Can someone take the trash out?

chizow

Diamond Member
Jun 26, 2001
9,537
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Piracy thread in PC Games

Originally posted by: Maleficus
Originally posted by: chizow
Originally posted by: Maleficus
remind me again how you know I don't have the hardware capable of running these games? or that I don't like games when I've listed games I like because people like you are so obsessed with those of us who don't lap up whatever 'AAA' title falls out of any developers nether regions?
Just an assumption knowing you haven't bought a PC game in years, so if there are no PC games worth buying I'd assume there was no reason to upgrade the hardware either.

You don't have to like every AAA title that gets released, and you certainly don't have to buy them, but if you're not going to buy them then you also don't have the right to play them. This seems to be the part that pirates/thieves/criminals don't seem to understand.

Given your comments about games released over the last few years, its safe to assume you haven't bought any either. Which means your opinions are either based on nothing or you pirate them, which either direct or indirectly invalidates your opinions. But I think most people here already know well enough to ignore your comments about games.
You continually top yourself for idiotic comments, because I didn't buy the game my opinion is invalid? Are my experiences with the game any less real as a result of my lack of ownership? No, you're perspective if just so minuscule and inane because you sit so high up on your self-made pedestal that you can't hardly tell left from right.

The entire purpose of 'piracy' and demos and everything else is to allow you to experience the content before you end up wasting your money on these perennial piles of shit.
and

Originally posted by: Nik
I refuse to pay $60-$100 for a goddamn video game that's going to last me 4 hours and has no replay value. Shit, I refuse to pay $10 at the theater for two hours of a movie that I'm not sure will suck or not.

Game makers marinade their games in good graphics but beyond that it's the same damn game I bought last month. It's the same hack-and-slash or shoot-anything-that-moves crap that came out last year. Look at the Call of Duty chain as an example. I bought the original COD and I bought COD4. COD was good, but COD 2 through, what, 5 now? It's just the same shit over... and over... and over again. The majority of gamers are stupid lemmings that see a title and buy it. As gamers, it's our own fault for driving the price of games up and the quality down because we will buy ANYTHING. We don't put our foot down and say no, this is garbage and I'm not paying $60 for it.

That's why I pirate games. When PC games don't suck so much and when they don't cost a damn arm-and-a-leg, THEN I'll start buying games again.
Particularly Maleficus, who has advocated and justified piracy for years. He's the first to crap on new titles as "sucking" or "not worth buying", yet always has intimate knowledge of the title often before its even released. Someone who openly admits to piracy should not have an opinion or a voice here on AT.


 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
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Given the guidelines that we are under, we can not punish those that steal from others.

All we can do is ensure that they to not discuss ways to be a thief.

If such people hang around FS/T then they will be identified as a S/W thief.
 

CrazyLazy

Platinum Member
Jun 21, 2008
2,124
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As related to the other thread I started in PFI, people can talk openly about smoking pot, dropping acid and even doing harder drugs, but not about pirating video games? He isn't linking to or directly encouraging pirated content and his posting is doing nothing illegal.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
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There are two people in the thread that are encouraging piracy by stating their "justifications" for it.

As stated, we will not do anything about it, but such people get less consideration from Moderators because they are admitted thieves.

We allow the discussion and regretfully can only penalize for providing guidance/instructions on how to.
 

chizow

Diamond Member
Jun 26, 2001
9,537
2
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Thanks for the reply.

That seems to contradict an earlier ruling on the subject:

  • While discussions of piracy are welcome here, openly admitting to software piracy is not permitted. Please cease doing so, or it will result in the offending members posting privileges being suspended. - PC Gaming Moderator - DAPUNISHER

Previous thread

My main issue is that this person is constantly injecting his opinion and its always the same, as its his justification for stealing. Most criminals would have the common sense to keep quiet about their actions, but as you can clearly see, they see nothing wrong with stealing.

 

Canai

Diamond Member
Oct 4, 2006
8,016
1
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Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
There are two people in the thread that are encouraging piracy by stating their "justifications" for it.

As stated, we will not do anything about it, but such people get less consideration from Moderators because they are admitted thieves.

We allow the discussion and regretfully can only penalize for providing guidance/instructions on how to.
Um, I have a couple warnings and a vacation that say differently. I was told that discussing piracy from a pro-piracy perspective was against the rules because it was advocating piracy, and AT could not be seen as a site that advocated piracy. So if discussing or admitting to piracy is advocating it, why can we advocate drug use and drunken driving?

I think it's not so much advocating or encouraging piracy but rather providing a counter argument against all the pirates = criminals people.

Discussing piracy from a pro- perspective is not instructing people how to pirate, just like discussing drug use is not telling people where to get it or how to make it.

I've been avoiding the piracy threads entirely because I was warned against discussing it.

Originally posted by: chizow
Thanks for the reply.

That seems to contradict an earlier ruling on the subject:

  • While discussions of piracy are welcome here, openly admitting to software piracy is not permitted. Please cease doing so, or it will result in the offending members posting privileges being suspended. - PC Gaming Moderator - DAPUNISHER

Previous thread

My main issue is that this person is constantly injecting his opinion and its always the same, as its his justification for stealing. Most criminals would have the common sense to keep quiet about their actions, but as you can clearly see, they see nothing wrong with stealing.
And forcing people of a certain view to never share their opinion would be an improvement? I think it's fair to say that there would be many more people sharing their similar opinions if it weren't for the looming threat of bannination for doing so.

Some clarification on this would definitely be nice.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
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I would prefer to be more proactive on clamping down on piracy.

My interpretation may be different that what DaPunisher has provided.

When he developed such guidelines, he was backed up by myself and others.


As Moderators, we will very the guidelines and act appropriately if there shold be punished for those that are admitting to piracy.
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
23,956
3,570
136
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
I would prefer to be more proactive on clamping down on piracy.

My interpretation may be different that what DaPunisher has provided.

When he developed such guidelines, he was backed up by myself and others.


As Moderators, we will very the guidelines and act appropriately if there shold be punished for those that are admitting to piracy.
So are we to take that to mean that you have no set rules and things are going to be handled on a case by case basis? Some people can, some can't? Some things can be discussed, some can't? It just depends on how you feel at the time?

I, too, have wondered for a long time why it's ok to discussing speeding/DUI/any type of illegal drug usage and the myriad of other illegal things discussed in OT on a daily basis when we get warned in PC Gaming about even speaking of piracy in a positive light or in a personal retrospective way.

Oh, but more on topic, as much as I think Mal is often (and probably always) a prick, I really don't see any reason to ban the fellow.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
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Originally posted by: TheVrolok
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
I would prefer to be more proactive on clamping down on piracy.

My interpretation may be different that what DaPunisher has provided.

When he developed such guidelines, he was backed up by myself and others.


As Moderators, we will very the guidelines and act appropriately if there should be punished for those that are admitting to piracy.
So are we to take that to mean that you have no set rules and things are going to be handled on a case by case basis? Some people can, some can't? Some things can be discussed, some can't? It just depends on how you feel at the time?

I, too, have wondered for a long time why it's OK to discussing speeding/DUI/any type of illegal drug usage and the myriad of other illegal things discussed in OT on a daily basis when we get warned in PC Gaming about even speaking of piracy in a positive light or in a personal retrospective way.

Oh, but more on topic, as much as I think Mal is often (and probably always) a prick, I really don't see any reason to ban the fellow.
It is not that things will be handled on a case by case it is just a grey area developed from my POV

When a grey area pops up, rather than pulling the trigger on someone immediately, we (Moderators) attempt to determine what the guidelines should say to include/exclude the situation. With Derek the final say, we need to confirm changes with him.
Pre Derek, any admission of piracy would be dealt with with a vacation, assistance of piracy would be a long vacation.

The general impression that we have been given as a guideline is that it is OK to discuss illegal items as long as one does not provide guidance in doing so.

As many will have noted, there has been a shift in cultural tolerance (for good or bad) over the past couple of years.

OT seems to think that the drug issue is self contained and what one does to ones self is their responsbility.
Piracy is hurting others via theft and is illegal, which puts it in a different category than drug/alcohol abuse/usage.
Discussion/advocation of drug usage that causes harm or danger to others is not tolerated.
Look at the flaming that goes on for people that get caught in a DUI or whiine about a speeding ticket

The two primary miscreatents in the referenced thread have respond in different ways. One acknowledges "wrong doing" and indicates a change (at least w/ respect to AT). The other attempted to erase evidence; however, enough people quoted him that there is no doubt of his guilt.


 

Stuxnet

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2005
8,403
1
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The man is entitled to his opinion. You can't "take out the trash" just because you don't like what he's saying. If he starts providing instructions/links, that's a different story.
 

cKGunslinger

Lifer
Nov 29, 1999
16,396
44
91
Originally posted by: chizow

Particularly Maleficus, who has advocated and justified piracy for years. He's the first to crap on new titles as "sucking" or "not worth buying", yet always has intimate knowledge of the title often before its even released. Someone who openly admits to piracy should not have an opinion or a voice here on AT.
Oh, grow up. :roll:

He's not talking about raping puppies and stabbing babies (of course, those activities can be discussed here without threats of special demeaning titles) - he's talking about downloading games illegally - and he's not even telling anyone how to do such, just admitting he does with his own justification.

Do I condone piracy? Not particularly, due to being a coder myself, but there is frequently discussion on this forum about speeding, drunk driving, street racing, smoking weed, and a host of other illegal and illicit activities, but very few come running to Forum Issues to demand they they be silenced forever for their beliefs and views..

 

Number1

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,759
262
126
How smart is it to admit to illegal activities on an internet forum? I don't care how anonymous you think you are, you can always be found out.

And if you feel that strongly against software piracy, report the fucker. I am sure game makers would be glad to go after some of them.
 

Alone

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2006
7,492
0
0
Originally posted by: Number1
How smart is it to admit to illegal activities on an internet forum? I don't care how anonymous you think you are, you can always be found out.
Only if the administration of AT, or someone higher up, decides to give out your information. In this case, it's not worth anyones time to prosecute people from various parts of the world based on what they say on a forum. How can they prove I wasn't lying when I said I downloaded movies illegally?

Originally posted by: Number1
And if you feel that strongly against software piracy, report the fucker. I am sure game makers would be glad to go after some of them.
"uh..yeah...theres this guy on this forum, he said he stole ur game lul. u might want to sue him!"
 
Oct 27, 2007
17,010
1
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Advocating piracy should be grounds for instaban in my opinion. But the biggest problem with AT (and this applies forum-wide) is the lack of consistency in how the rules are applied.
 

chizow

Diamond Member
Jun 26, 2001
9,537
2
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Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Originally posted by: chizow

Particularly Maleficus, who has advocated and justified piracy for years. He's the first to crap on new titles as "sucking" or "not worth buying", yet always has intimate knowledge of the title often before its even released. Someone who openly admits to piracy should not have an opinion or a voice here on AT.
Oh, grow up. :roll:

He's not talking about raping puppies and stabbing babies (of course, those activities can be discussed here without threats of special demeaning titles) - he's talking about downloading games illegally - and he's not even telling anyone how to do such, just admitting he does with his own justification.

Do I condone piracy? Not particularly, due to being a coder myself, but there is frequently discussion on this forum about speeding, drunk driving, street racing, smoking weed, and a host of other illegal and illicit activities, but very few come running to Forum Issues to demand they they be silenced forever for their beliefs and views..
This isn't just directed at you, its also directed at the others who brought up similar. This site is AnandTech, not AnandTorrent or AnandMySpace or AnandRandomThoughts. I understand OT is a big part of why some people frequent the site, but I have no interest in what goes on there. I also understand the mods are generally more lenient there because thats the general culture of the forum.

The back story with Maleficus is that he has directly and indirectly admitted to piracy numerous times in the past. He is also notorious for crapping on PC games, often saying they "suck" or "not worth a penny" etc. He has also admitted to not buying any games in years. Its clear he is simply hiding behind the guise that the "game sucks and isn't worth buying", which becomes his justification for stealing the title and pirating it. He is always going to think a game sucks because if he finds any enjoyment, his justification for stealing it is no longer valid.

If he's not willing to pay for a game, he should not be allowed to voice his opinion on it, its that simple. That'd be like you giving someone a free meal, then having them spit it in your face. People like this should not have a voice here on AT, or anywhere imo. In any case he's stated he won't post any more in the video forum, which is fine, I guess we'll just see fewer derisive remarks for new games within the first 5 posts now.
 

Alone

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2006
7,492
0
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I downloaded "Hancock"; it sucked.
I downloaded the 1951 version of "The Day the Earth Stood Still"; it was ok.
I downloaded the last two Metallica albums; not impressed.
I downloaded Quantum of Solace; I thought the first one was better.
I downloaded the entire Led Zeppelin discography; I'm not really a fan, can't say I see the appeal in most of their music.
Tokyo Drift was a terrible movie, I downloaded that too.

I'm not going to lie about something just because I didn't have to pay for it. It wasn't a gift or an act of generosity, I stole it, all on my own.


You are extremely likely you have a previously clean record, or you'd be on vacation right now. What you do is your business, stating it here is absolutely not allowed.

Another mod might have skipped the warning and sent you straight to jail. You are lucky. Stupid, but lucky.

Theft of any kind, as well as its advocacy or its admission, is not welcome here.

Perknose
Senior AT Mod


 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,226
34
91
Originally posted by: Alone
Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Advocating piracy should be grounds for instaban in my opinion.
For what reason?
Because pirates are scum, and if I was an advertiser, I would not give my money to a forum that openly advocated, or let it's members openly advocate piracy.
 

Alone

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2006
7,492
0
0
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
if I was an advertiser, I would not give my money to a forum that openly advocated, or let it's members openly advocate piracy.
Then you'd be terrible at marketing and you'd be out of a job. Obviously they're profiting or they wouldn't be advertising here anymore.
 

Alone

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2006
7,492
0
0
Originally posted by: Alone
You are extremely likely you have a previously clean record, or you'd be on vacation right now. What you do is your business, stating it here is absolutely not allowed.

Another mod might have skipped the warning and sent you straight to jail. You are lucky. Stupid, but lucky.

Theft of any kind, as well as its advocacy or its admission, is not welcome here.

Perknose
Senior AT Mod
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Given the guidelines that we are under, we can not punish those that steal from others.

All we can do is ensure that they to not discuss ways to be a thief.
Could someone please clarify whose rules I'm supposed to follow? Don't want to be banned or anything. I don't see it as being fair to have a warning on my record, when, according to one set of rules, what I did was completely acceptable (perhaps not appreciated, but not punishable).

And I resent being called stupid, as the laws in my country are different from yours and say that what I do is not (yet) a crime.
 

Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
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Can the mods clarify their hierarchy of crime approval?

It seems like drug use and traffic violations (you know, the things that people die over) are at the top of AT's approved crime list (approved by silent inaction or otherwise).

Piracy seems to be towards the bottom, with AT taking a very anti-piracy stance while ignoring admissions of other illegal activities.

I would assume things like murder and sexual abuse would be at the very, very bottom, but I don't know for sure.

Make the mods can make a chart or something? A pyramid? I think members would benefit from knowing which crimes we can post about here and which we can't.

EDIT: Oh, and I think it would be best to have two separate charts for advocacy/discussion and admission, as the two a radically different activities. Discussion is an activity of learning and maturing, while admission is just an activity of acknowledgment.
 

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