Can this CPU be upgraded?

[VirtualLarry]

Maybe related to the fact that the 1600 came with a 95W copper-cored heatsink, whereas the 3600 comes with a half-sized all Aluminum heatsink, that barely works on that chip? I question putting a 65W TDP heatsink on a CPU that draws 70-80W under full AVX2 load.

 

[tinpanalley]

I'm getting all my parts tomorrow in the mail, this may be an extremely ignorant question but with a new CPU and RAM and motherboard coming, is it as simple as plug and play or is there some kind of setup I need to do in my new BIOS for the RAM, the CPU, etc? And also with my Windows 10 install, if the system is going to go online (did I ask this already?), should the Windows 10 activate itself or will I need to pull my Windows 10 product key?

 

[DrMrLordX]

It should be plug n' play except that you will probably WANT to change a few settings in the UEFI to get better temps/boost behavior out of your chip. It should be really easy to set up though.

As for Win10, I've been on preview builds for so long that I can't authoritatively answer your question. Your license should be tied to your motherboard, and I know my preview "license" is, but I've updated it through the activation tool twice without a hiccup (moving from an A88x-Pro to an x370 Taichi and then to an x570 Aorus Master). So it will probably ask you something like, "Hey what was the desktop name of your previous activation?" and give you a list. Then you pick the right one and it updates. It'll be some goofy name like DESKTOP-XXXXXXXX where the Xs are random capital letters.

 

[tinpanalley]

Ok, I don't overclock, the whole concept scares me and confuses me. If I want a faster CPU why not just buy the speed I want and if I can't afford that then I remain happy with the one in my budget. Anyway, to each his/her own I guess.

It should be plug n' play except that you will probably WANT to change a few settings in the UEFI to get better temps/boost behavior out of your chip. It should be really easy to set up though.

For example I don't know what that process is. Is that overclock related?

 

[Guru]

You need to save up and buy a more recent computer. Something like a B450 board, Ryzen 3400G and 16GB ddr4 2900mhz will set you back around $270

 

[tinpanalley]

You need to save up and buy a more recent computer. Something like a B450 board, Ryzen 3400G and 16GB ddr4 2900mhz will set you back around $270

This is a long conversation that has already been through several recommendations. But thanks anyway.

 

[DrMrLordX]

For example I don't know what that process is. Is that overclock related?

No.

LLC is about managing voltage droop, or vdroop. Let's say you are trying to give your old-school CPU (one without boost and no/disabled power-saving features) 1.2v vcore. So you load up a program like Prime95 to stress test it, and you notice that CPU-z is reporting only 1.15v going to the CPU during the stress test. During a different workload, maybe the voltage is 1.18v . While it is idle, it is 1.2v vcore. What's happening? That's called vdroop. Lots of us enthusiasts learned about vdroop when overclocking . . . but it affects all CPUs whether or not you are overclocking. Your motherboard has a power setting called Load Line Calibration (LLC) that can help mitigate vdroop by feeding extra voltage to the CPU during load. Modern motherboards have pretty good LLC implementations, even if the labeling is goofy. High LLC settings give a lot of extra voltage during heavy workloads. Low LLC settings allow a lot of vdroop. Most motherboards have a default setting that sits somewhere on the lower end of the LLC scale, though default (or "auto") LLC behavior can get a little weird sometimes depending on the OEM. It's actually a really good idea for anyone to know what your motherboard is doing, since some of them are designed to feed excess voltage during default operation just to win media reviews! You may not like or want that behavior.

It used to be that changing LLC settings was only needed when pushing your CPU to its limits - overclocking. Matisse is so aggressive with its boost algorithm that LLC now affects stock behavior of a CPU. I have found that, at stock, Matisse chips (like your R5 3600) feed a little bit too much voltage for the workload, just to be on the safe side. So that produces some extra (unnecessary) heat, which makes the boost algorithm dial clockspeed back a bit to protect the chip. So if you use the lowest LLC setting possible, vdroop kicks in without the boost algorithm really being able to track the phenomenon, so it winds up feeding a little bit less voltage which causes chip temperature to go down. That lets clockspeeds climb a little. It also reduces power usage. If the motherboard OEMs had set up their boards to default to the lowest possible LLC setting, things would work a lot better for Matisse users.

You can further exaggerate the effect by using a negative voltage offset. But if you do that too much, you may reduce performance.

Instead of overclocking, you would be undervolting which is a process enthusiasts have used for years to try and squeeze more efficiency out of their chips. You generally can't damage CPUs by giving them too little voltage. All you do is extend their longevity by making them run at lower temperatures and lower power levels. As an added bonus, Matisse's weird behavior lets it produce better performance if you undervolt it a little. You just have to be sneaky while doing it in default mode so that the boost algorithm can't detect any changes in the way voltage is being supplied to the CPU - hence the need to meddle with LLC settings and voltage offsets.

All you need to do is learn enough about your motherboard's UEFI (often called a BIOS) to find the LLC settings and change them to the lowest possible value. You can also apply a voltage offset if you like. All the x570 boards should support such settings, and it would take all of 5 minutes to make the necessary changes.

 

[Arkaign]

Maybe related to the fact that the 1600 came with a 95W copper-cored heatsink, whereas the 3600 comes with a half-sized all Aluminum heatsink, that barely works on that chip? I question putting a 65W TDP heatsink on a CPU that draws 70-80W under full AVX2 load.

Haha you've found one of my pet peeves. Intel did the same thing with a few SKUs as well, though it's been a while so I can't remember which.

I long ago basically gave up on pack in HSFs for my personal stuff though. It's either CM212+ for lower end, or Noctua 14 or 15s for the OC. Water is a hassle IMHO, Linus did a great job showing Noctua air beating AIOs in results that shocked even themselves lol. They're just really big, but you don't need radiators, tubing, or risk leaks/degradation/contamination.

But the decline in AMD's packin HSFs is annoying for building for others. I shudder at the memory of the joke coolers they used to pack in with Athlon X2/X3/X4s. Often barely adequate for sitting at the desktop idling, then pouring out heat when on load. The fans on those failed on me like crazy too.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I shudder at the memory of the joke coolers they used to pack in with Athlon X2/X3/X4s.

Yeah, those were really "nasty cheap-o". I've still got a few of them.

 

[tinpanalley]

-- deleted. Starting a thread