Can you have TOO much anti-aliasing? (eg. Kohan 2)

[sofakng]

I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to video games and gaming, but I'm wondering if you could have TOO much anti-aliasing enabled. For example, I tried playing a game called Kohan 2 with 16x "combined" anti-aliasing (no idea what it means, but it seemed to be the highest setting in the nVidia drivers), and everything in the game appeared blurry.

On a side note, whenever I scrolled the map inside the game it seemed like everything was very, very choppy... this happened even when I lowered the quality to 8xAA (both used 16xAF though). The game itself ran fine both times, but whenever I scrolled it became extremely choppy. Anybody know why that happened and how I could fix it?

 

[zakee00]

dont use anything above 4X. it kills your framerates (smothness) and it unnessary. it can also make it appear blurry.

 

[sofakng]

Which 4x though?

Using nHancer I can choose between "Multisampling, 4x" "Multisampling, 4x gamma" "Supersampling 4x4" and "Combined 4xS"

Which one of those is best? ...and should I leave anisotropic filtering enabled? Is there anything else I can enable to increase graphics quality in RTS games like Rise of Nations and Kohan 2?

 

[zakee00]

use multisampling 4x. super and combined kill your fps (but are "higher quality". and yes, leave AF enabled if you can..that is, if it dosnt cause the game to become unplayable.

 

[sofakng]

Ok, what's that "4x gamma" mean? Should I use it?

 

[zakee00]

i have no idea about "gamma" never even heard of it.

 

[PrayForDeath]

What's your video card?
I never heard of 16xAA (combined or not). 4xgamma most probably means the video card will use gamma correction with AA which enhances IQ at no expense AFAIK.
Rise of Nations is a 2D game, so Anisotropic Filtering and AntiAliasing don't work in it.
Have you maxed your ingame details in Kohan II? What about the resolution? If you're playing on a low resolution with high AA the screen will look blurry. Try 1024x786 as a minimum.
Again this all depends on your video card.

 

[sofakng]

I'm using a Geforce 6800GT (PCI Express). According to thread here antialiasing and anisotropic filtering DOES make a difference...

 

[otispunkmeyer]

16x aa?

ive only heard of that on ATi cards, that temporal anti-aliasing, that required you to have tge same FPS as refresh rate

i only see, off, 2x, 2xQ, 4x and 8XS

 

[sofakng]

Are you using nHancer or just the nVidia drivers?

I'm using nHancer and it gives me a ton of options, including Combined 16xAA...

 

[Matthias99]

I'm using nHancer and it gives me a ton of options, including Combined 16xAA...

I have no idea what "16xAA" is, as NVIDIA hardware only supports up to 4x MSAA and 2xSSAA. Combining *those* gets you what they call "8xS" antialiasing. I'm guessing this is some experimental or unsupported feature, which is why it makes your game look like crap. Just don't use it.

Correctly functioning AA will not make your game look worse. Very high levels of it can soften the image slightly (what you might inaccurately call "blurriness"), but whether or not that is "good" is more of a personal preference.

 

[PrayForDeath]

Originally posted by: sofakng
I'm using a Geforce 6800GT (PCI Express). According to thread here antialiasing and anisotropic filtering DOES make a difference...

Great card.
Warcraft III is definitely 3D, but Rise of Nations is mainly 2D with some 3D animation:

Graphically, RoN was esthetically pleasing. The game was built in both 2D and 3D. The structures are 2D, and the game engine allows animated 3D elements. You are able to zoom in or out from afar for a bigger picture. The level of detail placed into the structures is amazing for a RTS game. Plus, the interface is easy to manage and not overwhelming.

So I don't think AA and AF would affect RON, but leave them on anyway.

 

[yhelothar]

Multisampling will blur your games. You will need to use Anisotropic filtering to compensate for it.
Supersampling takes a much bigger performance hit but does not blur your games, and may even make it sharper, since what it does is render it 2x or 4x larger, and then shrink it back down to the game's resolution. So 4x AA for 800x600 will be rendered as 1600x1200 and then downscaled back down to 800x600, thus taking a huge performance hit.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: virtualgames0
Multisampling will blur your games. You will need to use Anisotropic filtering to compensate for it.
Supersampling takes a much bigger performance hit but does not blur your games, and may even make it sharper, since what it does is render it 2x or 4x larger, and then shrink it back down to the game's resolution. So 4x AA for 800x600 will be rendered as 1600x1200 and then downscaled back down to 800x600, thus taking a huge performance hit.

That's exactly what MSAA does, but adaptively (so it focuses mostly on edges and high-contrast areas). SSAA does the whole screen, which is why it's such a ridiculous performance hit.

They both "blur" your game. It's not true "blurriness", however, but blending of the rendering point samples so that edges of objects and textures aren't so jagged and sharp. At high levels, this can give a slightly softer look to the scene, which some people don't like.

AF sharpens up textures, especially ones you're viewing at a sharp angle. This has nothing to do with AA. Running without AF at high resolutions will usually result in blurry-looking textures regardless of your AA settings.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Too much is when your frame rates start to drop past your liking.

 

[VIAN]

I'd do 2xQ.

 

[bobsmith1492]

2xQ is really nice; agreed. It seems quite fast, and looks just like 4x; in essence, it does what they say it does!

 

[ssvegeta1010]

Are you sure that you are not running at a non native resolution on an LCD?

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by: virtualgames0
Multisampling will blur your games. You will need to use Anisotropic filtering to compensate for it.
Supersampling takes a much bigger performance hit but does not blur your games, and may even make it sharper, since what it does is render it 2x or 4x larger, and then shrink it back down to the game's resolution. So 4x AA for 800x600 will be rendered as 1600x1200 and then downscaled back down to 800x600, thus taking a huge performance hit.

MSAA (multi-sampling) doesn't "blur" anything, IMO. It anti-aliases ("smooths") the edge artifacts that result from insufficient resolution. Supersampling (which is what you're getting with 16xAA on nVidia cards: a combination of MS and SSAA) basically renders the whole scene at higher than the screen res, then downsamples to screen res. This is more akin to blur, IMO, and this blurring is most evident with text.

If you want to call the smoothing blurring, OK. SSAA touches every pixel, thus "blurring" the whole screen (including, most noticably, text). MSAA only affects polygon edges, tho, thus leaving most of the image (including text) "crisp." As a result, tho, you typically want to enable AF with MSAA to filter the whole scene. SSAA performs a sort of AF (albeit with a low number of samples, typically only 2x on consumer boards) on textures, so it doesn't necessarily need (as much) extra AF.

You want real blurring, though, then check out nVidia's Quincunx SSAA.

16xAA is available/unlockable on nV cards using certain software tools, AFAIK. I'm guessing it's 4xMS + 2x2SS AA. (I write the SS as XxY, denoting horizontal x vertical supersampling. So "4x"SS is actually 2x2, while "2x"SS can either be 2x0 or 0x2: either double the horizontal or vertical res [before downsampling to screen res].)

8xAA is also a combination of 4xMSAA and 2x0SS AA, so it's also very stressful on the video card. That probably explains the choppiness you experienced: the card is just rendering a lot, moreso when you scroll the screen, so your framerate is dropping.

4xS combines 2xMS and 2xSS AA, IIRC.

As for the "gamma" option, I think nV introduced gamma-correction for their AA in recent drivers. I'm not sure if it's an improvement over their regular AA, works as well as ATi's gamma-correction, or slows anything down.