Can someone please explain our justice system?

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sapiens74

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Jan 14, 2004
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We recently had a girl in Hawaii convicted of punching another girl and damaging her eye socket which required surgery to repair

The now convicted ex volleyball player had to pay 2k in restitution


What I don't understand is why the convict doesn't have to pay the full medical bill?

We have jury's awarding millions to the RIAA but we don't expect criminals to pay the full amount of what they caused?


Why does the victim then have to sue in Civil court as well?

 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
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Originally posted by: sapiens74
We recently had a girl in Hawaii convicted of punching another girl and damaging her eye socket which required surgery to repair

The now convicted ex volleyball player had to pay 2k in restitution


What I don't understand is why the convict doesn't have to pay the full medical bill?

We have jury's awarding millions to the RIAA but we don't expect criminals to pay the full amount of what they caused?


Why does the victim then have to sue in Civil court as well?

These are good questions. I am hoping that maybe someone here is a lawyer and can explain it, because I don't understand it either.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
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How much does the RIAA lobby donate to elected officials per year? How much does the litigation lobby donate to elected officials per year? How much do punch happy Hawaiians donate to elected officials per year?
 

db

Lifer
Dec 6, 1999
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The amount of justice you get usually depends on how expensive your lawyer is.
 

LunarRay

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Mar 2, 2003
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Battery is both a criminal and civil event... The Tort of Battery is where you get actual and punitive compensation. Like OJ, for instance... A civil, event which has different controls for evidence and testimony and burden of proof, generally.
Criminal court deals with events that can lead to prison etc...Much stricter burden of proof and testimony (you can't compel defendant testimony like in Civil court. It is not a place to find the actual cost of the Tort... but rather the penalty for Battery under law.
 

CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
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Originally posted by: LunarRay
Battery is both a criminal and civil event... the Tort of Battery is where you get actual and punitive compensation. Like OJ, for instance... A civil, event which has different controls for evidence and testimony and burden of proof, generally.
Criminal court deals with events that can lead to prison etc... it is not a place to find the actual cost of the Tort... but rather the penalty for Battery under law.
Yeah, what he said.


Criminal Court is for punishing offenders. Civil Court is for recovery of damages.
 

0marTheZealot

Golden Member
Apr 5, 2004
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You get the justice you can afford unfortunately. It's been documented many, many times. The better/more expensive your lawyer, the better your outcome at trial.
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
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Originally posted by: CallMeJoe
Originally posted by: LunarRay
Battery is both a criminal and civil event... the Tort of Battery is where you get actual and punitive compensation. Like OJ, for instance... A civil, event which has different controls for evidence and testimony and burden of proof, generally.
Criminal court deals with events that can lead to prison etc... it is not a place to find the actual cost of the Tort... but rather the penalty for Battery under law.
Yeah, what he said.


Criminal Court is for punishing offenders. Civil Court is for recovery of damages.

:thumbsup: to both posts. Good explanations of the differences.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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To expand on the answers already provided:

The basic isue is that the criminal and civil trials really address very separate questions.

Remember, in the crimiinal trial, the design is that it's not even the accused versus the victime, it's 'the people' as the prosecutor.

It's a very specific process about determining violation of the crimnal law on specific code violations.

The civil trial addresses the amount owed with minimal relation to any criminal law - it's about contracts and other harms and remedies.

It's a very different matter to be discussing the finer points of the woman's criminal culpability in the attack - her state of mind, intent, and other matters - from the question of what she should have to pay to compensate the victim apart from any criminal fines, which uses different standards of proof (beyond a reasonable doubt for criminal, preonderance of the evidence for civil), has different evidence rules, typically a different jury size and vote requirement (unanimous requirement for criminal, typically not for civil), and so on.

Just because the attack has both criminal and civil issues doens't mean it makes sense to use the same trial.

The main relationship between the two is that given the higher standard of proof for criminal trials, civil trials often wait for the criminal trial and use that as evidence.

It's very convenient for plaintiffs to be able to save proving guilt at the civil trial and simply point to the criminal conviction, and get to the damages.

The only reasons the plaintiff normally would only owe 2K instead of the full medical bills would be the judge deciding that the blame was divided, or that not all the bills were legitimate for charging to the defendant (for example, if the bill was padded), or a limit on the court's damages (small claims court for example typically has a limit of 5K or a little more, but I doubt the limit is 2k).

The RIAA analogy just muddies the waters on your main question IMO. You can always have that sort of thing, that makes it more of a rant.

'We can put a man on the moon, but we can't (fill in your pet peeve government isn't doing how you want)'.

RIAA has a lot more to do with societal issues, technology, and politics than with the courts.
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
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Originally posted by: sapiens74
We recently had a girl in Hawaii convicted of punching another girl and damaging her eye socket which required surgery to repair

The now convicted ex volleyball player had to pay 2k in restitution


What I don't understand is why the convict doesn't have to pay the full medical bill?

We have jury's awarding millions to the RIAA but we don't expect criminals to pay the full amount of what they caused?


Why does the victim then have to sue in Civil court as well?

'cause Criminal and Civil are different?
 

Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
12,505
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Originally posted by: CallMeJoe
Originally posted by: LunarRay
Battery is both a criminal and civil event... the Tort of Battery is where you get actual and punitive compensation. Like OJ, for instance... A civil, event which has different controls for evidence and testimony and burden of proof, generally.
Criminal court deals with events that can lead to prison etc... it is not a place to find the actual cost of the Tort... but rather the penalty for Battery under law.
Yeah, what he said.


Criminal Court is for punishing offenders. Civil Court is for recovery of damages.

 
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