Can you be a responsible parent and never teach morality?

[ixelion]

I don't think I can teach what I don't believe, and yet it seems that what counts as a good parent is one that teaches morality, values, codes of behavior etc.

It's not that I don't practice these "virtues", but I only do so to maintain a minimum level of participation in society.

To me it's like a religion, one that I have to participate in but don't believe in.

 

[lxskllr]

Religion != morality. Morality is obvious, and people that only practice it to avoid prosecution are flawed.

 

[FallenHero]

Sounds like you need help or you are way too full of teenage angst and need to grow up.

And to answer your question, yes, to be a good parent installing morals into your child is a must.

 

[sandorski]

Morality does not need to be Formally Taught. Children learn Morality from their Parents by emulating it.

 

[vi edit]

The "Golden Rule" really doesn't have to be about religion, beliefs, or anything along those lines. It's a simple rule that keeps society civilized.

I don't want to be killed so don't kill others.
I don't want to called bad names so don't do it to others.
I don't want to have my stuff stolen so don't do it to others.

It's selfish at it's most basic roots but so effective if everyone applied it. Sure you have a couple fruit loops that actually like some weird crap but that's not really the norm for the rest of us.

Don't turn it into anything more than it needs to be.

 

[spaceman]

go listen to moar meshuggah and figure it all out rager

 

[Sho'Nuff]

Depends on how you define morality. If you define it as simply teaching "right" from "wrong," I think it woul be impossible to raise a kid at all without "teaching" that concept to some degree. The only way I can think of to do that would be to raise the kid in isolation, and never comment or counsel him/her on the consequences or safety of his/her actions. Heck, you might have to let the kid grow up not "doing" anything.

Note that I am not referring simply to teaching the ethical aspects of "right" and "wrong," but the practical aspects of those concepts as well. That would lead to some very unusual circumstances. E.g., the kid attempts to stick his finger in a light socket, and his parent never tries to stop him. The kid gets shocked, and the parent never consoles him or explains to him why what he did was "wrong." But even in that instance, the parent is "teaching" the kid not to stick his finger in the light socket by inaction. In essence, letting inaction and negative reinforcement teach the lesson, rather than active prevention and positive reinforcement (e.g., congratulations for listening well).

 

[spaceman]

u need to give ur kids a slime coat sheen of morality
few who get ahead whalk that morality bs walk
u want ur kids to be successfull teach them to be ruthless little fucking monsters
teach them to lie
teach them to seek to take advantage of others
contrary to pop belief, you do NOT get what you give,u get what u take in this life least aways.
nice guys do finish last

 

[IGBT]

no morality means you'll get smothered in your sleep as soon as your little darlings get big and strong enough.

 

[theprodigalrebel]

I don't have kids and I renounced religion. When my mother asked me how I'd raise decent children, I told her something similar to what vi_edit said. A code, ethical behavior based largely on sensitivity to fellow man, not morally righteous behavior to please an omnipotent, omniscient overlord.

You teach your kids what it takes to survive in this world while still retaining human qualities: respect and concern for other people, animals and the environment. Like my dad used to say, if you can't be constructive, at least don't be destructive.

 

[Azraele]

I don't think you can be a responsible parent and not teach morality. I define morality as right from wrong.

OP, it sounds like you need to seek some help.

 

[AMDZen]

It depends on your philosophy. People are going to decide what is morally acceptable to them as a person when they become adults. Kids may get taught morals from the parents which they follow at that age, but then grow up and decide differently.

Weed for instance. All parents are going to try and teach their kids that its a bad thing and drugs are bad, mmmmkay. But once you become an adult you will figure that out for yourself. What is right and wrong is different for different people.

 

[darkxshade]

As a parent, you are irresponsible if you don't[try to teach/instill morals into your children]. That's not to say that children still can't learn on their own through their own social upbringing but that's another debate. Actually as much as I hate to admit it... having been in ATOT over the years, I've learned a great deal myself. You never stop learning between right and wrong, especially when you're stuck in gray areas.

 

[vi edit]

Weed for instance. All parents are going to try and teach their kids that its a bad thing and drugs are bad, mmmmkay. But once you become an adult you will figure that out for yourself. What is right and wrong is different for different people.

Some things aren't inheriently "right or wrong" they just have consequences for their use/actions. A responsible parent will educate you on those consequences should you choose to partake. Those consequences include physical damage to your body, legal issues from the state/feds, and most importanly the parental smackdown you'll give them if they are being stupid little shits about things.

 

[ixelion]

I don't have kids and I renounced religion. When my mother asked me how I'd raise decent children, I told her something similar to what vi_edit said. A code, ethical behavior based largely on sensitivity to fellow man, not morally righteous behavior to please an omnipotent, omniscient overlord.

You teach your kids what it takes to survive in this world while still retaining human qualities: respect and concern for other people, animals and the environment. Like my dad used to say, if you can't be constructive, at least don't be destructive.

Yes this is what I mean by morality i.e. the Golden Rule, I consider myself partly Kantian, humans are intrinsically valuable. But this is NOT what I mean by morality.

My problem is with teaching children to be "good workers", and "listen to authority", without these qualities children may grow up in opposition to society, may have difficulty finding jobs, building networks etc.

go listen to moar meshuggah and figure it all out rager

Which brings me to my second thought, teaching children that the most valuable thing is to be true to themselves, and sometimes that means ignoring the rational thought process that plagues the "moral" citizen.

 

[sandorski]

Some things aren't inheriently "right or wrong" they just have consequences for their use/actions. A responsible parent will educate you on those consequences should you choose to partake. Those consequences include physical damage to your body, legal issues from the state/feds, and most importanly the parental smackdown you'll give them if they are being stupid little shits about things.

I'll just echo my previous post, but with a different tack. It is impossible not to tech your Children Morality. They will adopt your Morality simply by emulating it. Immoral Parents = Immoral Children, Moral Parents = Moral Children.

 

[lxskllr]

Weed for instance. All parents are going to try and teach their kids that its a bad thing and drugs are bad, mmmmkay. But once you become an adult you will figure that out for yourself. What is right and wrong is different for different people.

Legality != morality either. Really, morality shouldn't need to be taught. I think everybody's born knowing right from wrong. What's more important is not to teach IMMORALITY. That teaching can override the inherent morality of a child.

 

[ixelion]

When I think about it you can really talk about two kinds of morality. One that derives from basic survival instinct, this would include the Golden Rule, this type of morality should be taught (although maybe it doesn't need to be, are we born with it?)

The second type derives from social values which exist solely to maintain whatever rules we have agreed upon to maintain a society (at it's roots this was intended to promote survival through cooperation - but some have used it to exploit others for their own gain). I don't believe in teaching children this type of morality.

But herein lies the problem good parents must enforce the second type of morality, which I don't believe

 

[AMDZen]

Some things aren't inheriently "right or wrong" they just have consequences for their use/actions. A responsible parent will educate you on those consequences should you choose to partake. Those consequences include physical damage to your body, legal issues from the state/feds, and most importanly the parental smackdown you'll give them if they are being stupid little shits about things.

I agree with that. I'm just saying that a kid might be fine even if they don't learn that from their parents. Or the kid may never learn proper morals for himself.

Things have changed too much IMO. Kids nowadays' aren't smacked around and thus, they don't learn. I'm a firm believer in smacking a kid around a bit, some kids don't need it maybe but most do. If my parents didn't beat the shit out of me a little when I was a kid, who knows how I would of turned out.

This might be a change of topic but it ties in for me. Parenting nowadays' fails from the get go because of PC governments and organizations that take rights from parents, and also take responsibility away from the parents.

So much of what we as a society have done in the last 20-30 years, and the laws we have passed make a lot of parents afraid to properly discipline, and also fail to take responsibility for their child's actions because of it.

 

[AMDZen]

Legality != morality either. Really, morality shouldn't need to be taught. I think everybody's born knowing right from wrong. What's more important is not to teach IMMORALITY. That teaching can override the inherent morality of a child.

Thats actually a really good point

 

[vi edit]

I'll just echo my previous post, but with a different tack. It is impossible not to tech your Children Morality. They will adopt your Morality simply by emulating it. Immoral Parents = Immoral Children, Moral Parents = Moral Children.

I don't agree. Some kids just are stupid, arrogant little shitheads with their own agenda. I've seen two siblings grow up in the same households with the same very well adjusted, friendly, and moral parents. One kid grows up to a perfect kid. The other starts running with the wrong group of friends and has a rap sheet a mile wrong for stupid little petty crimes by the age of 20.

After a certain point they do have their own mind and will not necessarily go along with what you show or tell them.

 

[sandorski]

I don't agree. Some kids just are stupid, arrogant little shitheads with their own agenda. I've seen two siblings grow up in the same households with the same very well adjusted, friendly, and moral parents. One kid grows up to a perfect kid. The other starts running with the wrong group of friends and has a rap sheet a mile wrong for stupid little petty crimes by the age of 20.

After a certain point they do have their own mind and will not necessarily go along with what you show or tell them.

Ya, I suppose. Not much a Parent could do about that. Teaching that kid would have no affect.

 

[lxskllr]

I don't agree. Some kids just are stupid, arrogant little shitheads with their own agenda. I've seen two siblings grow up in the same households with the same very well adjusted, friendly, and moral parents. One kid grows up to a perfect kid. The other starts running with the wrong group of friends and has a rap sheet a mile wrong for stupid little petty crimes by the age of 20.

After a certain point they do have their own mind and will not necessarily go along with what you show or tell them.

Yea, but unless they're socio/psychopaths they know better. Knowing morality, and practicing morality are different things. As long as morality/immorality don't get purposely confused by a teacher(parent), the child will know what is moral. Whether they practice that is a whole other matter.

 

[darkxshade]

I don't agree. Some kids just are stupid, arrogant little shitheads with their own agenda. I've seen two siblings grow up in the same households with the same very well adjusted, friendly, and moral parents. One kid grows up to a perfect kid. The other starts running with the wrong group of friends and has a rap sheet a mile wrong for stupid little petty crimes by the age of 20.

After a certain point they do have their own mind and will not necessarily go along with what you show or tell them.

That sort of begs the question:

Can you be a responsible parent and not be able to teach morality[seeing as some of it is inherent]? Parenting is always brought up when a child[at whatever age] does wrong so how do you respond to that? Is it so black and white that if they do something bad, you failed as a parent? I think it's a bit shortsighted at times but it's always the first issue to be brought up.

 

[AMDZen]

I don't agree. Some kids just are stupid, arrogant little shitheads with their own agenda. I've seen two siblings grow up in the same households with the same very well adjusted, friendly, and moral parents. One kid grows up to a perfect kid. The other starts running with the wrong group of friends and has a rap sheet a mile wrong for stupid little petty crimes by the age of 20.

After a certain point they do have their own mind and will not necessarily go along with what you show or tell them.

Probably because child A's personality leant itself to learning in that manner. Where as child B's personality doesn't. Child B probably needed to be smacked around when he was younger, and the parents were probably the common "Oh I don't hit my kids" type parents that are now all too common.

You can't parent all of your children the same way, all the time. Some need to be taught differently.