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Can we just blame it all on Carter?

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
29,773
11
81
If Carter had not gutted the US Intelligence community (CIA) and ditched a lot of our spies, we would have never had a 9/11 or even a war in Iraq as we would have had 100 real, professional "Curveballs" there working for us. Same in Iran.

Spies take decades to plant and cultivate and Carter blew it all away.

 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Administrator
Oct 9, 1999
35,052
29
86
BULLSHIT! As long as you're reaching for the absurd, let's blame it on George Washington because he was a hemp farmer. :roll:
 

Fern

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Can we just blame it all on Carter?
Sure.

Then when the problems come to fruition during a Repub admin, people like Harvey go ballistic at the response/solution taken.

It's a big cycle. Polititions can't/don't fix real problems, just the one's created by other polititions.

Fern
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
73,355
25,085
136
We could blame it all on Carter if we were totally, mind bogglingly ignorant of the history of US relations in the middle east I guess.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
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And which party was the one that did the most abuse of the CIA, using it for all kinds of rogue operations, and other problems?

Remember who used the recently created CIA for its first 'covert op' to overthrow the elected leader of Iran and install the Shah as dictator with a US-supplied thug force?

Which party do you think it was who ordered the CIA to create cover for Watergate to prevent its exposure?

Which party was abusing the FBI and CIA for purposes against political enemies immediately preceding the Chunrch hearings around 1975 just before Carter took office?

As usual, it's the republicans - while admittedly the democrats are not entirely clean on the issue, either, but a lot less tainted.

"[I want to] splinter the CIA in a thousand pieces and scatter it to the wind."
- President Kennedy
The agency needed cleaning, badly.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
2
0
Of course we should blame it all on Carter, we certainly would not want to blame GWB would we? Putting blame where blame belong requires certain a certain set of disturbing
mental processes Psychologists broadly label under the heading of cognitive dissonance. And while cognitive dissonance and thinking in general may be a normal human adaptive response, the American people have been able to dispense with useless thinking for some years now, and the mere prospect of having to confront any doubts about the deciders decisions not being 100% is a mental torment that is best avoided. And if we can just push the blame somewhere else, any where else, its half the battle. The other half of the battle is making sure we can't do anything about it which then requires no thinking or action.

In terms of Carter, he is still alive and do we really want to murder a man with a nobel peace prize? Or vilify the father of our country?

I humbly suggest Columbus. Who took a chance and look at the mess we are all in now. And blaming Columbus gives us license to pollute the Columbia river and burn down the District of Columbia.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
18,972
11,799
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We could blame it all on Carter if we were totally, mind bogglingly ignorant of the history of US relations in the middle east I guess.

Quite so.

Damn that Carter admin for exposing Brewster and Jennings for the front company it was!
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
11,937
1,271
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The blame lays squarely upon GWB. First, for blissfully ignoring the intelligence he had before 9/11, secondly for leaving the job in Afganistan half done (leaving 6,000 troops to peacekeep while neglecting the rebuilding so the Taliban has been able to surge back) and thirdly for his ego-war/adventure in Iraq instead of really going after terrorism. Frankly GWB has done an almost perfect job of screwing the pooch all by himself, no need to spread the blame.

Besides, didn't you get the memo. When in doubt, blame it on Clinton.

It's ironic GWB likens himself to Harry Truman so often, but conveniently neglects "the buck stops here" part.
 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
0
Originally posted by: eskimospy
We could blame it all on Carter if we were totally, mind bogglingly ignorant of the history of US relations in the middle east I guess.
You are right. We can only blame Carter for laying the foundation.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 3, 1979: President Carter Approves Covert Aid to Anti-Soviet Forces in Afghanistan President Carter authorizes covert aid for opponents of the Communist government in Afghanistan. Zbigniew Brzezinski, Carter?s National Security Adviser, will state in 1998, ?According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the mujaheddin began? after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan? But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise: Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.? We didn?t push the Russians to intervene, but we knowingly increased the probability that they would.? [Le Nouvel Observateur (Paris), 1/15/1998] After Brzezinski?s confession, other US officials who denied US involvement prior to the Soviet invasion will change their story as well. For instance, Charles Cogan, who is head of the CIA covert aid program to Afghanistan at this time, will call Carter?s approval on this day a ?very modest beginning to US involvement.? [Cooley, 2002, pp. 10] In fact, even this is not correct because the CIA had been aiding the rebels since at least the year before (see 1978 and 1973-1979). The Soviets invade Afghanistan by the end of 1979 (see December 8, 1979).
Entity Tags: Zbigniew Brzezinski, James Earl "Jimmy" Carter, Jr., Charles Cogan
Timeline Tags: Western Support for Islamic Militancy, Complete 911 Timeline
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
11
76
Originally posted by: Harvey
BULLSHIT! As long as you're reaching for the absurd, let's blame it on George Washington because he was a hemp farmer. :roll:
Exactly. Especially when we know it's all the fault of the MURDERER in Chief! Him and his cabal of LIES have lead us down a path of DEATH and THIEVERY in this ILLEGAL war!
 

teclis1023

Golden Member
Jan 19, 2007
1,452
0
71
Originally posted by: Nebor
Originally posted by: Harvey
BULLSHIT! As long as you're reaching for the absurd, let's blame it on George Washington because he was a hemp farmer. :roll:
Exactly. Especially when we know it's all the fault of the MURDERER in Chief! Him and his cabal of LIES have lead us down a path of DEATH and THIEVERY in this ILLEGAL war!
lol. jerk.
 

ranmaniac

Golden Member
May 14, 2001
1,939
0
76
Originally posted by: woodie1
And he's responsible for the problems we have with Iran.
The problems with Iran started in the 1950's when the CIA/MI6 overthrew the democratically elected Mohammed Mossedegh and installed the Shah. Not to mention the creation of SAVAK, the secret police that served under the Shah that routinely tortured and murdered opponents of the Shah.



 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
0
Originally posted by: Thump553
The blame lays squarely upon GWB. First, for blissfully ignoring the intelligence he had before 9/11, secondly for leaving the job in Afganistan half done (leaving 6,000 troops to peacekeep while neglecting the rebuilding so the Taliban has been able to surge back) and thirdly for his ego-war/adventure in Iraq instead of really going after terrorism. Frankly GWB has done an almost perfect job of screwing the pooch all by himself, no need to spread the blame.

Besides, didn't you get the memo. When in doubt, blame it on Clinton.

It's ironic GWB likens himself to Harry Truman so often, but conveniently neglects "the buck stops here" part.
If he did that then someone would blame it back to Reagan/Rumsfield so he's just jumpingback to Carter. Problem solved, those stupid D's can't do anything right.

My Dad always used to tell me that if the dog hadn't stopped to take a crap he would have caught the rabbit.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,034
5,119
126
CIA is the one that created and trained Al Qaeda (or its precursors) under Reagan to fight USSR in Afghanistan.
If Carter really had gutted the CIA, maybe we wouldn't have had 9/11.
 

shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
1
0
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
If Carter had not gutted the US Intelligence community (CIA) and ditched a lot of our spies, we would have never had a 9/11 or even a war in Iraq as we would have had 100 real, professional "Curveballs" there working for us. Same in Iran.

Spies take decades to plant and cultivate and Carter blew it all away.
I think Nixon being pardoned was a bigger crime.. it showed the U.S. that we don't even hold our own Presidents accountable.. it has paved the way for more and more crooks.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
57,513
5,820
126
I'm sure Bill Clinton would be glad to have something blamed on Jimmy Carter for a change...I suspect he's getting tired of the huge load of blame the Repubs have heaped on him for EVERYTHING wrong in the world...:roll:
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
18,972
11,799
136
We can blame it all on anyone, as long as they're democrat.

LOL, exactly. Compromised intel is only a concern providing it was compromised by a Dem. Current day offenses towards our intel efforts are not worthy of scorn (or even discussion at times!) due to the lack of a capital D after the names of those involved.

And this is usually from the same crowd who justs yells "BDS!" when their knees jerk to boot. Too funny....:laugh:
 

cliftonite

Diamond Member
Jul 15, 2001
6,874
44
91
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
If Carter had not gutted the US Intelligence community (CIA) and ditched a lot of our spies, we would have never had a 9/11 or even a war in Iraq as we would have had 100 real, professional "Curveballs" there working for us. Same in Iran.

Spies take decades to plant and cultivate and Carter blew it all away.

Yes because Carter is the idiot who used questionable intelligence to start a ridiculous war that will waste trillions and cost thousands their lives.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Lets not forget that Carter knew the US economy was in dire straights and more or less didn't make waves or interfere with Volcker's policy of tough love (without the love) of getting inflation in check, all because he knew that if they didn't, things would suck long-term.

Unlike the current duo of spend and inflate buddies of Bush and Bernanke who are leading the march of ruin.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
101,624
5,919
126
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Unlike the current duo of spend and inflate buddies of Bush and Bernanke who are leading the march of ruin.
so, would you prefer deflation?

and, iirc, the high interest rates and the slaying of inflation under volcker happened during reagan's first term. (inflation went from it's 1981 peak of 13+% to the relatively low amounts we've seen over the last 25 years by 1983)
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Unlike the current duo of spend and inflate buddies of Bush and Bernanke who are leading the march of ruin.
so, would you prefer deflation?

and, iirc, the high interest rates and the slaying of inflation under volcker happened during reagan's first term. (inflation went from it's 1981 peak of 13+% to the relatively low amounts we've seen over the last 25 years by 1983)

When would there have been deflation? Not to mention the over-reaction to any spectre of deflation was foolish.

The high rates were jacked up during Carter's admin and are what lost him the election. The effects were seen later, since it takes a while for liquidity contraction to work through the system. It is widely known in the financial and economics circles that Carter refused to take on Volcker's bearish outlook since he knew it would be good for the economy in the long-term, Volcker was specifically chosen for this role. He kept it despite being a D chairman through Reagan's term because Reagan knew that he was the man who saved the US economy for the long-term.

You need to get a bit caught up in your history.
 

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