can you fire someone for any or no reason in an at-will state?

[nageov3t]

I was having a discussing with my boss today over whether or not he could fire someone just because he (my boss) doesn't like the person in question.

he performs his job adequately, but he's the most annoying person I've ever met, to the point where he might be single-handedly lowering the productivity of everyone around him (doesn't bother me so much, but my boss keeps bitching that he can't get a single thing done whenever this guy is in the same room as him.

 

[funkymatt]

i guess technically yes, but it's good practice for the company to come up with a reason- whether it's attendance or otherwise.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Here in WA at least, absolutely. However they seldom will, as terminating 'at-will' is a no fault firing meaning the employee is going to get unemployment as long as they're qualified in other respects (hours worked, etc).

 

[Capt Caveman]

If the employee sues, you better have lots and lots of documentation.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
If the employee sues, you better have lots and lots of documentation.

Nope. If it's at will, as almost all non-contract employee/employer jobs are, you can fire someone for any reason, no reason, good reasons or bad reasons, so long as it is not an illegal reason, i.e. sex/race/religious discrimination. A response to a lawsuit alleging wrongful termination providing the plaintiff was fired because he was "annoying" is sufficient. The plaintiff would have to prove the illegal reason, and if he didn't have enough documentation to support it, it'd likely be dismissed early on. But if you are white and you fire a minority employee, documentation is a good idea.

 

[FallenHero]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
If the employee sues, you better have lots and lots of documentation.

bingo.

As much as at-will employee's may not have job security, the business still needs a reason to fire someone in case of a lawsuit claiming they were fired based on race/sex/religion ect...

 

[BoomerD]

You can let them go for a variety of reason, but firing them usually means for cause, and could open the door for lawsuits. (yes, even in "at will" states.)

 

[gnumantsc]

We had a guy that was like that he nearly caused a physical fight at work, annoying as hell and even the customers hated him. Sadly it took too long to get rid of him it should've been done after 3 months but he stayed for about 9 I think. I think he had Asberger's because he was not normal and said I was told this and I follow this 100% unless I was told otherwise. His notes were verbal diarrhea that no one read because you would get confused...

 

[torpid]

No. For the most part, yes, but you can't fire someone due to belong to certain protected groups. Firing someone because they are annoying is fine. I wish they would do that here. But then maybe I'd always be at risk.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
If the employee sues, you better have lots and lots of documentation.

Nope. If it's at will, as almost all non-contract employee/employer jobs are, you can fire someone for any reason, no reason, good reasons or bad reasons, so long as it is not an illegal reason, i.e. sex/race/religious discrimination. A response to a lawsuit alleging wrongful termination providing the plaintiff was fired because he was "annoying" is sufficient. The plaintiff would have to prove the illegal reason, and if he didn't have enough documentation to support it, it'd likely be dismissed early on. But if you are white and you fire a minority employee, documentation is a good idea.

Anyone from your HR or Legal departments will disagree with you. Any smart company will have documented hiring and termination policies. These policies must be followed for all employees and not just when you see fit.

One example - Fire me for being annoying without documentation, warnings that I have signed-off on, etc and I'm going to sue you for racial discrimination b/c I don't think I'm annoying and no one has told me I am. If anything, I have emails from other mangers and employees saying that I'm a great employee. Are you willing to take the risk of losing in court or settling out of court and having to pay out $10,000s of in lawyer fees?

 

[LuckyTaxi]

I'm in PA - we just let 5 ppl go two weeks ago. just like that.

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

One example - Fire me for being annoying without documentation, warnings that I have signed-off on, etc and I'm going to sue you for racial discrimination b/c I don't think I'm annoying and no one has told me I am. If anything, I have emails from other mangers and employees saying that I'm a great employee. Are you willing to take the risk of losing in court or settling out of court and having to pay out $10,000s of in lawyer fees?

And this folks is why a lot of small companies are not very racially diverse. Why would someone want to put their business up as a hostage to people like this guy? If I don't like you I will get rid of you. Why would you want to work for me if I didn't like you? You sure as hell wouldn't ever be advancing.

 

[Finalnight]

My experience:

Yes, but I would always find cause to avoid paying unemployment benefits.

 

[middlehead]

They can absolutely fire for no reason. What they have to be careful of is firing for the wrong reasons.

 

[Dr. Detroit]

If they fire you "for no reason" you are entitled to unemployment. Companyies have no interest in paying you for unemployment so they usually find a reason/cause.

 

[jjones]

Doesn't matter. The only thing is whether or not he would collect unemployment, which in this case he would.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

One example - Fire me for being annoying without documentation, warnings that I have signed-off on, etc and I'm going to sue you for racial discrimination b/c I don't think I'm annoying and no one has told me I am. If anything, I have emails from other mangers and employees saying that I'm a great employee. Are you willing to take the risk of losing in court or settling out of court and having to pay out $10,000s of in lawyer fees?

And this folks is why a lot of small companies are not very racially diverse. Why would someone want to put their business up as a hostage to people like this guy? If I don't like you I will get rid of you. Why would you want to work for me if I didn't like you? You sure as hell wouldn't ever be advancing.

Plenty of racial diversity in small companies on the east and west coast. Run a company the way you want it but be sure that you document things. Though, if you interview enough Charles Allen's in the world and don't hire them b/c they're black, don't be surprised if you get sued.

In smaller companies that I've worked at, we've given severance packages to terminated employees as long as they sign a waiver that they want sue the company.