Canada pushes on with Kyoto
- Thread starter Stunt
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- Jul 17, 2002
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Interesting indepth analysis of the Kyoto Protocol
Last time we talked about it, a bunch of people with misperceptions jumped in with false statements. Read this site before spouting off a bunch of crap you know nothing about. I'm still undecided on the protocol, I do however like the byproducts of being more energy conscious, less polluting and exploring alternate energy. Maybe it will take something like this to convert people, even though it has its flaws, it's no different than other legislation.
Last time we talked about it, a bunch of people with misperceptions jumped in with false statements. Read this site before spouting off a bunch of crap you know nothing about. I'm still undecided on the protocol, I do however like the byproducts of being more energy conscious, less polluting and exploring alternate energy. Maybe it will take something like this to convert people, even though it has its flaws, it's no different than other legislation.
Whoozyerdaddy
Lifer
- Jun 27, 2005
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Funny how the most obvious answers are always opposed by the radical environmental crowd. Can't dam the rivers because of the fish. No nuke power because of waste disposal. No wind farms because they kill the birds. Recently they attacked hydrogen power. They are even now saying that cleaner air is causing warming.
So it shouldn't be any wonder that some people (including our own senate 98-0) think Kyoto is a joke.
So it shouldn't be any wonder that some people (including our own senate 98-0) think Kyoto is a joke.
- Jul 17, 2002
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Your claims are almost rediculous.
I don't any substantial groups attacking hydrogen cells, wind farms, or anything of the sort. I do however understand the trade-offs of different energy sources and they must be considered.
Your link shows the "costs" of kyoto for the world, care to tell me what they are "wasting" this money on?
Yes there environmental groups against wind power, just do a search for windpower and birds. Bush got slammed fudning hydrogen power development because it was impractical or whatever.
- Jul 17, 2002
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The fight against wind is not a substantial issue, most environmentalists long for this technology. These "evironmental groups" have no clue and shouldn't be listened to
Hydrogen is impractical without nuclear or something to power the electrolysis, that wouldn't be exclusively the enviro-nuts as Whoozyerdaddy would like us to think.
Just because we are fiscally conservative, doesn't mean we are against good environmental practices and shoot down every step in that direction.
Whoozyerdaddy
Lifer
- Jun 27, 2005
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I'm not shooting them down. I'm all for them. I'm just saying...
Check this out while we're on the subject. It's an interesting take on the information available on global warming as a whole. Don't roll your eyes too much when you mouse over the link. He makes a good point. It's another reason why I look at the whole global warming debate as more of a political issue than a scientific one.
This graph (granted it doesn't cover a huge time span) kind of sums up CO2 emissions vs temp increases for the last quarter century or so. The first spike is the eruption of El Chicoon, the second spike is Pinatubo and the third spike is big El Nino we had. The red line is our CO2 emissions over that time span.
Check this out while we're on the subject. It's an interesting take on the information available on global warming as a whole. Don't roll your eyes too much when you mouse over the link. He makes a good point. It's another reason why I look at the whole global warming debate as more of a political issue than a scientific one.
This graph (granted it doesn't cover a huge time span) kind of sums up CO2 emissions vs temp increases for the last quarter century or so. The first spike is the eruption of El Chicoon, the second spike is Pinatubo and the third spike is big El Nino we had. The red line is our CO2 emissions over that time span.
Lets do it like this:
Today we have 370ppm Co2 in the atmosphere. More than has ever been recorded in the last 2 million years. This is because of man.
Earlier it was the earth that controlled Co2 emissions. And emmisions followed the average temperature. The average temperature was dictated by the sun and the earth, and how the earth was according to the sun in astronomical terms. Scientists have realised why we had ice ages, and that was the reason.
Today the amount of Co2 in our atmosphere is stopping some heatwaves from leaving. That is why it is worrying.
Take two empty glasses, put them top down, and fill one of them with some Co2. Now place a lamp near, so it will shine directly on them. After, say, 30 minutes, check the temperature, and the Co2 filled will be higher. That was a test i did in ninth grade
Whether that's what's happening to our earth, i don't know. But something like it is. The levels of Co2 has reached an alltime high, since the creation of earth.
Today we have 370ppm Co2 in the atmosphere. More than has ever been recorded in the last 2 million years. This is because of man.
Earlier it was the earth that controlled Co2 emissions. And emmisions followed the average temperature. The average temperature was dictated by the sun and the earth, and how the earth was according to the sun in astronomical terms. Scientists have realised why we had ice ages, and that was the reason.
Today the amount of Co2 in our atmosphere is stopping some heatwaves from leaving. That is why it is worrying.
Take two empty glasses, put them top down, and fill one of them with some Co2. Now place a lamp near, so it will shine directly on them. After, say, 30 minutes, check the temperature, and the Co2 filled will be higher. That was a test i did in ninth grade
Whether that's what's happening to our earth, i don't know. But something like it is. The levels of Co2 has reached an alltime high, since the creation of earth.
Originally posted by: Forsythe
Lets do it like this:
Today we have 370ppm Co2 in the atmosphere. More than has ever been recorded in the last 2 million years. This is because of man.
Earlier it was the earth that controlled Co2 emissions. And emmisions followed the average temperature. The average temperature was dictated by the sun and the earth, and how the earth was according to the sun in astronomical terms. Scientists have realised why we had ice ages, and that was the reason.
Today the amount of Co2 in our atmosphere is stopping some heatwaves from leaving. That is why it is worrying.
Take two empty glasses, put them top down, and fill one of them with some Co2. Now place a lamp near, so it will shine directly on them. After, say, 30 minutes, check the temperature, and the Co2 filled will be higher. That was a test i did in ninth grade
Whether that's what's happening to our earth, i don't know. But something like it is. The levels of Co2 has reached an alltime high, since the creation of earth.
I'm pretty sure they had CO2 recording equipment in 1,998,000 BC.. So I take what you say at face value.. there is no doubt man has caused this, after all, you said we have, and thats good enough for me.. and with 2 million years of data from CO2 monitoring equipment, who can argue?
Kerouactivist
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- Jul 12, 2001
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sandorski
No Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
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Originally posted by: Crimson
Originally posted by: Forsythe
Lets do it like this:
Today we have 370ppm Co2 in the atmosphere. More than has ever been recorded in the last 2 million years. This is because of man.
Earlier it was the earth that controlled Co2 emissions. And emmisions followed the average temperature. The average temperature was dictated by the sun and the earth, and how the earth was according to the sun in astronomical terms. Scientists have realised why we had ice ages, and that was the reason.
Today the amount of Co2 in our atmosphere is stopping some heatwaves from leaving. That is why it is worrying.
Take two empty glasses, put them top down, and fill one of them with some Co2. Now place a lamp near, so it will shine directly on them. After, say, 30 minutes, check the temperature, and the Co2 filled will be higher. That was a test i did in ninth grade
Whether that's what's happening to our earth, i don't know. But something like it is. The levels of Co2 has reached an alltime high, since the creation of earth.
I'm pretty sure they had CO2 recording equipment in 1,998,000 BC.. So I take what you say at face value.. there is no doubt man has caused this, after all, you said we have, and thats good enough for me.. and with 2 million years of data from CO2 monitoring equipment, who can argue?
That about sums up the whole Anti-Kyoto/Global Climate Change arguement right there. Obfuscation, complete dismissal of any scientific data. Kid yourself not, the Bush Admin and the Oil companies know that it's for real, they just won't admit it publicly, at least in the US.
Scientific data? Where? There is "Scientific Data" that shows nothing at all is happening out of the ordinary, some that shows that cleaner air is causing the issue, and some that shows that if all emissions from the United States was at zero, that the emissions from China in ten years alone alone would be enough to start the next Ice-Age.
This treaty must address all or none if trade is to be fair. It's like a free trade agreement. You can either apply it to all in a region, or none. Selective appplication only serves certain nations. In this case selective application only hurts the signatory states. reduced pollution is always a good thing. It CAN be done without crippling the economy. As far as I can see, there are no countries capable of compliance with the treaty at this juncture anyways so it IS a token gesture at best.
This treaty must address all or none if trade is to be fair. It's like a free trade agreement. You can either apply it to all in a region, or none. Selective appplication only serves certain nations. In this case selective application only hurts the signatory states. reduced pollution is always a good thing. It CAN be done without crippling the economy. As far as I can see, there are no countries capable of compliance with the treaty at this juncture anyways so it IS a token gesture at best.
Originally posted by: Crimson
Originally posted by: Forsythe
Lets do it like this:
Today we have 370ppm Co2 in the atmosphere. More than has ever been recorded in the last 2 million years. This is because of man.
Earlier it was the earth that controlled Co2 emissions. And emmisions followed the average temperature. The average temperature was dictated by the sun and the earth, and how the earth was according to the sun in astronomical terms. Scientists have realised why we had ice ages, and that was the reason.
Today the amount of Co2 in our atmosphere is stopping some heatwaves from leaving. That is why it is worrying.
Take two empty glasses, put them top down, and fill one of them with some Co2. Now place a lamp near, so it will shine directly on them. After, say, 30 minutes, check the temperature, and the Co2 filled will be higher. That was a test i did in ninth grade
Whether that's what's happening to our earth, i don't know. But something like it is. The levels of Co2 has reached an alltime high, since the creation of earth.
I'm pretty sure they had CO2 recording equipment in 1,998,000 BC.. So I take what you say at face value.. there is no doubt man has caused this, after all, you said we have, and thats good enough for me.. and with 2 million years of data from CO2 monitoring equipment, who can argue?
Moron.
The 2 millon years of Co2 data was acquired on antarctica which has a massive layer of ice recording it all. Greenland has records for the last 400k years, but since it snows much more on greenland, they're much more accurate, and you can read even single years sometimes.
And it's funny that Co2 increased just as humans started spewing out greenhouse gasses, Co2 most noticeably.
What are those scientific reports you are talking about Maluckey?
There are numerous threads on these subjects on this very forum.....I found links too numerous to begin posting.
I'm lazy
But this says nothing about global warming being phony, or even sheds doubt about it. It just says that particles might delay the heating, and therefore it might not hit a 10 fahrenheit increase in 2100, but it might be on the low end.
But this says nothing about global warming being phony, or even sheds doubt about it. It just says that particles might delay the heating, and therefore it might not hit a 10 fahrenheit increase in 2100, but it might be on the low end.
Good for Canada. :beer:
I'm sure they see their beautiful natural resources being destroyed by global warming and they aren't too happy about it.
There is no reason other than greed for factory output to not have every output scrubbed.
We all deserve a for allowing it to not only happen but continue to get worse especially the once smart U.S. which is now just as dumb as China for the sake of the almighty dollar.
for the planet
I'm sure they see their beautiful natural resources being destroyed by global warming and they aren't too happy about it.
There is no reason other than greed for factory output to not have every output scrubbed.
We all deserve a
for allowing it to not only happen but continue to get worse especially the once smart U.S. which is now just as dumb as China for the sake of the almighty dollar.
Another link, more critical
This article is harsh concerning Kyoto. I'm not all in agreement, but it's fairly well written and researched.
More info
This article is harsh concerning Kyoto. I'm not all in agreement, but it's fairly well written and researched.
More info
Whoozyerdaddy
Lifer
- Jun 27, 2005
- 19,216
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