Can you be more moral without religion?

[Tab]

My mom somehow beileves that you are a much morale person with reiligion. I absolutely disagree. There are plenty of morale people with out reilgion and many more with it that a much less.

Discuss..

 

[her209]

Of course you can.

 

[kogase]

What is there to say really? It's not like any kind of substantial discussion can be had over this. You should just have a poll with 2 options: "Yes" and "No".

 

[raildogg]

Sure you can, Abraham Lincoln was a self confessed atheist and his deep faith in what is right kept this country together. Religion is not always right and it's certainly not always moral.

Mark Twain, a great man who I admire was a atheist. He said many things that would be perceived as anti-Christian today.

Thomas Paine who was a strong abolitionist and fought against slavery was a atheist. Yet he had a very strong moral base.

So again, religion and morality do not always go together. You can be just as compassionate as someone who is religious. I believe how a person is brought up is the key to how they will function as an adult.

One can study the bible night and day and still turn out to be a mass murderer. Thats why I would much rather have two gays raise a child than a violent or deranged single parent.

 

[judasmachine]

of course you can be moral w/o religion. the vast majority of non church goers are not out raping and murdering other people.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: her209
Of course you can.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: judasmachine
of course you can be moral w/o religion. the vast majority of non church goers are not out raping and murdering other people.

I would disagree. We've had a lot of issuses with nutcases. Look at the BTK killer or our president.

Now, why and how can you be moral than some who is catholic for example?Is it just because we find the beilefs in ourselves and from our own experinces?

 

[Genx87]

I think the basis for our modern morals have roots in christianity and religion in general. That being said just because you are religious does not make you more moral than somebody who isnt. Plenty of people are imoral in the name of their god or use their religion as a reason for being immoral.

 

[Aimster]

I have morals (yes that is hard to believe, ay)
Religion has never told me to do anything. All religion does is hold people back from life (uh-oh).

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: Genx87
I think the basis for our modern morals have roots in christianity and religion in general. That being said just because you are religious does not make you more moral than somebody who isnt. Plenty of people are imoral in the name of their god or use their religion as a reason for being immoral.

I agree completely. We owe much of the foundation of the civil society we have today to religious influences, but it is no longer necessary to be religious in order to be moral.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Genx87
I think the basis for our modern morals have roots in christianity and religion in general.

There is nothing to support that. Moral and ethical behavior make perfect sense from a sociological standpoint. It creates far less conflict and far more ease, comfort and general well being in a society than hostile, aggressive, predatory behavior.

Societies with completely isolated histories have been observed to have a large overlapping areas of what they "good" or "acceptable" behavior. Most of the Ten Commandments can be viewed as a set of rules to keep a microcosm from self destruction while running around the Sinai Desert. Think of them as based on the concept of Bad Vibes...

Don't kill or steal. Why? It causes Bad Vibes.

Don't hit on your buddy's SO. Why? It causes Bad Vibes.

Take care of your parents. Why? When you too young to do it, they took care of you. Later, it's your turn to return the favor. Anything else causes... (you guessed it) ... Bad Vibes.

Remember the sabbath. Why? Without rest, human beings burn out. They get stressed, mean and generally become assholes. What does it cause < all together, now > ... Bad Vibes. To make it simple and easy to comply, set one day for everyone to take the break, and no one gains any advantage over the other guy.

The same is true for the rest, except for one, which is the enforcer. When all you have is a small group, you have a lot of ground to cover just to survive, and you don't necessarily have enough manpower to enforce the other nine laws. So, when the unruly mob asks the leaders, "Why should we obey these rules?" the leaders reply, "GOD SAID SO!" and the uneducated masses say, "Oh! Yeah! Of course! Right!.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Genx87
I think the basis for our modern morals have roots in christianity and religion in general. That being said just because you are religious does not make you more moral than somebody who isnt. Plenty of people are imoral in the name of their god or use their religion as a reason for being immoral.

I agree completely. We owe much of the foundation of the civil society we have today to religious influences, but it is no longer necessary to be religious in order to be moral.

Our morals have roots in every major religion ever created. There really isn't anything unique that our goverment has done to make Christianity our offical reiligion.

 

[judasmachine]

Originally posted by: Tabb

Originally posted by: judasmachine
of course you can be moral w/o religion. the vast majority of non church goers are not out raping and murdering other people.

I would disagree. We've had a lot of issuses with nutcases. Look at the BTK killer or our president.

Now, why and how can you be moral than some who is catholic for example?Is it just because we find the beilefs in ourselves and from our own experinces?

a large amount of those who commit crimes, and atrocities, and the like are non-church goers and another large amount of them are church goers. you can be moral and not be a believer, and you can be immoral and a believer. it works both ways.

 

[syzygy]

it may have never have been 'necessary' to be religious to be moral. unless by 'necessary' you mean the force of sociocultural persuasion.

religion is a wealth of information about issues that are not unique to persons who simply prescribe to that body of faith. people who rely on reason will find
others who claim the same recourse to reason yet disagreement between them still rages. reason is not a panacea. reason is not a universal god either. many
people seem to treat 'reason' as a new worldwide faith that transcends culture and time.

reason is not a talisman that will ward off conflict and cure our tendencies to disagree regardless.

 

[Gaard]

Originally posted by: Tabb
My mom somehow beileves that you are a much morale person with reiligion. I absolutely disagree. There are plenty of morale people with out reilgion and many more with it that a much less.

Discuss..

Did your mom say why she feels this?

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Genx87
I think the basis for our modern morals have roots in christianity and religion in general. That being said just because you are religious does not make you more moral than somebody who isnt. Plenty of people are imoral in the name of their god or use their religion as a reason for being immoral.

I agree completely. We owe much of the foundation of the civil society we have today to religious influences, but it is no longer necessary to be religious in order to be moral.

It was NEVER necessary to be reiligious to be moral. It just seemed that way. It's a very simple way of reasoning things and goverment. It worked.

 

[judasmachine]

Originally posted by: Tabb

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Genx87
I think the basis for our modern morals have roots in christianity and religion in general. That being said just because you are religious does not make you more moral than somebody who isnt. Plenty of people are imoral in the name of their god or use their religion as a reason for being immoral.

I agree completely. We owe much of the foundation of the civil society we have today to religious influences, but it is no longer necessary to be religious in order to be moral.

Our morals have roots in every major religion ever created. There really isn't anything unique that our goverment has done to make Christianity our offical reiligion.

:thumbsup:

 

[MartyMcFly3]

Of course you can.

Now can you be religious without being moral?

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: Tabb

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Genx87
I think the basis for our modern morals have roots in christianity and religion in general. That being said just because you are religious does not make you more moral than somebody who isnt. Plenty of people are imoral in the name of their god or use their religion as a reason for being immoral.

I agree completely. We owe much of the foundation of the civil society we have today to religious influences, but it is no longer necessary to be religious in order to be moral.

Our morals have roots in every major religion ever created. There really isn't anything unique that our goverment has done to make Christianity our offical reiligion.

Eh? I said "religious influences" in general for exactly that reason, although it's ignorant to deny the fact that America was a very pious Christian nation from its inception and generally still is one today.

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: Tabb

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Genx87
I think the basis for our modern morals have roots in christianity and religion in general. That being said just because you are religious does not make you more moral than somebody who isnt. Plenty of people are imoral in the name of their god or use their religion as a reason for being immoral.

I agree completely. We owe much of the foundation of the civil society we have today to religious influences, but it is no longer necessary to be religious in order to be moral.

Our morals have roots in every major religion ever created. There really isn't anything unique that our goverment has done to make Christianity our offical reiligion.

Or, maybe our religion has roots in the morals we created long, long, long ago. We will never know.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Tabb

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Genx87
I think the basis for our modern morals have roots in christianity and religion in general. That being said just because you are religious does not make you more moral than somebody who isnt. Plenty of people are imoral in the name of their god or use their religion as a reason for being immoral.

I agree completely. We owe much of the foundation of the civil society we have today to religious influences, but it is no longer necessary to be religious in order to be moral.

Our morals have roots in every major religion ever created. There really isn't anything unique that our goverment has done to make Christianity our offical reiligion.

Eh? I said "religious influences" in general for exactly that reason, although it's ignorant to deny the fact that America was a very pious Christian nation from its inception and generally still is one today.

The people back then where very religious and did things that would have without a doubt broke "Seperation Between Church and State". This absolutely does not mean our goverment was reiligious or specifically took ideas from christianity.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: Gaard

Originally posted by: Tabb
My mom somehow beileves that you are a much morale person with reiligion. I absolutely disagree. There are plenty of morale people with out reilgion and many more with it that a much less.

Discuss..

Did your mom say why she feels this?

She sad something something simaller too...this

"It's because that's the way god intended things..."

The conversation didn't last long after that... Nor will she be talking to me ever again

 

[Cerb]

Anyone who believes that you must have religion to be moral should donate brain tissue, because someone else probably needs it.

 

[daveshel]

Religion often provides the template to inform morality, but it is not a necessary component of morality. The religious might argue that without religion, how would you know you were practicing morality, and this points out that various systems of ethics can differ on points of morality. Those brought up without religion might still have a good conscience on which to base their morality, but different cultures will make different value judgments that could cause differing moralities, and this is probably the basis of your mother's argument. Hard to counter, since there aren't too many alternative templates.

You could point out to her examples of religious folks leading amoral lives, such as the president or some well-known TV preachers, but that will likley be a short conversation.

 

[mhillary]

Yes you can.