Can you believe this damn goverment is banning online gambling!!!

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Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
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"You continue to say there's all this risk, yet you don't say who is at risk"

Yes I have, and it's been quoted several times. And you again don't address the issues, instead you say it's the same as all other industries, and I already addressed why that isn't true.

As for your comment about "reward". I addressed that too. There is no wealth created by gambling, just transfer.



 

Slammy1

Platinum Member
Apr 8, 2003
2,112
0
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I really wouldn't call the gov't incompetent as much as bureaucratic, which can make them appear as incompetent when mistakes are made and no one wants to take the blame. I wouldn't say we're democratic as much as aristocratic. If I killed my wife I'd definitely go to jail, but a rich person just pays money (albeit, perhaps, quite a lot of it). I'm of a mind that you should be able to do whatever you want so long as it does not infringe on the rights of others, it's the latter part of that statement that leads to interperatation by self-motivated individuals. For example, many people view insurance scam as a victimless crime when it's anything but, both in higher premium costs at the consumer level and reallocation of resources by the companies. But you cannot force altruism on people, we are by our natures egocentric beings. We are all manipulated on some level by the government, sometimes to a good end sometimes not, but the rights of the individual play only a small part in the decision process. Unless, of course, that individual has a lot of money...

This all smacks of socialism/communism, whose fundamental flaw is the same as democracy. People are self centered, power corrupts. What's the solution, revolution? What motivates a person to perform for the common good? Certainly, this departs from the topic but the issues which arise from the discussion are quite germaine to this topic. The best influence you can hope for is a positive effect on the people you intract with.
 

Pastore

Diamond Member
Feb 9, 2000
9,728
0
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Fine...

You are well versed in "risk", surely you can see that there's no way to manage the risk of online gambling, it's way to easy to steal identity on the internet, or just not pay off gambling debts, and the potential losses are incredibly large, or know what entity is behind all the gambling sites, whch is why it's so much worse than other forms of ID theft, which are bad enough.

Your first few points apply DIRECTLY to every other industry that accepts credit cards as payment. Where are these potential losses coming from? ID theft issues would be solved with security and regulation, just like every other (reputable) online retailer does.

on the risk side-

1. a great deal of online shopping takes place between merchants that also have other relationships with their customers, ie Walmart, Target, Best Buy, which reduces risk for both parties.
2. stealing tangible goods is more involved and potentially riskier for the thief, somebody has to physically receive the goods, exposng themselves to possible arrest.
3. a person who buys a $500 tv is more likely to pay their credit card bill, as long as the tv keeps working, than a person who loses $500 in an online casino; at least that is my belief. You may be able to refute that if you can find a banker who wants to stake your average online gambler.

1. Ok, so how does newegg, provantage, buy.com, etc. survive without brick and mortar customers? Do you not feel safe ordering from these place because they don't have B&M stores?
2. Not sure what you're saying here.
3. I don't see a difference here between those two situations. Now if you had said a person who buys a $500 tv or a person who cash advances $500 worth of crack, then I'd agree. What makes online gamblers less likely to pay their bills?

Just because you wouldn't take on the risk of being a customer of or in the business of running an online gambling site/company, doesn't mean others shouldn't be allowed to.

EDIT: And as for your idea that the reward is just transfer of wealth, you're then saying that entertainment value is worth nothing, therefor me going to the movies is just a transfer of wealth from me to everyone that has their hand in the movie industry.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
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1. I didn't say all online shopping was safe. I almost mentioned established online only stores, like Amazon, and why they are less risky, but this topic isn't about writing a thesis about online shopping.
2. I don't see how to explain it any better.
3. I see a difference, you don't. That's fine.

If you have actual solutions to the problems I raised, I'll consider them. I don't mean just saying "regulate it", my whole point is it can't be regulated well enough, I want actual solutions.

I don't care about the risk to the customers or the business, just everybody else.

 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
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"EDIT: And as for your idea that the reward is just transfer of wealth, you're then saying that entertainment value is worth nothing, therefor me going to the movies is just a transfer of wealth from me to everyone that has their hand in the movie industry."

Actually I addressed that too, I agree that there is theoritical entertainment value, however as I think I said before, I'm not sure that since most people lose, the overall entertainment value is a positive value. ;)
 

pulse8

Lifer
May 3, 2000
20,860
1
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It's in the best interest of a site like PartyGaming, that is publicly traded, to remain as honest as possible. Also, when it comes to poker, they don't have any reason to cheat anyone. It's players against players.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
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Originally posted by: pulse8
It's in the best interest of a site like PartyGaming, that is publicly traded, to remain as honest as possible. Also, when it comes to poker, they don't have any reason to cheat anyone. It's players against players.


Yea right. Being publicly traded has absolutley nothing to do with being honest.

I trust Mars Candy company a far sight farther than 3/4 of publicly traded companies.

 

Pastore

Diamond Member
Feb 9, 2000
9,728
0
76
Originally posted by: Tom
"EDIT: And as for your idea that the reward is just transfer of wealth, you're then saying that entertainment value is worth nothing, therefor me going to the movies is just a transfer of wealth from me to everyone that has their hand in the movie industry."

Actually I addressed that too, I agree that there is theoritical entertainment value, however as I think I said before, I'm not sure that since most people lose, the overall entertainment value is a positive value. ;)

I think that's a very small percentage of online gamblers, as they wouldn't be repeat customers. If a guy deposits $500, loses it all, hates it, and deposits another $500 they have issues.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
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Originally posted by: Pastore
Originally posted by: Tom
"EDIT: And as for your idea that the reward is just transfer of wealth, you're then saying that entertainment value is worth nothing, therefor me going to the movies is just a transfer of wealth from me to everyone that has their hand in the movie industry."

Actually I addressed that too, I agree that there is theoritical entertainment value, however as I think I said before, I'm not sure that since most people lose, the overall entertainment value is a positive value. ;)

I think that's a very small percentage of online gamblers, as they wouldn't be repeat customers. If a guy deposits $500, loses it all, hates it, and deposits another $500 they have issues.


Are you serious ? Most people lose at gambling, it's mathmatical, not my opinion.

 

Pastore

Diamond Member
Feb 9, 2000
9,728
0
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Originally posted by: Tom
Originally posted by: Pastore
Originally posted by: Tom
"EDIT: And as for your idea that the reward is just transfer of wealth, you're then saying that entertainment value is worth nothing, therefor me going to the movies is just a transfer of wealth from me to everyone that has their hand in the movie industry."

Actually I addressed that too, I agree that there is theoritical entertainment value, however as I think I said before, I'm not sure that since most people lose, the overall entertainment value is a positive value. ;)

I think that's a very small percentage of online gamblers, as they wouldn't be repeat customers. If a guy deposits $500, loses it all, hates it, and deposits another $500 they have issues.


Are you serious ? Most people lose at gambling, it's mathmatical, not my opinion.

My point was not whether or not they're going to lose, my point was that some people LIKE playing even if they lose, and they're still getting entertainment out of it. If you lose and don't get any entertainment out of it, but keep playing, then you're an idiot.
 

pulse8

Lifer
May 3, 2000
20,860
1
81
Originally posted by: Tom
Originally posted by: pulse8
It's in the best interest of a site like PartyGaming, that is publicly traded, to remain as honest as possible. Also, when it comes to poker, they don't have any reason to cheat anyone. It's players against players.


Yea right. Being publicly traded has absolutley nothing to do with being honest.

I trust Mars Candy company a far sight farther than 3/4 of publicly traded companies.

I didn't say they because they are publicly traded that they should be trusted. With online gambling, especially poker, there's so much competition that even if there is the slightest question of honesty with a site people will just choose to not use them.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
Originally posted by: pulse8
Originally posted by: Tom
Originally posted by: pulse8
It's in the best interest of a site like PartyGaming, that is publicly traded, to remain as honest as possible. Also, when it comes to poker, they don't have any reason to cheat anyone. It's players against players.


Yea right. Being publicly traded has absolutley nothing to do with being honest.

I trust Mars Candy company a far sight farther than 3/4 of publicly traded companies.

I didn't say they because they are publicly traded that they should be trusted. With online gambling, especially poker, there's so much competition that even if there is the slightest question of honesty with a site people will just choose to not use them.


Where are people going to get this information about which sites are trustworthy ?

On internet forums ?

LOL !!!1111 !!!!!

 

pulse8

Lifer
May 3, 2000
20,860
1
81
Originally posted by: Tom
Originally posted by: pulse8
Originally posted by: Tom
Originally posted by: pulse8
It's in the best interest of a site like PartyGaming, that is publicly traded, to remain as honest as possible. Also, when it comes to poker, they don't have any reason to cheat anyone. It's players against players.


Yea right. Being publicly traded has absolutley nothing to do with being honest.

I trust Mars Candy company a far sight farther than 3/4 of publicly traded companies.

I didn't say they because they are publicly traded that they should be trusted. With online gambling, especially poker, there's so much competition that even if there is the slightest question of honesty with a site people will just choose to not use them.


Where are people going to get this information about which sites are trustworthy ?

On internet forums ?

LOL !!!1111 !!!!!

Where do people find out if anything is trustworthy on the internet? From other trusted users. Are you truly this dense?
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
Originally posted by: pulse8
Originally posted by: Tom
Originally posted by: pulse8
Originally posted by: Tom
Originally posted by: pulse8
It's in the best interest of a site like PartyGaming, that is publicly traded, to remain as honest as possible. Also, when it comes to poker, they don't have any reason to cheat anyone. It's players against players.


Yea right. Being publicly traded has absolutley nothing to do with being honest.

I trust Mars Candy company a far sight farther than 3/4 of publicly traded companies.

I didn't say they because they are publicly traded that they should be trusted. With online gambling, especially poker, there's so much competition that even if there is the slightest question of honesty with a site people will just choose to not use them.


Where are people going to get this information about which sites are trustworthy ?

On internet forums ?

LOL !!!1111 !!!!!

Where do people find out if anything is trustworthy on the internet? From other trusted users. Are you truly this dense?

Trusted users ? Trusted users of what ? Online gambling sites ?

 

Xylitol

Diamond Member
Aug 28, 2005
6,617
0
76
gayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Notice that there are about 3x more repubs voting than demos
And about 5 times more demos voting against than repubs
 

Atheus

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2005
7,313
2
0
In the UK financial news pages this has been reported as a strategy to prevent our companies succeeding in the US market. Party Poker and 888.com are both UK companies which have been quietly making billions from Americans over the last few years, this is unacceptable to the domestic US gambling industry, and so the govornment has stopped it. Simple.

Dunno if this is true, or if they really did it for moral reasons, but the fact that Vegas seems immune to any restrictive legislation at all... you have to wonder...
 
May 31, 2001
15,326
2
0
Originally posted by: Tom
Originally posted by: pulse8
Originally posted by: Tom
Originally posted by: pulse8
It's in the best interest of a site like PartyGaming, that is publicly traded, to remain as honest as possible. Also, when it comes to poker, they don't have any reason to cheat anyone. It's players against players.


Yea right. Being publicly traded has absolutley nothing to do with being honest.

I trust Mars Candy company a far sight farther than 3/4 of publicly traded companies.

I didn't say they because they are publicly traded that they should be trusted. With online gambling, especially poker, there's so much competition that even if there is the slightest question of honesty with a site people will just choose to not use them.


Where are people going to get this information about which sites are trustworthy ?

On internet forums ?

LOL !!!1111 !!!!!

You're right. Your information is obviously untrustworthy, look where it is.

Oh crap, I just replied on a forum. So my information is...

*HEAD EXPLODES*
 

Pastore

Diamond Member
Feb 9, 2000
9,728
0
76
Originally posted by: Tom
Originally posted by: pulse8
Originally posted by: Tom
Originally posted by: pulse8
Originally posted by: Tom
Originally posted by: pulse8
It's in the best interest of a site like PartyGaming, that is publicly traded, to remain as honest as possible. Also, when it comes to poker, they don't have any reason to cheat anyone. It's players against players.


Yea right. Being publicly traded has absolutley nothing to do with being honest.

I trust Mars Candy company a far sight farther than 3/4 of publicly traded companies.

I didn't say they because they are publicly traded that they should be trusted. With online gambling, especially poker, there's so much competition that even if there is the slightest question of honesty with a site people will just choose to not use them.


Where are people going to get this information about which sites are trustworthy ?

On internet forums ?

LOL !!!1111 !!!!!

Where do people find out if anything is trustworthy on the internet? From other trusted users. Are you truly this dense?

Trusted users ? Trusted users of what ? Online gambling sites ?

Why do you continue to believe these users are inherently liars and stealers, or otherwise untrustworthy.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
gambling alone+ credit card

not sure its such a great thing. i'd tax it heavily to offset societal damage
 

KarmaPolice

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
3,066
0
0
Originally posted by: Atheus
In the UK financial news pages this has been reported as a strategy to prevent our companies succeeding in the US market. Party Poker and 888.com are both UK companies which have been quietly making billions from Americans over the last few years, this is unacceptable to the domestic US gambling industry, and so the govornment has stopped it. Simple.

Dunno if this is true, or if they really did it for moral reasons, but the fact that Vegas seems immune to any restrictive legislation at all... you have to wonder...

why doesnt the UK do what the 2 other caribiean countries did. Bring it against the WTO. I believe theres still isnt settled...
 

Kyteland

Diamond Member
Dec 30, 2002
5,747
1
81
Originally posted by: ultimatebob
My hunch is that Harrah's and Trump had a bunch of lobbyists in Washington trying to push this into law. All of this online gaming is probably cutting into their casino profits.
Don't make me laugh.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
Originally posted by: Pastore
Originally posted by: Tom
Originally posted by: pulse8
Originally posted by: Tom
Originally posted by: pulse8
Originally posted by: Tom
Originally posted by: pulse8
It's in the best interest of a site like PartyGaming, that is publicly traded, to remain as honest as possible. Also, when it comes to poker, they don't have any reason to cheat anyone. It's players against players.


Yea right. Being publicly traded has absolutley nothing to do with being honest.

I trust Mars Candy company a far sight farther than 3/4 of publicly traded companies.

I didn't say they because they are publicly traded that they should be trusted. With online gambling, especially poker, there's so much competition that even if there is the slightest question of honesty with a site people will just choose to not use them.


Where are people going to get this information about which sites are trustworthy ?

On internet forums ?

LOL !!!1111 !!!!!

Where do people find out if anything is trustworthy on the internet? From other trusted users. Are you truly this dense?

Trusted users ? Trusted users of what ? Online gambling sites ?

Why do you continue to believe these users are inherently liars and stealers, or otherwise untrustworthy.

I don't believe that, and didn't say I did. It's irrelevant what I believe anyway, because the question isn't what I think, it's what you meant by "trusted users."