Canada lags behind U.S. in curbing toxic emissions, says NAFTA report

[burnedout]

OTTAWA (CP) - Canadian industrial plants released 2.7 million kilograms of chemicals linked to cancer, birth defects and other reproductive harm in 2001, says a new report by the NAFTA environmental agency.

The annual Taking Stock report, drawn from submissions by more than 20,000 polluters in the United States and Canada, shows that Canada is lagging the United States in curbing toxic pollution. Although total North American emissions declined by 18 per cent from 1998 to 2001, Canadian emissions rose three per cent.

As in previous years, Ontario was the third-biggest polluting jurisdiction on the continent after North Carolina and Ohio, says the report by the Commission for Environmental Co-operation.

The electricity sector was the biggest source of toxic pollution in North America, mainly from the use of coal at generating plants. The sector accounted for 45 per cent of total emissions, including 43,384 kg of mercury, which can affect fetal and childhood development.

Canada's poorer record in curbing toxics is probably due to the lack of federal air-quality legislation, William Kennedy, executive director of the commission, said in an interview.

The U.S. Clean Air Act sets binding regulations for air polluters, but Ottawa depends mainly on voluntary and negotiated agreements.

Link

 

[Edge3D]

But I thought that video I watched had AMERICA getting slammed by that coastal tidal wave across NYC and destroying us for being sooo bad to the environment!!!

So what your saying is, that even a modern nation like CANADA is less environmentally friendly than the USA! *GASP*

What about all the 3rd world and developing nations that still use tons of coal and dump crap everywhere.. what about them? Are we hurting the environment more than them? What about the Soviet Union, they were socialist.. they MUST have been cleaner and better than the USA.. WE are the evil ones.. at least thats what the mainstream media told me.

We are such horrible people.. what we need to do is live simply so that others can simply exist.
:laugh:

YEAH, RIGHT!

 

[Stunt]

Both countries are horrible at implementing pollution control. It is my understanding that the Clean Air Act is voluntary as well and has been described as a free ticket for energy producers to pollute.
North America is seriously lagging behind europe as they has not only complied with kyoto, they have exceeded it.
Canada has plans to implement (pending our election, our conservative party does not support implementation) but wants to modify the agreemetn to take into account our forested aras as 'oxygen producers'
The US dropped it for the clean air act...not even close to kyoto's plans.

To say that Canadians are worse than americans, it is like comparing the worst of the worst.
Hopefully we can develop technologies to limit the brutal pollution pumped out of coal and oil power plants (majority of pollution is generated by these)

 

[Painman]

I thought economic conservatives were against excessive regulations on industry. I mean, after all, isn't our EPA one of those "big gov't" factors that makes American industry uncompetitive, and Canadian industry as an outsourcing alternative better for the bottom line? Or is it the acid rain falling on western NY state bringing the "not in my backyard" factor to bear?

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Painman
I thought economic conservatives were against excessive regulations on industry. I mean, after all, isn't our EPA one of those "big gov't" factors that makes American industry uncompetitive, and Canadian industry as an outsourcing alternative better for the bottom line? Or is it the acid rain falling on western NY state bringing the "not in my backyard" factor to bear?

The key word is excessive.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Stunt
North America is seriously lagging behind europe as they has not only complied with kyoto, they have exceeded it.

Do you have any links to that? I remember reading a while ago on another forum that most of the EU countries aren't even on track to meet those expectations.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Stunt
North America is seriously lagging behind europe as they has not only complied with kyoto, they have exceeded it.

Do you have any links to that? I remember reading a while ago on another forum that most of the EU countries aren't even on track to meet those expectations.

I think more accuratly no EU country has come close to meeting kyoto standards.

 

[Painman]

Maybe the picture isn't as simplistic as the report makes it appear. Canada's industrial base may be growing while ours is shrinking. A comparison of PPM (parts per million) coming out of Canadian smokestacks vs. American ones might be more meaningful than this overview of total emissions. Just for sh!ts and giggles, maybe we can also look at PPM of toxic materials coming out of Chinese smokestacks to see who is the dirtiest of the dirty.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Painman
Maybe the picture isn't as simplistic as the report makes it appear. Canada's industrial base may be growing while ours is shrinking. A comparison of PPM (parts per million) coming out of Canadian smokestacks vs. American ones might be more meaningful than this overview of total emissions. Just for sh!ts and giggles, maybe we can also look at PPM of toxic materials coming out of Chinese smokestacks to see who is the dirtiest of the dirty.

Contrary to what many think, our industrial base is not shrinking.

China has a very nice brown cloud...they could use some more environmental regulations...

 

[maddogchen]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Painman
Maybe the picture isn't as simplistic as the report makes it appear. Canada's industrial base may be growing while ours is shrinking. A comparison of PPM (parts per million) coming out of Canadian smokestacks vs. American ones might be more meaningful than this overview of total emissions. Just for sh!ts and giggles, maybe we can also look at PPM of toxic materials coming out of Chinese smokestacks to see who is the dirtiest of the dirty.

Contrary to what many think, our industrial base is not shrinking.

China has a very nice brown cloud...they could use some more environmental regulations...

OMG China has way too much pollution. I thought LA was bad but when I went to Beijing I was choking in all that bad pollution. I've been in China 4 weeks now and I didn't see the sun till I went to the beach. At first I thought it was only big cities like Beijing, but even in the little cities where my company is, its still smoggy. I got like 15 smokestacks near where I work just pumping black stuff into the sky. Can't see the mountains around here half the time. Fishermen fishing out of polluted rivers. Little children taking dumps on the street. Damn think I've shortened my life by a few years here.

 

[Painman]

Originally posted by: maddogchen

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Painman
Maybe the picture isn't as simplistic as the report makes it appear. Canada's industrial base may be growing while ours is shrinking. A comparison of PPM (parts per million) coming out of Canadian smokestacks vs. American ones might be more meaningful than this overview of total emissions. Just for sh!ts and giggles, maybe we can also look at PPM of toxic materials coming out of Chinese smokestacks to see who is the dirtiest of the dirty.

Contrary to what many think, our industrial base is not shrinking.

China has a very nice brown cloud...they could use some more environmental regulations...

OMG China has way too much pollution. I thought LA was bad but when I went to Beijing I was choking in all that bad pollution. I've been in China 4 weeks now and I didn't see the sun till I went to the beach. At first I thought it was only big cities like Beijing, but even in the little cities where my company is, its still smoggy. I got like 15 smokestacks near where I work just pumping black stuff into the sky. Can't see the mountains around here half the time. Fishermen fishing out of polluted rivers. Little children taking dumps on the street. Damn think I've shortened my life by a few years here.

Hopefully the capitalization of China will empower the people instead of the Politburo and enviromental concerns will have to be addressed. But, that will only drive up the price of Chinese goods much the same as what we see in America. Where will the hundreds of millions of Chinese consumers buy their goods when their own become expensive? Sound like any current scenarios?

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Stunt
North America is seriously lagging behind europe as they has not only complied with kyoto, they have exceeded it.

Do you have any links to that? I remember reading a while ago on another forum that most of the EU countries aren't even on track to meet those expectations.

I think more accuratly no EU country has come close to meeting kyoto standards.

I found an article from Dec. 2003 that mentions two are on track:

On target

Sweden +3.3%
UK +1.4%

Off target

Germany -1.3%
Luxembourg -5.6%
France -9.5%
Italy -10.2%
Greece -10.7%
Netherlands -12.1%
Portugal -14%
Finland -16.5%
Belgium -22.9%
Austria -24.5%
Ireland -26.8%
Spain -33.3%
Denmark -37.8%

 

[naddicott]

Interesting stuff! I would love to see more links on these points (good or bad).

I didn't realise NAFTA had a seperate environmental agency. Both the US and Canada could do a lot better on toxic emissions.

The discussion regarding Kyoto is a slight tangent. Canada signed the Kyoto protocol in 1998, not sure how well it is meeting its targets. Technically speaking, one would usually treat "toxic emissions" and "greenhouse emissions" as seperate categories (although they share many sources). Toxic emissions tend to be a little more localised in nature.

China definitely needs to start thinking about sustainability in more ways than just population control. I would have no personal problem if goods coming in from China were more expensive because the externalised costs from their manufacture got priced in at some point.

 

[Infohawk]

What makes this part of the "take that department"? Why does this make some of you, notably Edge3d, so happy? Are we supposed to feel good that our neighbor is lagging in toxic emmissions? What's next, feeling good about ourselves if a contagious plague breaks out in Canada or Mexico?

 

[Edge3D]

Originally posted by: Infohawk
What makes this part of the "take that department"? Why does this make some of you, notably Edge3d, so happy? Are we supposed to feel good that our neighbor is lagging in toxic emmissions? What's next, feeling good about ourselves if a contagious plague breaks out in Canada or Mexico?

It doesnt make any of us happy.
Its just that some of realize that the USA is not nearly as bad as the extremist anti-American "environmentalist" groups within this nation would have the populace believe.
We are actually a very clean nation, especially compared to developing and 3rd world nations... China is a great example as others have illustrated.

It only makes us happy to see that the environmentalist wackos can admit that we arent nearly as bad as we're made out to be.

 

[Painman]

Environmentalism is essentially a Conservative paradigm, not a Liberal one, though both camps find common ground on that issue for their own reasons... Charrison is one of the most fiscally conservative posters here and the wisdom in the idea seems apparent to him. Nothing "wacko" about it, it's called sustainability.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Edge3D

It doesnt make any of us happy.
Its just that some of realize that the USA is not nearly as bad as the extremist anti-American "environmentalist" groups within this nation would have the populace believe.
We are actually a very clean nation, especially compared to developing and 3rd world nations... China is a great example as others have illustrated.

It only makes us happy to see that the environmentalist wackos can admit that we arent nearly as bad as we're made out to be.

I've noticed you have a problem with strawman arguments (a type of fallacious reasoning)

There are no environmentalist groups that are anti-American and that argue that the US is "bad." You construct a fabricated opponent that is easier to attack. The problem is nobody is making those arguments against you.

"We are actually a very clean nation, especially compared to developing and 3rd world nations... China is a great example as others have illustrated."
What's your evidence that we are a very clean nation? This article only shows that Canada is dirtier than us (in certain respects). They could be dirtier than us and we could still be dirty nevertheless. What proof do you have that we are a very clean nation?

 

[Edge3D]

I'm not going to waste my time digging up the proof you need to see how we are a cleaner nation than 90% of the developing world and even other modernized nations such as Canada.

Did you miss this? The video is hilarious.
But Mexico is saved.. LOL. We MUST be PUNISHED.

No one needs to wage argument, I'm just making it clear that there ARE people out there like the people who made this film who believe we are some kind of special evil.

Just more environmentalist wackos at work.

 

[Stunt]

Oh yeah...if it was up to environmentalists, we'd sit around all day get high and eat nuts and greens. I'm not saying all pollution is bad, it IS the price we must pay for technology and living standards that we have been acustomed to.

Although i do not like the drastic rise in asma cases in cities, it is negative on peoples health and is a burrden on the health system.
Personally one solution is having the regulations voluntary, but instead of giving all companies tax cuts like bush did, just give to the ones that are implementing.
Therefore they can implement cleaner systems for relatively low cost.

Also, if a lot of companies work towards implementation, you get a whole new industry of emissions r&d, which can create jobs and clean the air at the same time.

On the Kyoto issue, i can't find the facts off hand on how each country is doing but the rating system you have doesn't include US or canada, two countries being discussed in this thread. To say china and russia aren't implementing is a good point, i would like to say that they pulled out AFTER the US did...kinda hard to discourage pollution from these countries when the US decided against it first. (not trying to bash the US but this is what happened, whether they would have gone ahead with no US pullout is unknown.)