaper.

Yes, I agree that a full frame is a better camera, but to think that it'll allow you to take better pictures is complete BS.

I did not say FF is a better camera. Read my post again. I said, for some FF is better, for some even iphone is a better camera.

 

[twistedlogic]

Pentax has the most natural Dynamic Range out of all the sensors (full frame and crop).

Overall the pentax has the best average of dynamic range throughout the entire ISO range, followed closely by the Nikon D7000.

But the Fujifilm S5Pro is the king of DR at ISO 200-800, while the D3s is king from ISO 1600 and up.

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Ca...rand)/Pentax/(brand2)/Nikon/(brand3)/Fujifilm