Can there be a decent Left ?

[syzygy]

walzer is the editor-in-chief of Dissent, the bible for academic leftists in this and many
other countries. a very respectable journal - even if you are not of left persuasion -
you can at least appreciate the existence of well-argued, morally responsible critiques.
no' freedom fighter' cheerleaders here.

wiki bio - michael walzer

article is three years old but grows more relevant with each passing day. even he
could not have foreseen the decline in civility over the past few years.

what is especially noteworthy is the historical context in which he places many of
the left's excesses. they seem to have been passed down like a hereditary disease,
which is the same impression you receive upon reading robert conquest's 'harvest of
sorrow'.

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www2.kenyon.edu/Depts/Religion/Fac/Adler/Politics/Waltzer.htm">link to his Dissent
article</a>

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

How many of these nonsensical, strangely-formatted, stream-of-consciousness posts on the fall of liberalism are you going to make today?

 

[Red Dawn]

n/m

 

[Pabster]

I see that a thread can't be posted without it being trolled, by the usual suspects.

Try posting your opinion in response to the OP's post, instead of dismissing it out of partisan hackery and hi-jacking it.

OP: Interesting opinion piece. I'll highlight the section I agree with:

Blaming America first. Not everything that goes badly in the world goes badly because of us. The United States is not omnipotent, and its leaders should not be taken as co-conspirators in every human disaster. The left has little difficulty understanding the need for distributive justice with regard to resources, but we have been practically clueless about the just distribution of praise and blame. To take the obvious example: in the second half of the twentieth century, the United States fought both just and unjust wars, undertook both just and unjust interventions. It would be a useful exercise to work through the lists and test our capacity to make distinctions--to recognize, say, that the US was wrong in Guatemala in 1956 and right in Kosovo in 1999. Why can?t we accept an ambivalent relation to American power, acknowledging that it has had good and bad effects in the world? But shouldn?t an internationalist left demand a more egalitarian distribution of power? Well, yes, in principle; but any actual redistribution will have to be judged by the quality of the states that would be empowered by it. Faced with states like, say, Saddam Hussein?s Iraq, I don?t think we have to support a global redistribution of political power.

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: DonVito
How many of these nonsensical, strangely-formatted, stream-of-consciousness posts on the fall of liberalism are you going to make today?

:roll: Thanks for your invaluable contribution. for an absurdly, comprehensively vapid troll post.

Do you think posts like yours are good for this forum? Do you think they help make it a worthwhile place for discussion? I've been here for a long time, as you know, and seen you post things of substance. You know your post in this thread is worthless flamebait, right?

 

[Starbuck1975]

How many of these nonsensical, strangely-formatted, stream-of-consciousness posts on the fall of liberalism are you going to make today?

I have only seen two of his posts, but both point to editorial articles or opinion pieces that raise interesting points for discussion...and the OP even offers commentary on specific aspects of the articles that are of interest.

This article raises an interesting point, in the inherent self-hate induced by an ideology that condemns or misunderstands the intent of American foreign policy engagements, some of which may seem contrary to the ideals upon which this nation was founded...it brings to light the inherent conflict between power projection, national sovereignty and national ideals.

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: DonVito
How many of these nonsensical, strangely-formatted, stream-of-consciousness posts on the fall of liberalism are you going to make today?

good que
stion

 

[Steeplerot]

*yawn* more "radical leftist" bs and marxist calling from a group of radical right wingers hell bent on a american reich.

Go ahead, fire up the ovens again so the riots can start.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Pabster
I see that a thread can't be posted without it being trolled, by the usual suspects.

Try posting your opinion in response to the OP's post, instead of dismissing it out of partisan hackery and hi-jacking it.

You're right, I chastize you for constantly doing it and then I do it myself

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
You're right, I chastize you for constantly doing it and then I do it myself

So you are admitting to trolling here?

Please, tell us something we didn't know.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
You're right, I chastize you for constantly doing it and then I do it myself

So you are admitting to trolling here?

Please, tell us something we didn't know.

you know your an extremist nutcase when you start calling red dawn a troll. he is many things, but definitely not a troll.

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
You're right, I chastize you for constantly doing it and then I do it myself

So you are admitting to trolling here?

Please, tell us something we didn't know.

Pabster, there no reason to act like this. You troll as much as the rest of us and you are not above your own criticism. Remember that.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Corn
Pabster, there no reason to act like this. You troll as much as the rest of us and you are not above your own criticism. Remember that.

I don't believe "the rest of us" troll. It is a pretty select little group.

Perhaps my definition of trolling is different than yours. Last I knew, replying to a topic with no opinion of your own related to that topic, often with insults and/or personal attacks, is the very definition of it.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Pabster
Last I knew, replying to a topic with no opinion of your own related to that topic, often with insults and/or personal attacks, is the very definition of my posts.

QFT

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
you know your an extremist nutcase when you start calling red dawn a troll. he is many things, but definitely not a troll.

Do you have an opinion to post about the thread topic, or did you just stop to troll again?

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Pabster
Last I knew, replying to a topic with no opinion of your own related to that topic, often with insults and/or personal attacks, is the very definition of my posts.

QFT

Modifying another's quotes fits the definition as well, Steeple.

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: Corn
Pabster, there no reason to act like this. You troll as much as the rest of us and you are not above your own criticism. Remember that.

I don't believe "the rest of us" troll. It is a pretty select little group.

Perhaps my definition of trolling is different than yours. Last I knew, replying to a topic with no opinion of your own related to that topic, often with insults and/or personal attacks, is the very definition of it.

Are you telling me you've never trolled by your definition?

 

[Steeplerot]

You know Pab, trolling does happen, but adding 50 posts whining about it makes you even worse. Think about it.

If you see a troll, freaking ignore it! Your at the point of straight up threadcrapping lately.

People troll for attention, and you have become the biggest attention whore around here.

 

[umbrella39]

The article is a little dated, anything more recent? The article is 3 years old. Does he still feel the same way?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
you know your an extremist nutcase when you start calling red dawn a troll. he is many things, but definitely not a troll.

Do you have an opinion to post about the thread topic, or did you just stop to troll again?

Kettle meet Pot

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Kettle meet Pot

And your response to the topic at hand was?

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Corn

:roll: Thanks for your invaluable contribution. for an absurdly, comprehensively vapid troll post.

Do you think posts like yours are good for this forum? Do you think they help make it a worthwhile place for discussion? I've been here for a long time, as you know, and seen you post things of substance. You know your post in this thread is worthless flamebait, right?

Awwwwwwwwwww, it's cute having a cyber-stalker!

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: Corn

:roll: Thanks for your invaluable contribution. for an absurdly, comprehensively vapid troll post.

Do you think posts like yours are good for this forum? Do you think they help make it a worthwhile place for discussion? I've been here for a long time, as you know, and seen you post things of substance. You know your post in this thread is worthless flamebait, right?

Awwwwwwwwwww, it's cute having a cyber-stalker!

What I find to be adorable is the *real* forum cyber stalker being owned by his own posts!