Can they really force me to pay more after Ive signed?

[EliteRetard]

Sound Ford in Renton Washington.
They are an unethical evil bunch of bastards. Possibly doing things illegally.

So after looking around for a new car finally decide on a ford focus...had a nice ranger to trade in. XLT 4L V6, new oversized 10 ply tires, a slight lift, intake and exahust mods, linex bed liner, tow package, extended bed and cab with the back seats etc. I wanted 10,5 an absolutely reasonable ammount. But I took 9,3 after a shit load of haggling...mostly because I got the price of the car low enough before I brought up the trade...and it was a higher offer than I had gotten so far.

I thought I did OK...I was still pissed about the price of the truck but all total I thought I did good...I even managed to get them into .75% lower interest than any other offer I found so I thought it evened out.

I went through got the papers signed and I thought I looked through everything fairly close...but all the mumbo jumbo must have me confused, because now they are demanding I pay another 1000$ over what I agreed to. They are saying that I gave them the right to change the price of the trade in (aparently it was just an estimate) and now they demand the extra money or they are going to send it to collections (I absolutely cant survive a single hit on my credit). I pretty much told them to shut the fuck up and Ill return the damn car...I want my truck back. They say that its a no go and that they are going to rewrite all the contracts and I have to go and sign them all again.

Is this legal? Im am rather pissed off and havnt had time to go back through the paperwork (Ive had a really fucking shitty day, and got snowed in at work for an extra 5 hours) so I thought Id ask somebody. I dont even know where to ask or what to look up but figured somebody on these active forums might have an idea.

This is such a fucking scam...8 thousand is absolutely fucking insane for that truck. The V6 alone with no mods or extra packages or anything is worth 8 grand in fair condition and this thing is in great shape (I checked KBB, NADA, and a few car sites before I went shopping, the AVERAGE TRADE IN VALUE WAS 10,700$ for this thing)...even included neoprene seat covers belt covers steering wheel and floor mats that have been on it since I got it...everything underneath looks like it just came from the factory. No damage to the body paint in great shape all the lights worked I even had the thing washed and waxed and there was 1500$ in brand new tires on it (like 3000 miles on the tires) including the full sized spare.

They all insisted that extra features dont add to the value of trade ins and dont give them a better resale price (WHAT THE FUCK ARE THEY SMOKING?!) Despite the fact that I could point out bare bones base model 4 bangers on their own fucking lots for 12 grand. I KNOW this truck is worth 14-16K...thats what anything remotely similar was going for within 100 miles, and Ive even seen one as high as 20K!

Can I take my truck back and cancel this fucked up sale? Do I need to go to court?

 

[thescreensavers]

Mods usually devalue a car. But good luck with this all

 

[IcePickFreak]

Wait, so you already signed and now they want you to resign with their "adjustment"? I'd definitely tell em to fuck off if that's the case.

You really need to look at what you did sign first before you do anything else.

 

[EliteRetard]

Why the hell would mods devalue a car? Its not like some hillbilly coat hanger antenna trick. This thing had a high end intake and exahust added to improve efficiency giving it more power and fuel economy. High end spray in bed liners protect the bed of the truck and improve the look as well. The slight lift was to better fit the very nice oversized 10 ply tires. With all the proper adjustments to the computers/gauges and such. This aint no ghetto ass redneck peice of shit jacked up truck. These mods were done for towing purposes and should add value to the truck. Im well aware I wont get the same value they cost, but how could they devalue a car?

If features detract value then why the fuck are new cars expensive? Why do dealers charge extra for them on used models?

And yes, they are saying that if I dont come down and pay them 1000$ cash they will send it to collections (which would totally fuck me over)...the only other option is for me to sign new contracts with the 1000$ added to the loan. It sounds like a huge ass scam to me.

Is there no protection at all for people? I cant demand my vehicle back? After all their bitching about how long and hard it is to sell a truck and that it takes 90 days to go through their checkout procedures...I know it doesnt take that long, but I still doubt they sold it yet.

Right now if I go down there, I seriously will methodically hunt down and kill every last person on their lot and walk out with a smile on my face. Im trying to come up with a slightly more legal option first.

Ill try to go through everything again in the morning, but if I missed it the first time...well I still dont know what I should do. Even if it ended up as my mistake...you cant tell me there are no possible corrections. If the dealer accidently printed out the price missing a zero you can be damn sure they wouldnt give you a new car for $2K theyd make sure it got fixed for the full 20 grand.

 

[Throckmorton]

I don't understand. Are you saying you signed the documents for the amount you agreed to, but now they want to charge you an extra $1000 and make you sign new documents? How can they use collections if you never agreed to the $1000?

 

[DivideBYZero]

Check all the clauses in all of the paper you have signed. Take an hour or two to read them, then if there is nothing in there regarding this tell them to get bent and you want the originally agreed amount. Failing that, cancel the deal under breach of contract and walk away.

<-- Not a lawyer, not even in the US, so YMMV.

 

[Farang]

Agree with what everyone else said, you need to read your contract carefully.

It seems they are full of shit.

BUT, string them along. Get copies of these new contracts they want you to sign. DO NOT SIGN THEM. Just get a hold of the text they want you to sign. Read this over carefully as well.

An initial reaction might be just to tell them to fuck off, but by getting the new contracts you get a better idea of what their angle is in this scam.

Obviously if someone needs new contracts and new signatures, they wish to go beyond the existing contracts and signatures. This makes me think, just from the general info you provided, that theyare full of it.

I'm not a lawyer etc etc

 

[SearchMaster]

Also, do you have a local consumer advocate on TV or radio? For example, Clark Howard (ClarkHoward.com) is nationally syndicated, you might try calling his show.

This is a common dealer scam unfortunately, and you need to take action ASAP. The problem is the longer you wait, they'll auction off your truck then you'll REALLY be screwed.

 

[Vette73]

Yep...

Read Contract
Don't sign anything else
See if there is a news station that is bored, call them and see if they will do a story
And yes the majority of the time Mods will HURT the value of a car.

 

[DivideBYZero]

FYI:

http://www.whatprice.co.uk/cars/consumer-rights-USA.html

Consumer Rights When Buying a Car

Car Consumer rights that are meant to protect the customer vary from state to state so it's wise to check them out before making a purchase. In California the state law allows the buyer to return a car within two days no questions asked. The laws differ depending on who and where you buy your car from. There are more laws enforcing consumer rights when buying a car from a dealer then from a private party. Since a car is such an expensive object; it pays to take every precaution possible. By law the dealer has to sell you a car that is as good as the description he gives, it should be trustworthy on the road and it should be the quality that you pay for. By law the dealer cannot give the buyer misleading or untrue information that would affect the desire of the buyer to purchase the car in the dealer's favor. One example might be that the company that he works for can approve a loan on a car when it cannot. If however you do buy a car that has a problem from a dealer give the dealer a chance to fix it. Most dealers have a no return policy if you bought it, it's yours. There are a few that will accept a return, inquire before you buy is the best policy, no matter what your consumer rights when buying a car are the law can only protect you so far. So to make sure the buyer does not suffer buyer's remorse it is best to give the purchase of a vehicle some thought as to which make and model is the best buy before it is purchased
When buying a car research everything about the brand and model, find out in advance, does that classy looking car that is a certain model and year have really bad electrical problems consistently? When a decision is reached and you are going to purchase it from a dealership then select a dealership based on reputation. Buying from a dealership is more expensive than a private party but usually carries some sort of even short term guarantee to fall back on and the legal resources are better to protect your consumers rights when buying a car and the laws are strict concerning what a dealer has to inspect before the car can be sold and for this reason a lot of trade ins are junked. Even from a dealership test drive the car before you take it home. However, it cannot be denied that some people have gotten a really good buy from a private party if they know what they are doing. If you do decide to buy from a private individual to protect your consumer rights ask to have the car checked over at a reliable garage at your expense, it's well worth the money to see how much if anything is wrong with it.
Read the newspapers to find what used cars are going for, again the price range will vary greatly from state to state. The buyer should take the overall condition of the car into consideration because cars of the same year and make were given different levels of care and driven differently. Used cars from a rental service are usually a good buy and may still carry a factory warranty.
Consumer Rights After the Sales Agreement

Once you sign a sales agreement the sale is binding, the dealer cannot call the buyer at a later date and try to add more charges or tell the buyer that a mistake has been made, the mistake is his this time and he can be sued for trying this shady practice. The buyer can ask the dealer to show proof of what was paid for the car. If the dealer refuses question his motives. If the buyer is buying a used car the dealer does not have to tell the buyer if the car was ever in an accident but if the dealer is asked by the buyer he must give the right information or be liable. The buyer should protect his consumers rights when buying a car and the vin number ought to be researched using Car Fax, if it has been found that the dealer has said anything misleading do not buy from him. If the car has been in an accident it could affect the alignment and cause undo ware on the tread of the tires if nothing else. If a new car has been damaged in any way the dealer has to tell the buyer only if the damage cost more than five hundred dollars to fix.
The Lemon Law was made to protect the consumers rights when buying a car and applies to more than major problems like the motor. Electric sliding doors, rattles, lights that flicker could all be issues that apply to the Lemon Law as long as the car has been back to the dealership three times to be fixed for the same problem or the same part. For this reason save all of your invoices. If it happens to be a paint problem the manufacture must rectify it the first time or the buyer can file a claim. Used cars are not covered under the Lemon Law normally but the states of Massachusetts and New Jersey are exceptions. If your car has a number of malfunctions and repairs a claim can be filed under a law called the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act. If a new car is in the repair shop for thirty days the first year in most states for any problems and it does not have to be the same problems a Lemon Law claim can be made. In New Jersey its twenty days and in the state of Massachusetts the Lemon Law goes into effect if the car has been in the shop fifteen days the first year. These do not have to be consecutive days and this includes waiting for parts. Although the law does try and protect the consumers rights when buying a car its also up to the car buyer to make some effort.

 

[mvbighead]

Don't... sign... shit. The only reason they want you to sign the new document is to bypass the current one. You've entered a contract with them, and them with you. Can't see how it'd be legal. And get the news all over their ass... news stations love stories like this.

EDIT: As to the mods, shouldn't matter one iota. They agreed on an amount, and you agreed. Done deal, IMO. Sleazy as some car salesmen are, that place must have the elite of the elite sleaze-balls.

 

[LTC8K6]

It's legal if the trade in value is "estimated" on the paperwork, and I'll bet it is.

How long has it been since you signed? They probably waited long enough to spring that estimated clause on you so you can't just change your mind.

 

[mvbighead]

It's legal if the trade in value is "estimated" on the paperwork, and I'll bet it is.

How long has it been since you signed? They probably waited long enough to spring that estimated clause on you so you can't just change your mind.

Sounds like a crock of shit to me, even if estimated is on the paperwork. Signing a contract, IMO, means that the estimate becomes an actual. All the haggling bull shit is to come to an agreement on the final agreed upon value of the vehicle(s). The op agreed (though was reluctant as it was less than he wanted), and signed for that amount. Changing after the fact sounds like a gigantic scam.

I can understand signing an estimate with a contractor, and the supplies being more expensive than anticipated... but not when you have two tangible assets that can be valued at the time of sale, if he fucks up his estimation... shouldn't be the customer's problem once the "contract" has been signed.

 

[HarryLui]

Don't trade in EVER, always sell it on your own.

Read what you sign, mention a lawyer in the next phone call, and don't sign any new docs.

 

[LTC8K6]

Sounds like a crock of shit to me, even if estimated is on the paperwork. Signing a contract, IMO, means that the estimate becomes an actual. All the haggling bull shit is to come to an agreement on the final agreed upon value of the vehicle(s). The op agreed (though was reluctant as it was less than he wanted), and signed for that amount. Changing after the fact sounds like a gigantic scam.

I can understand signing an estimate with a contractor, and the supplies being more expensive than anticipated... but not when you have two tangible assets that can be valued at the time of sale, if he fucks up his estimation... shouldn't be the customer's problem once the "contract" has been signed.

We sign contracts all the time that change later. First one that pops into my head is the shipping charges. We often sell an item under contract with estimated shipping charges tacked on. Later, if the charges were more than the estimate, we send another bill, if they were less, we send a check. If we haven't sent the invoice out yet, then we adjust it up or down for the actual shipping charges.

 

[mvbighead]

Shipping is one thing, but I have never seen a car deal go the way the OP described. There are numerous tools available to the average joe to determine the worth of your vehicle. kbb.com is just 1 of many of those tools. I can only imagine what the dealer has access to. To pull a whoopsy on a sale with a written, agreed upon contract with values listed is absolutely mind boggling.

Personally, I would want to ask the dealer how they are justifying the change in value. Especially if KBB and other sources suggest that the OP should get upwards of 10k for the vehicle. I have never heard of a trade in value being estimated. Their job is buying and selling cars. There is no estimation to it. You haggle back and forth on the number until both parties are content with the final number. You don't do all of that just to have them come back later and negate the agreed upon trade in value. If they messed up in their estimation, it certainly isn't the op's problem, and likely the reason why they want him to sign a "new" contract.

 

[mvbighead]

Don't trade in EVER, always sell it on your own.

Read what you sign, mention a lawyer in the next phone call, and don't sign any new docs.

Just did this with my wife's vehicle. I would most definitely like to do this in the future with all of my vehicles. Beats getting screwed by a dealer, and you kind of feel good giving someone else a decent deal while getting more coin than you would from the dealer. Win/win in my book. Just have to worry about ensuring that the checks clear so you don't get robbed in the process... only pitfall to it really.

 

[LTC8K6]

Shipping is one thing, but I have never seen a car deal go the way the OP described. There are numerous tools available to the average joe to determine the worth of your vehicle. kbb.com is just 1 of many of those tools. I can only imagine what the dealer has access to. To pull a whoopsy on a sale with a written, agreed upon contract with values listed is absolutely mind boggling.

Personally, I would want to ask the dealer how they are justifying the change in value. Especially if KBB and other sources suggest that the OP should get upwards of 10k for the vehicle. I have never heard of a trade in value being estimated. Their job is buying and selling cars. There is no estimation to it. You haggle back and forth on the number until both parties are content with the final number. You don't do all of that just to have them come back later and negate the agreed upon trade in value. If they messed up in their estimation, it certainly isn't the op's problem, and likely the reason why they want him to sign a "new" contract.

I guess they will have estimated the value because of the mods to the vehicle, or that's what they will claim anyway.

It's certainly possible that they are just trying to bully a grand out of him, in which case he can safely ignore them.

I wouldn't ignore them, though.

I would bet that there is something in the contract that reflects the dealer's claim about the trade in.

Whether it's really legit or not, I guess we actually can't say without more info.

 

[exar333]

Just did this with my wife's vehicle. I would most definitely like to do this in the future with all of my vehicles. Beats getting screwed by a dealer, and you kind of feel good giving someone else a decent deal while getting more coin than you would from the dealer. Win/win in my book. Just have to worry about ensuring that the checks clear so you don't get robbed in the process... only pitfall to it really.

I think it really depends on the dealer. If I can get close to a private-party price from a dealer (~5% or so) its definitely worth the hassle to me, assuming the car value isn't really high. Also, some dealerships don't have a lot of "wiggle room" to price much below invoice, and you can often negotiate a substantially better trade-in value to make up for it. This happened to me when I got my Z. I got the car for invoice, but was able to negotiate my trade-in at 2k more than they initially offered for it. At that price, I got what I could have from a private party, and they absolutely would not budge below invoice on the car I was purchasing. Win-win.

 

[mvbighead]

I guess they will have estimated the value because of the mods to the vehicle, or that's what they will claim anyway.

It's certainly possible that they are just trying to bully a grand out of him, in which case he can safely ignore them.

I wouldn't ignore them, though.

I would bet that there is something in the contract that reflects the dealer's claim about the trade in.

Whether it's really legit or not, I guess we actually can't say without more info.

Yeah, ignoring them would be a terrible idea. I agree with the guy that said something about mentioning getting a lawyer involved to the dealership. Perhaps even talking to one for advice.

Also this definitely seems like it could be a news worthy type of story. Here in Omaha one of our stations does a 6 "On Your Side Investigation" where they investigate retailers/etc. and their mishandling of customers. This sounds exactly like their type of story.

I just can't imagine how pissed I'd be of the dealership I used when I traded in my car would've pulled that stunt. I dealt with the same pre-deal workings as the OP, the haggling bull-shit that just about drove me to leave (which it should have), but if they'd have come up with something like that after the fact I'd be one pissed off individual, and likely would waste all the time in the world ensuring that they didn't pull this shit with me (and hopefully anyone else) again.

 

[Greenman]

A dealer pulled off similar crap on me some years back. DO NOT SIGN A NEW CONTRACT. That contract is your only protection, stand on it. If they insist on a new one, get your truck back and walk.

 

[kornphlake]

Was the trade in negotiated sight unseen? I can't imagine why the dealership would give an estimated value when the truck was sitting in the parking lot. It sounds a lot like a scam, call the bank that issued the loan for advice, once the contract is signed you have an obligation to pay the bank, not the dealership.

 

[SearchMaster]

If they insist on a new one, get your truck back and walk

No "if's" needed here. They've shown they're unethical and not worthy of your money. Tell them TODAY to stick to their signed contract TODAY or void the whole thing and give you your truck back TODAY.

I'm telling ya man, they are going to "lose" your trade-in to their auction house, if they haven't already, and the longer you wait the more likely you're screwed. At that point the best you can hope for is to get the cash for your trade-in, which you've already indicated is below market.

 

[jaydee]

That sounds terrible. Would you mind editing your OP telling us which dealer this is? So googlers can find this info out easily before walking in.

Interested in hearing how all this plays out. I'm curious though, why you didn't pursue selling your truck privately. It sounds like (you didn't give the year or mileage, so we can't really evaluate) you would have more than made up the difference in sales tax. Plus those "special deals" on Focuses aren't going away anytime soon due to the new model coming out in a couple months, so you should have suffice time to make the deal. This is definitely my suggestion should you get your truck back.

I'm no lawyer, nor ever been in this position before, but in a matter of "common sense", I think I'd talk to the bank you're getting your loan through and see what they have to say. Obviously, they have a very vested interest in you not defaulting on your loan so maybe one of their bankers can help you evaluate the paperwork.

If it were me, I think worse case scenario (you're forced to pay extra $1,000, no chance for a cancellation), I would threaten to smear them with this story all over the internet (car forums, local forums) and local papers. If we've heard the whole story here, I think it's warranted. But it does trouble me, that you "settled" for $9.3k, where you obviously think you could have gotten $14k+ privately. Even after the sales tax and fact that you may have to rent a car for a few days while the Focus is "getting ready", you'd be way ahead going that route.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Tell them to fuck off and go check with a lawyer. No fucking way would I pay them the $1000 they are trying to extort from you.

Do NOT sign anything else. Go see a lawyer right away.