Canada Premier comes to America for heart surgery

[werepossum]

I just noticed this on Drudge. Danny Williams, Canada's premier for Newfoundland and Labrador, recently made an announced trip to Miami's Mount Sinai Medical Center. His purpose, oddly enough, was not to help them improve their system of medicine to Canadian standards. Instead he came to seek heart surgery. Seems the Canadian system offers a much cruder surgery requiring breaking some bones - not to mention a long queue.

Mr. Williams remains a staunch advocate of the Canadian system of socialized medicine and indicated his willingness to file for any and all refunds (from the CHS) to which he might be entitled. Sounds like a real sweetheart.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5h0QC7bditrEb3wYz_6_b-gsGGDxA

 

[highland145]

If I remember right, he's rich as hell. So might as well get the best.

 

[heyheybooboo]

As long as he doesn't get what is left of Cheney's heart, Newfoundland and Labrador will be okay ...





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[highland145]

As long as he doesn't get what is left of Cheney's heart, Newfoundland and Labrador will be okay ...
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Like him or not, he has a pair of brass ones. Wonder if they can transplant those?

 

[Genx87]

I always laugh when these leaders from countries with socialized medicine get on planes leaving their systems behind in order to have their procedure performed in the worlds worst medical system

 

[Jaskalas]

I always laugh when these leaders from countries with socialized medicine get on planes leaving their systems behind in order to have their procedure performed in the worlds worst medical system

Their system is better, until they have to use it.

 

[Sinsear]

I always laugh when these leaders from countries with socialized medicine get on planes leaving their systems behind in order to have their procedure performed in the worlds worst medical system

It's amazing isn't it?

 

[soundforbjt]

Our system is great... if you CAN AFFORD IT, that is, and your insurance doesn't screw you...

 

[Jaskalas]

Our system is great... if you CAN AFFORD IT, that is, and your insurance doesn't screw you...

Maybe our government should then look to reduce the cost instead of creating an expensive monopoly out of it. Oh, but then they wouldn't control your health and body.

 

[Rainsford]

I always laugh when these leaders from countries with socialized medicine get on planes leaving their systems behind in order to have their procedure performed in the worlds worst medical system

I don't know, I'm amused more by your type of reaction than anything else. Attention is always drawn to these sorts of cases, as if to offer anecdotal proof of the superiority of the American medical system.

Except these cases always deal with people rich enough to fly to another country to have a medical procedure performed, often paying for it out of their own pockets...an ability not shared by the vast majority of the people in most countries, including this one. Is your argument that our system should focus on providing services to the incredibly wealthy?

In fact this is exactly the problem advocates of universal health care are seeking to address. Nobody besides UHC opponents putting words into the supporters' mouths argue that American doctors and hospitals are terrible, or that health care for those that can get it isn't extremely good. The real issue is the quality of health care for those who CAN'T get it, which is a lot of people, and the care they CAN get is pretty bad.

So repeatedly pointing out how rich people from other countries can get excellent care in the US is really making UHC supporters' point for them.

 

[highland145]

I don't know, I'm amused more by your type of reaction than anything else. Attention is always drawn to these sorts of cases, as if to offer anecdotal proof of the superiority of the American medical system.

Except these cases always deal with people rich enough to fly to another country to have a medical procedure performed, often paying for it out of their own pockets...an ability not shared by the vast majority of the people in most countries, including this one. Is your argument that our system should focus on providing services to the incredibly wealthy?

In fact this is exactly the problem advocates of universal health care are seeking to address. Nobody besides UHC opponents putting words into the supporters' mouths argue that American doctors and hospitals are terrible, or that health care for those that can get it isn't extremely good. The real issue is the quality of health care for those who CAN'T get it, which is a lot of people, and the care they CAN get is pretty bad.

So repeatedly pointing out how rich people from other countries can get excellent care in the US is really making UHC supporters' point for them.

I would think it points out that their UHC sucks which is why they go somewhere else. And because they have the $$ to do so.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Do foreigners like this pay out of pocket, do the hospitals cut them deals, or do they have health insurance?

 

[Rainsford]

Maybe our government should then look to reduce the cost instead of creating an expensive monopoly out of it. Oh, but then they wouldn't control your health and body.

You know, as many times as I've heard this brought up as an alternative to UHC, I don't think I've ever heard suggestions as to how exactly this would work. Health care is prohibitively expensive for most people without insurance, and for a lot of people, GETTING insurance is extremely difficult and/or expensive. Making health care cheaper isn't going to work unless you make it MUCH, MUCH cheaper, which seems difficult...especially since HOW we'll make it cheaper is usually left unstated.

Of course UHC isn't what you say it is anyways. No monopoly, no "control" beyond what your current HMO already has, etc.

 

[Rainsford]

I would think it points out that their UHC sucks which is why they go somewhere else. And because they have the $$ to do so.

No, it means their country doesn't provide the best possible care to someone who can pay for any quality of care they like. This is not an indictment of their health care system, since what kind of silly system caters to the top few percent of the population?

 

[jackschmittusa]

People often go to other countries when they think they can get the best medical treatment, not just to the U.S.. All they need to do is think that the best doctor, procedure, or technique is available there. Many Americans have traveled abroad for medical care and will continue to do so.

 

[soundforbjt]

Maybe our government should then look to reduce the cost instead of creating an expensive monopoly out of it. Oh, but then they wouldn't control your health and body.

Maybe if all these fine upstanding insurance cos. didn't raise their rates anymore than the rate of inflation & worried about customers as much as shareholders, we'd be ok.

 

[Jaskalas]

Of course UHC isn't what you say it is anyways. No monopoly, no "control" beyond what your current HMO already has, etc.

Even if it's nothing more than the government replacing the HMO, that's a horribly bad thing to have happen. The watchdog who protects you from HMOs now becomes that HMO. The guard dog becomes a wolf to protect the chickens from wolves.

I don't think I've ever heard suggestions as to how exactly this would work.

There are two roles in this. Producer, and consumer. The product needs to be cheaper. You can achieve this by having the government form a Healthcare Foundation that covers many costs for the various healthcare providers. Costs that would otherwise get passed onto the consumer.

This way the government is facilitating cheaper healthcare without creating a monopoly on either the provider or consumer side of the equation.

Most importantly, government isn't in control of people's lives. It has not become their HMO.

 

[highland145]

No, it means their country doesn't provide the best possible care to someone who can pay for any quality of care they like. This is not an indictment of their health care system, since what kind of silly system caters to the top few percent of the population?

So their care is middle of the road and that's where we want to go with UHC?

FYI: I have paid my own premiums for years and they are high. And at times it is a struggle. I do have sympathy for those that cant but I think tort reform and cross state insurance sales would be a good start to reform.

 

[her209]

I would think it points out that their UHC sucks which is why they go somewhere else. And because they have the $$ to do so.

Where do the people who live in the US and don't have the $$ go?

 

[highland145]

Making health care cheaper isn't going to work unless you make it MUCH, MUCH cheaper, which seems difficult...especially since HOW we'll make it cheaper is usually left unstated.

Obama said $2500 less per family. But that was on the campaign trail.

A friends daughter is at MUSC and they are telling her $350K her first year out. WTF. Who the heck is worth that? I think some cutting could be done there.

 

[jpeyton]

That's neato.

I'd rather get socialized heart surgery in Canada than pay up the ass for it in America.

 

[Rainsford]

Even if it's nothing more than the government replacing the HMO, that's a horribly bad thing to have happen. The watchdog who protects you from HMOs now becomes that HMO. The guard dog becomes a wolf to protect the chickens from wolves.

There are two roles in this. Producer, and consumer. The product needs to be cheaper. You can achieve this by having the government form a Healthcare Foundation that covers many costs for the various healthcare providers. Costs that would otherwise get passed onto the consumer.

This way the government is facilitating cheaper healthcare without creating a monopoly on either the provider or consumer side of the equation.

Most importantly, government isn't in control of people's lives. It has not become their HMO.

I don't think the government should ever replace HMOs for people who can afford health insurance...

As for the cost covering idea, I'm a big fan of government simply FUNDING health care, rather than providing it. No government hospitals, no government HMOs, etc. Make it work like school vouchers, only in this case the capacity exists in the form of existing health care and the money provided would be sufficient to help everyone purchase at least basic health care coverage from their choice of insurance companies. No messy overhead, none of the "control" you're so worried about, just the government cutting everyone a check.

 

[werepossum]

Obama said $2500 less per family. But that was on the campaign trail.

A friends daughter is at MUSC and they are telling her $350K her first year out. WTF. Who the heck is worth that? I think some cutting could be done there.

Considering from where he pulled that number, I don't think I'll touch it. LOL

 

[Rainsford]

So their care is middle of the road and that's where we want to go with UHC?

FYI: I have paid my own premiums for years and they are high. And at times it is a struggle. I do have sympathy for those that cant but I think tort reform and cross state insurance sales would be a good start to reform.

Those ideas would make very little difference, and in the case of tort reform would arguably make health care worse for us all.

"Middle of the road care" is NOT what we want. The point is that judging a system by the top 1% is probably worse. There is absolutely NO reason I've heard that we can't be a world class country in terms of health care for the people who can pay any price while also not telling the folks who can't pay at all that they're just shit out of luck.

 

[highland145]

Where do the people who live in the US and don't have the $$ go?

What happen a lot is the E.R. where you have to be treated. Read somewhere that 1 of 3 don't pay so that is why the payers bill is so high. Looks like we have UHC already in a backwards fashion. I never said the financial part of our medical system was O.K. It is definitely f**ed up. Reform needs to be done. I think most would agree. But no one trusts back door deals and cut outs.