Can you learn C++ like any other language? *as part of on job training*

[Zombie]

I don't think it is possible to do it within reasonable period of time.. Unless you already know something like java or c. C++ is very deep and complex making it very hard to learn as you go along.


here is the background....

We have somebody here who is a VB programmer (uses .NET). She wrote a web based issue track software for us and it is aweful. It's barely useble and the damn thing crashes after 5 queries. This person has been asked to learn c++ and work on existing stand alone executable. Her first statement today was "oh I saw c++ book and it seems like c++ is a lot like c++":roll:

I can't see this person understanding the complexities of cross-platform programming. If she some how does manage to wirte some c++ code I doubt it would be usable.

 

[MAME]

C++ is the first language I learned. I think it's very easy to learn


"c++ is a lot like c++", wtf does that mean??

 

[Electric Amish]

Sure you can.... It might actually be better to learn C++ first, except for maybe Java, since C++ is generally taught in a more Object Oriented manner than other languages.

 

[Pex]

Originally posted by: MAME"c++ is a lot like c++", wtf does that mean??

 

[NuclearNed]

Like any language, C++ has certain concepts that are difficult to learn and master. But once you learn it well, it gives you the power to do anything you want with a pc. It also gives you lots of leeway to really screw stuff up. That being said, it and its variants are my "languages of choice." I would be cautious about using any code written by a C++ noob.

 

[MAME]

Originally posted by: Electric Amish
Sure you can.... It might actually be better to learn C++ first, except for maybe Java, since C++ is generally taught in a more Object Oriented manner than other languages.

I agree

 

[Ranger X]

Going from VB.NET to C++ will be tough for her, especially since she never even mastered VB.NET in the first place. It's a whole new realm and learning C++ is one thing but mastering it is another. She should be able to learn it and be able to use it if her job calls for it.

 

[halik]

VB barely qualifies to a programming language.... it doesnt teach you any good programming practices and you can teach it to a monkey and get it certified within 48 hours

Server side JAVA is by far the most effective and efficent way to do large scale web apps. Anyone who's done any any big back end system with java and some other thing (php,perl etc) will agree with me.

 

[Descartes]

There is absolutely positively no way she can learn C++ and release a quality product from her first experience with it; it simply won't happen. If her work really is that bad, then I'm assuming her failing is largely around the design of the system. Moving to C++ won't ameliorate this problem. If you want a successful project you should find someone well-versed in OOAD, C++, and mentoring other programmers wishing to learn the same.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: halik
VB barely qualifies to a programming language.... it doesnt teach you any good programming practices and you can teach it to a monkey and get it certified within 48 hours

That's an exceptionally naive statement, but if you choose to revel in the noxious dogma of such then feel free.

 

[atom]

If she can't code up a proper program in a language she does know, what chance does she have in a language she doesn't know?

 

[Titan]

Learning the language of C++ can be easy.

Building production applications with C++ takes experience (i'd say from building at least half a dozen small projects) and requires some knowldegde of good programming practices. C and C++ are powerful, that means you have more rope to hang yourself with. It doesn't sound like she is capable in this regard.

 

[silverpig]

Hello wrlod!

How's that for my first time?

 

[Zombie]

Originally posted by: halik
VB barely qualifies to a programming language.... it doesnt teach you any good programming practices and you can teach it to a monkey and get it certified within 48 hours

Server side JAVA is by far the most effective and efficent way to do large scale web apps. Anyone who's done any any big back end system with java and some other thing (php,perl etc) will agree with me.

it's nothing huge, app takes data from user and feeds it in to access (1 to 1) realtional DB. That too is garbage. None of the report functions work and even a simple blank space crashes it. This shows lack of good programing fundamentals and that is what concerns me.


Most c++ books teach you a simple but ineffecient way to do things and then later on harder but more efficient way to do it. This is why on job training of C++ is a big NO in my opinion.

 

[Ameesh]

Originally posted by: halik
VB barely qualifies to a programming language.... it doesnt teach you any good programming practices and you can teach it to a monkey and get it certified within 48 hours

Server side JAVA is by far the most effective and efficent way to do large scale web apps. Anyone who's done any any big back end system with java and some other thing (php,perl etc) will agree with me.

most of amazon's back end is written in c++ not java.

 

[Zombie]

Originally posted by: Ameesh

Originally posted by: halik
VB barely qualifies to a programming language.... it doesnt teach you any good programming practices and you can teach it to a monkey and get it certified within 48 hours

Server side JAVA is by far the most effective and efficent way to do large scale web apps. Anyone who's done any any big back end system with java and some other thing (php,perl etc) will agree with me.

most of amazon's back end is written in c++ not java.

for obvious reasons I guess. Is Java2 still just as bad for enterprise applications as Java was?

 

[sciencewhiz]

You are asking two different questions

Yes, some people can learn C++ through on the job training.

No, that lady can't.

 

[GhettoFob]

Originally posted by: silverpig
Hello wrlod!

How's that for my first time?

nice!

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Ameesh

Originally posted by: halik
VB barely qualifies to a programming language.... it doesnt teach you any good programming practices and you can teach it to a monkey and get it certified within 48 hours

Server side JAVA is by far the most effective and efficent way to do large scale web apps. Anyone who's done any any big back end system with java and some other thing (php,perl etc) will agree with me.

most of amazon's back end is written in c++ not java.

well that's not that surprising... they get millions of hits overall and java is not the fastest horse in the stable

However in terms of keeping everything organized and clean, java is definitely a great way to go. I used to work for a fairly big tech company that provides EDI for ford's suppliers and all of that back end was in java. Even though the whole thing was HUGE, it still wasnt too hard to work on because everything was nice and clean. That was back in 2000 though, so I'm not sure how much it's changed. j2ee beans provide decent enough functionallity right ouf of the box so to speak

 

[StageLeft]

I think it can be done if you're a decent programmer and spend some time on it. I've done little in it and I know it's more difficult than Java, but when I had to learn that I was getting up to speed quickly. If you're a good programmer with vb.net, c++ will have a lot of the same concepts anyway. VB6 to c++ would be slower.

The problem is, this lady of yours sounds crappy, so I wouldn't trust her to learn it quickly.

 

[Spamela]

sound way too risky to me - if she can't get something right using
VB, then she's surely going to have major problems with C++.

 

[StageLeft]

None of the report functions work and even a simple blank space crashes it. This shows lack of good programing fundamentals and that is what concerns me.

Well, all my apps are that bad too. That's why we have testers to tell me that it didn't work, and now I have to fix it If I was responsible for entire rollout of anything I built most of it wouldn't work unless very simple, because I really don't like bug-testing

 

[DAGTA]

VB.NET is very different than previous version of VB. It's more strict and closer to languages like Java and C++. I think it's possible she can learn C++ but it's going to take some time before she's good enough with it to make something solid and stable. Maybe she'd be better off going to C# in .NET. It's faster to learn, powerful, and there are plenty of examples online of converting VB.NET code to C# code.

-DAGTA

 

[cerebusPu]

Originally posted by: sciencewhiz
You are asking two different questions

Yes, some people can learn C++ through on the job training.

No, that lady can't.

what he said. ^

 

[Zombie]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

None of the report functions work and even a simple blank space crashes it. This shows lack of good programing fundamentals and that is what concerns me.

Well, all my apps are that bad too. That's why we have testers to tell me that it didn't work, and now I have to fix it If I was responsible for entire rollout of anything I built most of it wouldn't work unless very simple, because I really don't like bug-testing

, If the app is for internal use then developer is in charge of testing ( atleast in our 3000 employee organization). I don't have time to test her stuff and my stuff and tell her fix the damn thing. I just stop using it and wait for my manager to come crying to me for not using it.


Also if some of you have missed my earliar statement. We are trying to get away from MFC and Microsoft dependency and this lady is the biggest Microsoft fan out there. She goes to Microsoft Office training. Now what real developer would ever wanna go to a god damn office 2xxx training for the whole day.