Canadian Prof. Warns US Democracy Could Collapse by 2025

[fskimospy]

??? They have a 6-3 choke hold on the supreme court.

True, I was thinking not one of the three elected bodies. Regardless, the idea that Republicans control all the important parts of government is obviously, ludicrously false.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

i actually don't think trump is going to get the nomination in 2024 even if he does run. look at how irrelevant he is now - he endorsed vaccines and got boo'd. he's failed the purity test. I think DeSantis will take up the reigns but actually be competent where Trump wasn't, which is a much scarier thought. 2024 is going to be a real bellwether for the strength of durability of american democracy. we're hanging on by a thread as it stands...

DeathSantis doesn't have Trump's name recognition nor charisma, and he's nowhere near as good a conman as our Dear Leader. Trump has been a continual fuck-up in business who is only rich because daddy gave him a ton of money and then NBC rescued him 20 years ago, and yet he has for 40 years been the picture of success in America, the guy people think of when they think of rich person. Trump is really skilled in engineering the media coverage he wants.

 

[rommelrommel]

I think if this happens, Canada has an uphill battle defending against the same sickness spreading at home, due to the accessibility of American right wing media and the current outsized influence that our media wields in Canada.

While we have some fringe nuts, Canadians are actually becoming more centrist.

Democracy and Political Polarization in Canada and the U.S.

www.environicsinstitute.org

In politics and in tradition, Canada typically imitates the US, although much less dramatically. However these days the other has been true.
Newly released polling data exhibits that as People turn out to be ever-more polarized, Canadian attitudes are converging towards the centre.
A bit of excellent information in a yr that has had treasured little of it.
The Environics Institute for Survey Analysis (for Canada) and the Latin American Public Opinion Venture at Vanderbilt College (for the US) requested individuals in every nation a spread of questions on their political identification and belief in establishments. The outcomes had been in contrast with surveys performed in earlier years.
(The Canadian survey was performed on-line with a consultant pattern of two,201 grownup Canadians from July 2 to 7. The U.S. survey was performed on-line with a consultant pattern of 1,500 grownup People from July 19 to 25. There is no such thing as a equal to a margin of error for these on-line polls.)
The information revealed that, on a left-to-right scale of 1 to 10, a 3rd (32 per cent) of Canadians put themselves at 5, within the center, whereas solely a fifth (18 per cent) of People did likewise. Twelve per cent of People mentioned they had been as far to the left as you will get (at 1), whereas 17 per cent recognized on the far finish of proper (at 10). The Canadian equivalents had been 4 and 4.
Much more vital, , whereas the other has been occurring in the US. Between 2014 and this yr, the variety of CanCanadians have been gravitating away from extremes and towards the centre in current yearsadians figuring out as typically centrist (versus typically on the left or proper) elevated to 67 from 61 per cent.
In the US, in distinction, centrist help plummeted to 37 per cent this yr from 49 per cent in 2017, with a lot of the previously centrist help drifting to the left. That interval roughly corresponds with the presidency of Donald Trump.
“It’s affordable to imagine that there was a backlash in opposition to Trump in Canada,” says Andrew Parkin, government director of the Environics Institute. “Not solely did Canadians not go down that path, the entire expertise might need pushed us in the wrong way.”
Canadians constantly expressed larger ranges of contentment than People with their political system and its establishments. In addition they had larger belief within the equity of elections and had been extra prone to imagine that their rights had been being protected.
However not all of the indications are constructive. Pleasure in nation has been declining in Canada lately: 72 per cent of Canadians had “quite a bit” of satisfaction in 2010, versus 59 per cent in 2021. (The American equal had fallen to 57 per cent from 70 per cent.) The persevering with revelations of injustice towards Indigenous and racialized Canadians could have contributed to that decline.
It’s fascinating that, whereas there’s not an excessive amount of divergence between left, centre and proper in satisfaction in Canada in 2021, American conservatives are way more patriotic than liberals, with centrists splitting the distinction.
The excellent news, for this desk, is that 4 years of Donald Trump didn’t impress a nativist populist motion in Canada. If something, it drew many Canadians towards the centre in stout resistance of ideological extremism of any type.
Sure, there have been rambunctious demonstrations in opposition to Liberal Chief Justin Trudeau throughout the election marketing campaign. However the true message of that election was “the centre decides.” The Conservatives and Liberals, with platforms near the centre, every took a few third of the vote. The NDP, on the left, earned the help of fewer than one voter in 5, whereas the populist right-wing Folks’s Get together earned the help of just one voter in 20.
The decline of satisfaction in Canada reinforces the necessity to enhance the standard of life for Indigenous and racial minorities.
However we must also remind ourselves that, no matter our flaws, we’re a realistic, centrist individuals, a rustic with its head on its shoulders. It’s one thing to carry on to as we brace for the brand new yr.

 

[vi edit]

Authoritarian, nationalism and right wing extremism is pretty pervasive all over right now. France dodged a bullet but could have wound up with a female version of Trump. Poland, Hungary, ect are going backwards, fast. Australia and New Zealand have issues and are seeing far right protests (and mass shootings against Muslims in the case of NZ). There's not many countries you can point to on a map that aren't facing threats.

 

[gothuevos]

On the plus side...there's no way they could gas or imprison all of us. Think about all the essential jobs that would be unfilled. At least we'll have some "value" alive for our new overlords.

It's the little things.

 

[vi edit]

On the plus side...there's no way they could gas or imprison all of us. Think about all the essential jobs that would be unfilled. At least we'll have some "value" alive for our new overlords.

It's the little things.

I'm much more worried about Vanilla Isis/Y'all Queda.

 

[Greenman]

It's going to be interesting to come back and read this thread in ten years, I hope I remember (actually I hope I'm still alive).
On my list of current concerns, the US falling into fascism is right below the leaky gutter on my garage. It's been leaking for five years.
Might the US swing to the right for a few years? Sure, that could happen. Will jack booted white guys be kicking down doors and hauling undesirables to reeducation camps? I really doubt it.

I'll check back in 2032 and see how well our predictions went.

 

[vi edit]

It's going to be interesting to come back and read this thread in ten years, I hope I remember (actually I hope I'm still alive).
On my list of current concerns, the US falling into fascism is right below the leaky gutter on my garage. It's been leaking for five years.
Might the US swing to the right for a few years? Sure, that could happen. Will jack booted white guys be kicking down doors and hauling undesirables to reeducation camps? I really doubt it.

I'll check back in 2032 and see how well our predictions went.

Your complicity is noted.

 

[soundforbjt]

It's going to be interesting to come back and read this thread in ten years, I hope I remember (actually I hope I'm still alive).
On my list of current concerns, the US falling into fascism is right below the leaky gutter on my garage. It's been leaking for five years.
Might the US swing to the right for a few years? Sure, that could happen. Will jack booted white guys be kicking down doors and hauling undesirables to reeducation camps? I really doubt it.

I'll check back in 2032 and see how well our predictions went.

The answer to your second question will take more than a few years of one party rule for that to happen on a wide scale. Most of it will be done undercover of ‘legal means’ .

 

[dainthomas]

I'm much more worried about Vanilla Isis/Y'all Queda.

View attachment 55412

View attachment 55413

Pop pop means business when he breaks out the white New Balance.

 

[Greenman]

Your complicity is noted.

I've always had a very notable complicity. My second best feature!

 

[UNCjigga]

i actually don't think trump is going to get the nomination in 2024 even if he does run. look at how irrelevant he is now - he endorsed vaccines and got boo'd. he's failed the purity test. I think DeSantis will take up the reigns but actually be competent where Trump wasn't, which is a much scarier thought. 2024 is going to be a real bellwether for the strength of durability of american democracy. we're hanging on by a thread as it stands...

We keep assuming he'll take the traditional route to the Presidency when it's a path that's all but unavailable to him. There seems to be enough serious consideration of a GQP House electing Trump Speaker, and then it's just a matter of the MAGA paramilitaries getting rid of POTUS and VPOTUS.

Why do you think so many House candidates are getting/seeking His Orange Blessing?

 

[Amused]

Regulating it in the same way is impossible. Broadcast had large infrastructure requirements so there were few players and it was easily regulated. The internet can be accessed by anyone and information can be widely broadcast by anyone. How would you regulate...well...everyone in that way? Are you suggesting we try and emulate China?

The minute you make service providers liable for content, they will tightly regulate the content and self publishing on the web will die.

It will become the same as TV and radio.

All because ANY unregulated forum becomes filled with Nazis and trolls. And regulating it privately results in what's happening now.

Do I want this? No. Do I see any other way? Well, not yet.

 

[IronWing]

It's going to be interesting to come back and read this thread in ten years, I hope I remember (actually I hope I'm still alive).
On my list of current concerns, the US falling into fascism is right below the leaky gutter on my garage. It's been leaking for five years.
Might the US swing to the right for a few years? Sure, that could happen. Will jack booted white guys be kicking down doors and hauling undesirables to reeducation camps? I really doubt it.

I'll check back in 2032 and see how well our predictions went.

At its most liberal, the US is very right wing. The Republicans aren’t going to turn fascist, they are fascist and have been for decades. As for kicking down doors and hauling people off, conservatives have been also doing that for decades. They like to pretend that it’s about drugs. Of course, as a know nothing, you’ll pretend to know nothing about it. The bottom line is that you don’t really give a fuck about America or even your own future.

 

[fskimospy]

It's going to be interesting to come back and read this thread in ten years, I hope I remember (actually I hope I'm still alive).
On my list of current concerns, the US falling into fascism is right below the leaky gutter on my garage. It's been leaking for five years.
Might the US swing to the right for a few years? Sure, that could happen. Will jack booted white guys be kicking down doors and hauling undesirables to reeducation camps? I really doubt it.

I'll check back in 2032 and see how well our predictions went.

You just saw the most recent Republican make a serious attempt to end democracy in the United States and now his party is purging anyone who disputes his narrative.

You might want to take a step back and consider what the implications of that are.

 

[cytg111]

It's going to be interesting to come back and read this thread in ten years, I hope I remember (actually I hope I'm still alive).
On my list of current concerns, the US falling into fascism is right below the leaky gutter on my garage. It's been leaking for five years.
Might the US swing to the right for a few years? Sure, that could happen. Will jack booted white guys be kicking down doors and hauling undesirables to reeducation camps? I really doubt it.

I'll check back in 2032 and see how well our predictions went.

How close was the shaman from being cut in half? Pretty close it seems

 

[gothuevos]

How close was the shaman from being cut in half? Pretty close it seems

Now imagine the next GOP President using these same forces on the next BLM protest...

 

[manly]

DeathSantis doesn't have Trump's name recognition nor charisma, and he's nowhere near as good a conman as our Dear Leader. Trump has been a continual fuck-up in business who is only rich because daddy gave him a ton of money and then NBC rescued him 20 years ago, and yet he has for 40 years been the picture of success in America, the guy people think of when they think of rich person. Trump is really skilled in engineering the media coverage he wants.

The notion that DeathSantis will successfully primary DJT is laughable.

 

[gothuevos]

It's going to be interesting to come back and read this thread in ten years, I hope I remember (actually I hope I'm still alive).
On my list of current concerns, the US falling into fascism is right below the leaky gutter on my garage. It's been leaking for five years.
Might the US swing to the right for a few years? Sure, that could happen. Will jack booted white guys be kicking down doors and hauling undesirables to reeducation camps? I really doubt it.

I'll check back in 2032 and see how well our predictions went.

Of course you don't care - sounds like you're old and probably not the target demographic that would be vulnerable. And to be honest, I don't even blame you. Because that's exactly what most people's attitudes will be like, "doesn't affecte or my kids? Oh well."

These two articles describe exactly what will happen to us in the next decade. Basically imagine Hungary, but on steroids. One author summed it up best - life will be mostly normal, even boring. Unless you're LGBTQ, immigrant, or non-Christian.

You thought being denied a cake was bad? Wait until it's legal to deny you health insurance because you're not the preferred religion. All legal and under the guise of religious freedom.

How does this end?

Where the crisis in American democracy might be headed.

www.vox.com

Sleepwalking Toward a Post Democracy America - Dame Magazine

There has been a dawning realization among some of the center-left that the GOP fully intends to end democracy in the U.S. and assume permanent control of the government. Even neoconservatives like Robert Kagan have come to this same conclusion. The GOP is telegraphing their punches clearly...

www.damemagazine.com

 

[Greenman]

Of course you don't care - sounds like you're old and probably not the target demographic that would be vulnerable. And to be honest, I don't even blame you. Because that's exactly what most people's attitudes will be like, "doesn't affecte or my kids? Oh well."

These two articles describe exactly what will happen to us in the next decade. Basically imagine Hungary, but on steroids. One author summed it up best - life will be mostly normal, even boring. Unless you're LGBTQ, immigrant, or non-Christian.

You thought being denied a cake was bad? Wait until it's legal to deny you health insurance because you're not the preferred religion. All legal and under the guise of religious freedom.

How does this end?

Where the crisis in American democracy might be headed.

www.vox.com

Sleepwalking Toward a Post Democracy America - Dame Magazine

There has been a dawning realization among some of the center-left that the GOP fully intends to end democracy in the U.S. and assume permanent control of the government. Even neoconservatives like Robert Kagan have come to this same conclusion. The GOP is telegraphing their punches clearly...

www.damemagazine.com

Those were both interesting opinion pieces, but they are opinions. Opinions that I don't agree with.
You believe that's "exactly" what will happen, I don't.

 

[fskimospy]

Of course you don't care - sounds like you're old and probably not the target demographic that would be vulnerable. And to be honest, I don't even blame you. Because that's exactly what most people's attitudes will be like, "doesn't affecte or my kids? Oh well."

These two articles describe exactly what will happen to us in the next decade. Basically imagine Hungary, but on steroids. One author summed it up best - life will be mostly normal, even boring. Unless you're LGBTQ, immigrant, or non-Christian.

You thought being denied a cake was bad? Wait until it's legal to deny you health insurance because you're not the preferred religion. All legal and under the guise of religious freedom.

How does this end?

Where the crisis in American democracy might be headed.

www.vox.com

Sleepwalking Toward a Post Democracy America - Dame Magazine

There has been a dawning realization among some of the center-left that the GOP fully intends to end democracy in the U.S. and assume permanent control of the government. Even neoconservatives like Robert Kagan have come to this same conclusion. The GOP is telegraphing their punches clearly...

www.damemagazine.com

This is something that goes under-appreciated when people talk about the end of democracy or whatever. It’s often not some big event with tanks in the streets, it’s some boring legalism.

Like with Trump in this case their goal was to create enough delay and confusion not to award Trump the most electoral votes but to throw the election to the House, which would install Trump over the will of the voters. Thankfully we don’t know for sure but I strongly suspect this would be treated as a #bothsides situation where it was a political argument between the parties and not a coup, while of course it would be a coup.

In that case I suspect Greenman would say ‘look, there were legitimate arguments of fraud and this is exactly why the constitution has the provision for the house to decide. The system works.’, not realizing that the republic just fell.

 

[gothuevos]

This is something that goes under-appreciated when people talk about the end of democracy or whatever. It’s often not some big event with tanks in the streets, it’s some boring legalism.

Like with Trump in this case their goal was to create enough delay and confusion not to award Trump the most electoral votes but to throw the election to the House, which would install Trump over the will of the voters. Thankfully we don’t know for sure but I strongly suspect this would be treated as a #bothsides situation where it was a political argument between the parties and not a coup, while of course it would be a coup.

In that case I suspect Greenman would say ‘look, there were legitimate arguments of fraud and this is exactly why the constitution has the provision for the house to decide. The system works.’, not realizing that the republic just fell.

Or he'd just say you deserved it.

 

[gothuevos]

Another preview of things to come from the "free state of Florida"

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1478398719284465666

 

[MrSquished]

This is something that goes under-appreciated when people talk about the end of democracy or whatever. It’s often not some big event with tanks in the streets, it’s some boring legalism.

Like with Trump in this case their goal was to create enough delay and confusion not to award Trump the most electoral votes but to throw the election to the House, which would install Trump over the will of the voters. Thankfully we don’t know for sure but I strongly suspect this would be treated as a #bothsides situation where it was a political argument between the parties and not a coup, while of course it would be a coup.

In that case I suspect Greenman would say ‘look, there were legitimate arguments of fraud and this is exactly why the constitution has the provision for the house to decide. The system works.’, not realizing that the republic just fell.

Yes, fascism doesn't mean jack booted thugs rounding up people on day 1. At first life would go on as normal, but it would not be a democracy anymore. @Greenman had clearly shown he would not care, because obviously his party would be in power then.

Rights would start to be eroded as time passed though. It would especially get worse faster for minority groups, gays, and non Christian denominations. But eventually the freedom to criticize the right wing government would start to be punished. America would become an oligarchy at some point down the road.

Magats would be content with that. They are all pretty terrible people.