Canada inches toward private medicine

zendari

Banned
May 27, 2005
6,558
0
0
Text

TORONTO - Canadians have long prized their public healthcare system as a reflection of national values, and have looked askance at the inequities of private medical care in the United States.

But now that the Canadian Supreme Court has ruled private health insurers should be allowed to compete with the public system, the future of Canadian healthcare is a question mark.

"For our government, it's a very strong indictment of the way they've handled the system," says Dr. Albert Schumacher, president of the Canadian Medical Association. "I hope it will move us forward in the debate. 'Private' has always been used by politicians as a very evil word, associated with America and for-profit. But it's not necessarily so."

It all started with a disgruntled doctor, Dr. Jacques Chaoulli, and his patient, George Zeliotis, a retired salesman from Quebec who waited nearly a year for a hip replacement.
"There are tens of thousands of Mr. Zeliotis out there languishing on waiting lists," Dr. Schumacher says. His patients, for example, go to nearby Detroit and pay out-of-pocket to get CAT scans in six days instead of waiting six months in Canada.

By the end of this year, the federal government has promised to establish benchmarks for "medically acceptable wait times" for treatment of cancer, heart disease, and other ailments. The government is already spending billions to try to reduce waiting lists.

"No minister of health can say, 'We're going to deny you a right that exists in the province of Quebec,' " Monahan says. "As a matter of political reality, it's applicable in all provinces."

The man who sparked this revolution was often dismissed as a gadfly during the years he spent fighting the system.

Chaoulli once went on a hunger strike to protest fines levied on him for charging fees. Chaoulli represented himself in court, and his rough yet impassioned arguments struck home with the court.
Cannon hopes Chaoulli's victory dampens the ardor for Canadian-style healthcare in the US.

For many Canadians, private healthcare wears the scarlet A - for America.

The public appears ambivalent about the ruling. A new poll conducted for the Canadian Medical Association finds that 52 percent of Canadians view the decision "favorably," and even more said it will reduce wait times. But when asked if the ruling would weaken the public system, 54 percent agreed, saying it was "a bad thing."

Allyson Lange, a federal government employee, says she would support a parallel, private health system but doesn't expect dramatic changes.

"There would be too much opposition," Ms. Lange says. "We see a lot of what goes on in the US - people go broke because they have a health issue."



It's great that our neighbors up north see the value in the quality of the American system are are moving to duplicate it for their own people. The Canadian liberals are opening their eyes, perhaps their American counterparts can do the same.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
"There would be too much opposition," Ms. Lange says. "We see a lot of what goes on in the US - people go broke because they have a health issue."

I love that. Judging by the wait times a person goes dead before he is seen.

What is worse, going broke or dying because you cant get that surgury in in the next 12 months?

If they actually manage to get this thing privatized Ill be amazed. Once people are on the take there is no going back. Take a look at the current SS problem right here in the states. The majority of Americans know the system is broken but dont want to mess with it for fear of not getting that check when they turn 65.
 

zendari

Banned
May 27, 2005
6,558
0
0
Ah, but didn't you know? Waiting in line for a year, and having to drive hundreds of miles and pay 100% out of pocket for checkups is what the left considers quality healthcare.
 

Kenazo

Lifer
Sep 15, 2000
10,429
1
81
The canadian healthcare system is a great one to die in. When it comes to paliative care we can't be beat.... mostly b/c you don't have to pay for it.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: zendari


"There would be too much opposition," Ms. Lange says. "We see a lot of what goes on in the US - people go broke because they have a health issue."



It's great that our neighbors up north see the value in the quality of the American system are are moving to duplicate it for their own people. The Canadian liberals are opening their eyes, perhaps their American counterparts can do the same.

I guess you missed that part?
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: zendari
Ah, but didn't you know? Waiting in line for a year, and having to drive hundreds of miles and pay 100% out of pocket for checkups is what the left considers quality healthcare.

Socialists often want to spread the misery.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: zendari

"There would be too much opposition," Ms. Lange says. "We see a lot of what goes on in the US - people go broke because they have a health issue."

It's great that our neighbors up north see the value in the quality of the American system are are moving to duplicate it for their own people. The Canadian liberals are opening their eyes, perhaps their American counterparts can do the same.

I guess you missed that part?

They missed a whole lot more, but that is a common theme with the young ones on this board, I suspect they failed their leap tests.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: zendari

"There would be too much opposition," Ms. Lange says. "We see a lot of what goes on in the US - people go broke because they have a health issue."

It's great that our neighbors up north see the value in the quality of the American system are are moving to duplicate it for their own people. The Canadian liberals are opening their eyes, perhaps their American counterparts can do the same.

I guess you missed that part?

They missed a whole lot more, but that is a common theme with the young ones on this board, I suspect they failed their leap tests.

ok Mr. Consitution


 

Todd33

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 2003
7,842
2
81
One broken system call the other system broken.. I think I've heard this before.
 

zendari

Banned
May 27, 2005
6,558
0
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: zendari

"There would be too much opposition," Ms. Lange says. "We see a lot of what goes on in the US - people go broke because they have a health issue."

It's great that our neighbors up north see the value in the quality of the American system are are moving to duplicate it for their own people. The Canadian liberals are opening their eyes, perhaps their American counterparts can do the same.

I guess you missed that part?

They missed a whole lot more, but that is a common theme with the young ones on this board, I suspect they failed their leap tests.

It's a common thieme with all young ones.

Text

I guess my parents generation (people born in or around the '60s) is so repugnant and laughably pathetic. This board at least certainly has a plethora of bitter angry middle aged liberals.

 

Tommunist

Golden Member
Dec 1, 2004
1,544
0
0
I can't wait until people stop veiwing this as some sort of sporting event - OH MAN LOOK - SOCIALISM IS GOING DOWN!!! MY TEAM IS WINNING!!!! I guess it makes it easier for me to know what certain people around here are going to think without having actually pay attention to them...

i hate you all...seriously.

------------------------------------

US people becoming broke b/c of health issues. Certainly happens but not sure how much.

Canadians having to wait a long time for their healthcare - any Canadians who actually know what to chime in?

Both of these seem like mostly BS propoganda spouted by either side.
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,805
4,893
136
Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: zendari

"There would be too much opposition," Ms. Lange says. "We see a lot of what goes on in the US - people go broke because they have a health issue."

It's great that our neighbors up north see the value in the quality of the American system are are moving to duplicate it for their own people. The Canadian liberals are opening their eyes, perhaps their American counterparts can do the same.

I guess you missed that part?

They missed a whole lot more, but that is a common theme with the young ones on this board, I suspect they failed their leap tests.

It's a common thieme with all young ones.

Text

I guess my parents generation (people born in or around the '60s) is so repugnant and laughably pathetic. This board at least certainly has a plethora of bitter angry middle aged liberals.




It's good to hate one's parents.

I bet they even tried marijuana.

Rat them out immediately, they are pathetic socialists and deserve to die.

 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: feralkid
Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: zendari

"There would be too much opposition," Ms. Lange says. "We see a lot of what goes on in the US - people go broke because they have a health issue."

It's great that our neighbors up north see the value in the quality of the American system are are moving to duplicate it for their own people. The Canadian liberals are opening their eyes, perhaps their American counterparts can do the same.

I guess you missed that part?

They missed a whole lot more, but that is a common theme with the young ones on this board, I suspect they failed their leap tests.

It's a common thieme with all young ones.

Text

I guess my parents generation (people born in or around the '60s) is so repugnant and laughably pathetic. This board at least certainly has a plethora of bitter angry middle aged liberals.




It's good to hate one's parents.

I bet they even tried marijuana.

Rat them out immediately, they are pathetic socialists and deserve to die.

How dare someone put quality of life above profits!!
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Originally posted by: zendariThis board at least certainly has a plethora of bitter angry middle aged liberals.

And a good supply of noob republicans who have no ideas or solutions, only an innate ability to Yahoo all day long instead of working and a sickening desire to cheerlead the failures of society. How about a nice OP that concerns itself with whom we have to go after in OUR OWN country to reduce the unmanageable cost of our OWN healthcare system? Oh yes, I forget you are surely covered by your parents health insurance and would have no idea what a premium was even if one bit you on your ass let along a utility bill or a mortgage payment. There are maybe a handful of people on this board who support a national health care system. There are much more that want our own PRIVATE health care costs reduced. But hey, whatever feeds you misguided hatred of your own country and its people works for me. It makes your posts and opinions so much more easy to dismiss.

Edit: I never read (past tense) the National health insurance...yes ? No? Why? thread as I don't agree with it, so my assesment that there are only a handful here that support it was off. Not all dems want it, I am no exception.
 

zendari

Banned
May 27, 2005
6,558
0
0
Wrong on so many counts as usual, umbrella39.

I love how you can pigeonhole my entire life on a message board. FYI I have my own apartment and pay for it myself. Not working? I thought you said that forum soldiering is my job?

And I posted my health insurance reform ideas in the national health insurance thread. I assume you missed it.



What's to be done about rising medical costs? Here are some suggestions by experts, not all politically easy to obtain:

? Provide more information to consumers on what drug works, what procedures are best, which hospitals and physicians have good records. Insurance, for instance, shouldn't cover extra costs if a patient uses a brand-name drug when a cheaper generic does the job.

? Cut off expensive treatment if it extends someone's life only a few days or months.

? Spend more on prevention of disease by encouraging better lifestyles, improved nutrition, and other steps.

? Ban or control the advertising of prescription drugs to consumers. The "hype" in the ads that pepper the evening news and other programs has swelled drug sales and taken up physicians' time, suggests Mr. Caplan. But there is little indication that the extra drug consumption has improved health by much.

? Cap malpractice awards so doctors need not prescribe so many tests and other defensive practices.

? Let HMOs and other healthcare providers return to tighter management of costs, procedures that worked in the 1990s but were abandoned after severe criticism by customers and the press.

Text



Although polls show that many people fear they will not be able to pay their medical bills from their own resources, the reality is that most of us pay for only a small portion of our medical care:

Every time we consume $1 worth of hospital care, we pay only about three cents out of pocket; 97 cents is paid by a third party (employer, insurance company or government).
Every time we consume $1 worth of physician services, we pay less than 15 cents out of pocket.
For the health care system as a whole, every time we consume $1 in services, we pay only 18 cents out of pocket.

Text
 

zendari

Banned
May 27, 2005
6,558
0
0
Originally posted by: feralkid

It's good to hate one's parents.

I bet they even tried marijuana.

Rat them out immediately, they are pathetic socialists and deserve to die.

My mom did, dad didn't. Today my mom manages a Panera Bread and my dad is a successful businessman. Coincidence?
 

Tommunist

Golden Member
Dec 1, 2004
1,544
0
0
Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: feralkid

It's good to hate one's parents.

I bet they even tried marijuana.

Rat them out immediately, they are pathetic socialists and deserve to die.

My mom did, dad didn't. Today my mom manages a Panera Bread and my dad is a successful businessman. Coincidence?

not really. man are you brainwashed - it's scary!!!
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: zendari

What's to be done about rising medical costs? Here are some suggestions by experts, not all politically easy to obtain:

? Cut off expensive treatment if it extends someone's life only a few days or months.

Show me what "experts" said this.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: feralkid

It's good to hate one's parents.

I bet they even tried marijuana.

Rat them out immediately, they are pathetic socialists and deserve to die.

My mom did, dad didn't. Today my mom manages a Panera Bread and my dad is a successful businessman. Coincidence?

Does this coincidence also explain your seething hatred for women in general? You have no respect for your mother and that seems to include the female gender as a whole.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,655
6,222
126
The US will have a Candianish system a lot sooner than Canada has an Americanish system. Mark my words.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
This thread is funny. A conservative starts a thread that a mirror image of what a liberal would start and is immediately greeted with "Get a room." Because it's not like there's ever a thread where the liberals just post a link to an article than spend a while stroking each other over it.

Then another liberal jumps in with a comment about how we shouldn't be cheering for the failure of another country however does he say anything about that when the liberals cheer for failures in America? It's not OK to cheer for your team when it's America vs. Canada, but by all means cheer for failures of Republicans vs. Democrats.

This forum is such a bunch of partisan hacks it makes my head hurt.
 

zendari

Banned
May 27, 2005
6,558
0
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: zendari

What's to be done about rising medical costs? Here are some suggestions by experts, not all politically easy to obtain:

? Cut off expensive treatment if it extends someone's life only a few days or months.

Show me what "experts" said this.

The link is provided. You of course will dismiss them as corporate evil greedy thugs.

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: zendari
My mom did, dad didn't. Today my mom manages a Panera Bread and my dad is a successful businessman. Coincidence?

Does this coincidence also explain your seething hatred for women in general? You have no respect for your mother and that seems to include the female gender as a whole.

I suppose. So you have to be an abortionist or else you have no respect for the female gender?
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Originally posted by: sandorski
The US will have a Candianish system a lot sooner than Canada has an Americanish system. Mark my words.
What's wrong with a mixed system? Why so afraid? Sounds to me like Canada would be smart to allow optional, supplemental, private insurance. It's the kind of system I'd vote for.

But I know if such a thing ever came to pass, liberals would immediately start whining about how QUALITY health care is for the rich. Damn those rich and their private health care. They should suffer on the same crappy national health care that everyone else gets. Blah blah blah.