Question CANNOT ACCESS NAS WITHOUT INTERNET CONNECTION

[waghela]

Without internet the PC cannot detect and access to NAS.

Turning on the internet for a few seconds and then turning off I can access the mapped drive of the NAS folder.

That is, it is not possible to access the NAS without an internet connection.

How do I solve this problem?

 

[In2Photos]

How are you "turning on the internet"?

 

[JackMDS]

What turning the Internet means?

You need to describe the configuration/setting of your Network/Internet.

 

[Ken g6]

Also please describe your NAS. Is it something pre-built with drives, something pre-built you add drives to, or a DIY NAS you put together yourself?

 

[waghela]

The Internet is fiber optic with a speed of 1Gbps/400Mbps. The equipment is connected to a wired network (RJ45 cat 6 cable) through an "Ethernet Switch". The desktop and NAS are connected to the "Ethernet Switch", just like the internet cable coming from a router.

The NAS is the "FANTEC CL-35B2" that comes fully equipped with appropriate software. It has two bays for installing two 3.5" SATA III HDDs. At the moment, only one 12 TB HDD has been mounted.

The purpose of the equipment is to read/edit the files from any of the Desktop and Laptop that are connected to the wired network. To prevent malicious intrusion outside my home network, I want the internet to be turned off.

I have already put the address "\\192.168.1.70" in the address bar of File Explorer but the problem persists: I cannot access the NAS when the internet cable is disconnected from the "Ethernet Switch" but it works when the internet is turned on for a few seconds and then disconnected again. That's enough time.

The address "192.168.1.70" in the web browser, opens the NAS login page only when the internet is on, even if only for a few seconds.

 

[iamgenius]

Do you mean when you disconnect the cable coming from your router to your switch you can't access the NAS or similarly when you disconnect the wan cable from your router assuming that you are using your router as a switch? Your router DHCP is handling IP's so it must be there to give ip addresses to your devices.

Your switch needs to be connected to the router in order for DHCP to work, but you don't need internet for that.

Edit: You can do static IP's only with the switch if you don't want to use your router DHCP.

 

[In2Photos]

The Internet is fiber optic with a speed of 1Gbps/400Mbps. The equipment is connected to a wired network (RJ45 cat 6 cable) through an "Ethernet Switch". The desktop and NAS are connected to the "Ethernet Switch", just like the internet cable coming from a router.

The NAS is the "FANTEC CL-35B2" that comes fully equipped with appropriate software. It has two bays for installing two 3.5" SATA III HDDs. At the moment, only one 12 TB HDD has been mounted.

The purpose of the equipment is to read/edit the files from any of the Desktop and Laptop that are connected to the wired network. To prevent malicious intrusion outside my home network, I want the internet to be turned off.

I have already put the address "\\192.168.1.70" in the address bar of File Explorer but the problem persists: I cannot access the NAS when the internet cable is disconnected from the "Ethernet Switch" but it works when the internet is turned on for a few seconds and then disconnected again. That's enough time.

The address "192.168.1.70" in the web browser, opens the NAS login page only when the internet is on, even if only for a few seconds.

As @iamgenius points out there has to be a router in there somewhere. What device is handling the routing? Do you have static IP addresses on the NAS and PC? I'm still unclear which cable you are disconnecting. A typical home network might look something like this although the router may have enough ports to be the Ethernet Switch:

Fiber ONT -1- Home Router -2- Ethernet Switch -3- End Device (NAS/PC)

So which cable are you disconnecting? 1, 2, or 3?

 

[waghela]

Do you mean when you disconnect the cable coming from your router to your switch you can't access the NAS or similarly when you disconnect the wan cable from your router assuming that you are using your router as a switch? Your router DHCP is handling IP's so it must be there to give ip addresses to your devices.

Your switch needs to be connected to the router in order for DHCP to work, but you don't need internet for that.

Edit: You can do static IP's only with the switch if you don't want to use your router DHCP.

I'm not using any router as a switch. I'm connecting the internet to my switch directly from an ethernet cable that comes from one of the ethernet wall sockets I have scattered in various rooms of my house (I think this is what you call WAN, isn't it?).

The only way to access the router is through the ethernet cable coming from the socket and so I can't access the router without connecting to the internet.

Is this the source of my problem, not being connected to the router when I turn off the internet?

How can I create static IP with the switch? 192.168.1.70 is not static IP of the NAS?

 

[waghela]

As @iamgenius points out there has to be a router in there somewhere. What device is handling the routing? Do you have static IP addresses on the NAS and PC? I'm still unclear which cable you are disconnecting. A typical home network might look something like this although the router may have enough ports to be the Ethernet Switch:

Fiber ONT -1- Home Router -2- Ethernet Switch -3- End Device (NAS/PC)

So which cable are you disconnecting? 1, 2, or 3?

Is cable 3 that is connecting directly to Ethernet Switch without router.

PC is not IP static address.

I don't know if 192.168.1.70 NAS address can be consider as a static address.

 

[In2Photos]

I'm not using any router as a switch. I'm connecting the internet to my switch directly from an ethernet cable that comes from one of the ethernet sockets I have scattered in various rooms of my house (I think this is what you call WAN, isn't it?).

The only way to access the router is through the ethernet cable coming from the socket and so I can't access the router without connecting to the internet.

Is this the source of my problem, not being connected to the router when I turn off the internet?

How can I create static IP with the switch? 192.168.1.70 is not static IP of the NAS?

All of those ethernet sockets scattered through the house have to be connected to something. What are they connected to?

When you disconnect the "internet" open up your PC and open up a command window (go to the start menu and type CMD, then enter) When the command prompt opens up type "ipconfig" with the quotes and hit enter. Do you have an IP address?

 

[In2Photos]

Is cable 3 that is connecting directly to Ethernet Switch without router.

PC is not IP static address.

I don't know if 192.168.1.70 NAS address is static.

So you are disconnecting the cable connected from the switch to the NAS?

 

[iamgenius]

As @iamgenius points out there has to be a router in there somewhere. What device is handling the routing? Do you have static IP addresses on the NAS and PC? I'm still unclear which cable you are disconnecting. A typical home network might look something like this although the router may have enough ports to be the Ethernet Switch:

Fiber ONT -1- Home Router -2- Ethernet Switch -3- End Device (NAS/PC)

So which cable are you disconnecting? 1, 2, or 3?

I think he is disconnecting cable 2 if we go by your little diagram. He has a switch which he uses to connect his network devices to, and then this switch is connected to his router just like any typical home LAN. He disconnects the cable coming from the router to the switch and call this turning off the internet. This way there is no DHCP, hence he can't access his NAS from his PC.

You have to keep the router connected in order for the network to function using DHCP. And you don't have to disconnect the cable if you want no internet. Just log in into your router web interface and turn it off from there and that will be it. This way the router will not provide internet but will still function as DHCP server giving your devices IP addresses.

Also, I don't understand why you want to turn off the internet. I mean it is there because you want it !!! There are many ways to secure your devices without cutting off the internet, unless you want physical separation.

 

[In2Photos]

Is cable 3 that is connecting directly to Ethernet Switch without router.

PC is not IP static address.

I don't know if 192.168.1.70 NAS address can be consider as a static address.

OK, that diagram helps. As @iamgenius points out when you disconnect that cable you lose your DHCP from your router and if you don't have static IP addresses assigned to each device connect to the switch then they lose their IP and don't know what to do or how to talk to other devices. As also pointed out the router has built-in firewall protection to help keep your network safe. Can it be cracked, yes. But most hackers aren't interested in trying to get your information that way. It's easier to get you to click on a link in an email.

 

[waghela]

Thank you iamgenius and In2photos for your valuable clarifications that were very enlightening.
Thank you.
Another question: is it possible to increase the security of the home network by installing another router between the wall ethernet socket and the input on the ethernet switch? Does this work?

 

[In2Photos]

Thank you iamgenius and In2photos for your valuable clarifications that were very enlightening.
Thank you.
Another question: is it possible to increase the security of the home network by installing another router between the wall ethernet socket and the input on the ethernet switch? Does this work?

I wouldn't say that that would increase the security. I guess it could since there's another firewall. But placing another router before the switch can lead to trouble if you don't set it up correctly. You typically only want 1 device handling DHCP in a home network. So the second router would need to be set up in bridge mode. What is your end goal? To be able to disconnect that switch from the Internet and still access the NAS from different devices attached to the switch? If so you just need static IP addresses for each device. Alternatively you could disconnect the cable from the Fiber ONT to the router or turn off the Internet from the router's management. But I'm guessing your router is for your wireless devices in the house too and you want those to access the Internet?

 

[waghela]

What is your end goal? To be able to disconnect that switch from the Internet and still access the NAS from different devices attached to the switch? If so you just need static IP addresses for each device.

My insecurity is due to the fact that the router belongs to the internet provider company and the fact that they can control it remotely. The provider can fully manage the router remotely and through it he can view the IP address of all equipment connected to it. I can only access the router myself through my client account credentials. But I can do it anywhere with internet, either through the browser or through the smartphone app. I can see all router activity and manage router configuration options.But the configuration options are very limited.

 

[waghela]

Alternatively you could disconnect the cable from the Fiber ONT to the router or turn off the Internet from the router's management. But I'm guessing your router is for your wireless devices in the house too and you want those to access the Internet?

I can't turn off the router because the router provides the wifi signal to the smartphone and tablet. It is also through it that the signal to the landline phone comes out. And the cable tv box is also get the signal from the router.

 

[Shmee]

It sounds like maybe your router is built in to the Fiber modem, and is included with the service. Would it be possible for you to buy a separate router that you could manage yourself, and just use the current device as the fiber modem?

 

[waghela]

It sounds like maybe your router is built in to the Fiber modem, and is included with the service. Would it be possible for you to buy a separate router that you could manage yourself, and just use the current device as the fiber modem?

That's right: the router is also a fiber modem. Doesn't connecting one more router still raise the problem of connecting two routers that conflict with each other?

I detected an option in the fiber modem router configuration: it is the "Bridge Mode in LAN 4 port (Enable/Disable)". Is it useful to connect another router?

 

[Shmee]

I am not entirely familiar with your modem/router, but with most of the modem/router combo devices, there should be an option to disable the built in router, and use your own. I suspect that is what you are finding in your options menu, though I am not certain.

If you want to do this, it is a viable option, some people like to use their own router for various reasons, such as better performance in general, better wifi, more security, or more control over settings and options. I would recommend you see if there is a manual for your device, that could help explain how to do this, or maybe contact your provider for help.

 

[iamgenius]

That's right: the router is also a fiber modem. Doesn't connecting one more router still raise the problem of connecting two routers that conflict with each other?

I detected an option in the fiber modem router configuration: it is the "Bridge Mode in LAN 4 port (Enable/Disable)". Is it useful to connect another router?

Yes, you can do this and use your own router. But as I know some ISP's make it so that it only works with their routers only so proceed with caution. Ask if somebody is already doing it in your area just to be sure. Where are you from?

Edit: Also if your PC and NAS don't need internet just link them using another switch and configure them with static IP addresses.

 

[waghela]

Portugal. Internert Provider is called NOS.

 

[Garion]

So many things here...

It is possible to leave the router provided by your ISP exactly as it is and put another router that you own and control in front of it - i.e. ISP Router -> Your router -> your switch. Your new router would need to have a new SSID for devices using Wifi and you would want to set all of your wireless devices to use it. This is exactly how I have my home network setup and it works great. (I chose to use a mesh wifi for my router since it gave better coverage, but it has the added bonus being totally managed by me). Some people might not like this kind of setup as it usually means two layers of protection (and multiple layers of NAT, if that means anything to you) but I've been doing it for 5 years with no issues.

For your NAS problem - I would bet that the answer from gowtham1 is right - You are possibly problems with DNS when the Internet is disconnected. DNS is the phone book of the Internet - It helps find an address from a name. It is possible that you access your NAS using a full DNS name ("mynas.something.com") instead of a short name ("mynas"). Try to just use the short name whenever you reference the NAS in your file system mounts and your browser when you are disconnected and see if it can still be found.

Another thing you can try to rule out a lower-level network problem is to use the "ping" command. To do this, open up a command prompt (in the Windows search type "cmd") and choose Command Prompt from the options displayed. From the prompt, enter "ping <mynas>" (or whatever you named it). It should show you some successful pings with replies. Some of the info that Ping returns is the IP address of the NAS (kind of like its telephone #). Now, disconnect your Internet and do the same thing. Pinging by name should, theoretically, still work. If it does not, try to do "ping <IP address you saw in the earlier ping" (i.e. "ping 192.168.86.70") and see if that works.

If you get a "Ping could not find host <nasname>", but the ping to the IP address works then you have a problem with DNS settings. If it doesn't work by IP address, then the "internet cable" you unplugged is also disconnecting your NAS, which would also explain things. You might have to do some wire tracking to make sure that both your NAS and your test computer are connected to the same switch.

Now that I think about it, there is one other possibility. Are you testing from a Wifi device or from a wired device? It is very possible that your ISP's router provides your home Wifi. When you disconnect the cable between the Wifi router and your home switch you are severing the connection that your Wifi-connected computers need to use to get to the NAS.

Think of it like this...

Your Wifi devices Your NAS
| |
v v
ISP Router (provides wifi) -> cable #1 -> your switch
^
|
PC's wired to switch


If you disconnect cable #1, you have severed the connection between the Wifi router (and the wifi devices) and your NAS via the switch. If you disconnect cable #1, PC's wired to the switch should still work (and should still be able to ping the NAS)

Good luck, hope this helps!

- G

 

[waghela]

Switch without internet: I can access the NAS by typing "isharing" in File Explorer; cannot be accessed through the browser.

Replacing the switch with a second router without internet can also be accessed by typing "isharing", not through the browser, but only through File Explorer.

By connecting the second router to the internet, I can access the NAS by typing "isharing" in both File Explorer and the browser.

However, here, you can no longer access it through the IP address "192.168.1.70". It must be using the IP address "192.168.2.4".

On the remote management page of the ISP router, after replacing the switch by the second router, the IP/MAC Addresses of all devices connected to the switch disappear: only the IP/MAC Address of the second router appears, while the IP/MAC Addresses of the other devices connected to the second router are hidden. Basically, that was the main goal I wanted to achieve: to prevent remote access to my equipment previously connected to the switch by the ISP. I believe that this way I will be more secure from the intrusion of my home network.



Ping command typing "ping <isharing> without internet gives the following message:

Ping statistics for “NAS MAC ADDRESS”:

Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),

Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:

Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 0ms, Average = 0ms



Ping command typing "ping <192.168.2.4> with internet and connection to the second router gives the following message:

Pinging 192.168.2.4 with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 192.168.2.4: bytes=32 time=9ms TTL=64

Reply from 192.168.2.4: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64

Reply from 192.168.2.4: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64

Reply from 192.168.2.4: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64



Regarding the way the entire network is connected to the equipment, they are all connected by RJ45 cable. No connection is made through the wi-fi.

 

[In2Photos]

Switch without internet: I can access the NAS by typing "isharing" in File Explorer; cannot be accessed through the browser.

Replacing the switch with a second router without internet can also be accessed by typing "isharing", not through the browser, but only through File Explorer.

By connecting the second router to the internet, I can access the NAS by typing "isharing" in both File Explorer and the browser.

However, here, you can no longer access it through the IP address "192.168.1.70". It must be using the IP address "192.168.2.4".

This is due to having DHCP turned on in the second router. Instead of the ISP router handing out IP addresses the second router is handing them out.

On the remote management page of the ISP router, after replacing the switch by the second router, the IP/MAC Addresses of all devices connected to the switch disappear: only the IP/MAC Address of the second router appears, while the IP/MAC Addresses of the other devices connected to the second router are hidden. Basically, that was the main goal I wanted to achieve: to prevent remote access to my equipment previously connected to the switch by the ISP. I believe that this way I will be more secure from the intrusion of my home network.

If this is what you are after then go ahead and use it this way. Keep in mind that any wireless devices you have connected to the ISP router likely won't be able to access the NAS or anything else connected to the second router. Alternatively, if the second router is also capable of wireless then this can handle all of your devices so everything is visible to you on the network.