Can someone help me find any New Jersey laws indicating if this is illegal?

[Fox5]

Earlier today, a small child was playing in my driveway as I was trying to leave my house. At first, I thought "Oh great, I have to go find his parents now" but he proceded to back out on my own. I was glad the kid moved out of his way on his own (the father was halfway down the block, easily over 100 feet away, and not noticably watching his child), and went down the driveway. The kid then started to cry. I roll down my window and try to comfort the kid and tell him it's ok, what's the matter, etc, and his father runs over and says "Oh, excuse me, it looks like my child was in your way, but if you ever have your car approach my child again, I will kick the living daylights out of you."

Now, whether or not I was at fault for anything here (though I don't believe anything besides not running over the kid is my responsibility in this situation), the streets are obviously not meant for children to play in, my driveway definetely isn't, and there's no way for the father to ensure everyone won't run his kids over, let alone treat them as he wants (especially at over 100 ft away, please, if you're going to let little children play in the street, be within arms distance), and it seems like he isn't doing his job to protect his children by letting them play in a street.

I've found sites about other states that seem to infer that it's illegal for children to play in streets by federal law. In addition, several states (possibly all?) have laws that technically make children at play signs illegal because they're distracting, give a false sense of security, and most specifically, aren't state sanctioned traffic signs. If anyone could find me a federal or New Jersey law making it illegal for children to play in the street, that would be wonderful, though I suppose I could just call the cops outright but I'm not sure if it'd be a well known enough law where they'd feel obligated to enforce it. If you could find anything specifically in New Jersey outlawing those children at play signs, that would be a nice bonus too.

I don't feel this guy's children should be my responsibility at all, other than making sure I follow the speed limit and don't hit any. To have them playing out in the streets everyday is a hinderance to traffic and a severe danger to the children. It's not like there aren't plenty of places for the kids to play. The guy has a large driveway and yard for the kids to play out, there's at least 5 playgrounds/parks within 10 minutes driving distance, and if he really felt that he was owed a public place next to his house where his children could play, there's a swale next to his house that he could petition to have filled in and turned into a play area, so it's not like this is an extreme urban setting where if the kids want to play outdoors they have to be in the streets.

 

[dmcowen674]

This came up in Off Topic.

Apparently you are paying taxes for the streets to be playgrounds for the kids.

 

[Orsorum]

I'll definitely be interested to learn about this topic. I am always careful when driving around children, but it's my opinion that a road is just that - a road, a surface designated primarily for travel by automobile or bicycle.

Additionally, you might want to have a talk with your neighbor about his children trespassing on your property.

 

[Fox5]

Dmcowen, do you have the link to that post? I can't find it using the search. What was the outcome anyhow? It appears to be illegal by federal law, but I can't find anything definite.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Orsorum
I'll definitely be interested to learn about this topic. I am always careful when driving around children, but it's my opinion that a road is just that - a road, a surface designated primarily for travel by automobile or bicycle.

Additionally, you might want to have a talk with your neighbor about his children trespassing on your property.

Never seen Children At Play signs?

The roads were made for children.

 

[thraashman]

Well. I don't know about the children playing in the streets law. But you can press assault charges against the guy for threatening physical violence on you.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: thraashman
Well. I don't know about the children playing in the streets law. But you can press assault charges against the guy for threatening physical violence on you.

Yes, that thought crossed my mind as well. Haven't taken any common law courses, though, so I don't know the specific legal criteria.

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: thraashman
Well. I don't know about the children playing in the streets law. But you can press assault charges against the guy for threatening physical violence on you.

It's only a verbal threat though, it'd be my word against his (and most likely his wife and friends) and I doubt they'd support me over him in court. Besides, their his kids, he has the right to be protective of them, I just think he's doing a poor job of protecting them and creating a hazard to the community.

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Orsorum
I'll definitely be interested to learn about this topic. I am always careful when driving around children, but it's my opinion that a road is just that - a road, a surface designated primarily for travel by automobile or bicycle.

Additionally, you might want to have a talk with your neighbor about his children trespassing on your property.

Never seen Children At Play signs?

The roads were made for children.

Children at Play signs aren't official signs, and many states apparently not only won't put them up, but will take them down if found.

 

[skooma]

Sounds to me you were more upset about the way the guy spoke with you than the child playing in the road/driveway.

How old is the kid anyway?

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: skooma
Sounds to me you were more upset about the way the guy spoke with you than the child playing in the road/driveway.

How old is the kid anyway?

I dunno, not very. Definetely under 10, what age do kids ride trikes till? Ages 2 to 5? The kid definetely isn't old enough to be bearing any sort of responsiblity, certainly not where if he was my kid I would feel comfortable leaving him in the street or letting him more than 20 feet from me.

These kids have been playing in the road for a long time and frequently run in front of traffic even, and I always wait patiently for them to get out of the way. However, if they're legally not supposed to be there, then if the guy is going to threaten me because he doesn't think I'm treating his children with the utmost repect they deserve, then I want to have them legally kept on his property or public play areas. Sure, the only reason I'm bring this up now is because of his actions, but they've always been a nuisance, and he certainly hasn't been a good neighbor about the whole thing. There's good reason for both the safety of his children and the convenience of others to keep his children out of the street though, so this is not a purely self-serving action, it's a win all around, except in his ability to infringe on the rights of others.

 

[BBond]

Call DYFS and report the idiot for endangering the welfare of his kids then call the local police and tell them you called DYFS and why, then file a complaint against the idiot for threatening you.

 

[piasabird]

Technically if a sidewalk goes through your driveway so many feet around it may be considered a public right of way. You could have honked your horn. Just keep in mind that one day it may be your child on his bike. I dont think the nutcase father should have yelled at you like that. Be careful about aggravating hot-heads, this guy may be a hunter with an arsenal of firearms for all you know. It may be easier getting along with a neighbor than the expense and time of moving.

Might be a lot better to just invite the guy over for a beer or a Bar-B-Q and just tell this guy you were worried about his kid.

Best to talk this out when you and him are not angry. There is always the No Trespassing Sign in the front yard. Still if you have a sidewalk you can not keep people from using it.

 

[dainthomas]

Originally posted by: BBond
Call DYFS and report the idiot for endangering the welfare of his kids then call the local police and tell them you called DYFS and why, then file a complaint against the idiot for threatening you.

Winnar. Too many idiot people with idiot kids.

Let the freakin' neanderthal explain ass-kicking to the judge.

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: piasabird
Technically if a sidewalk goes through your driveway so many feet around it may be considered a public right of way. You could have honked your horn. Just keep in mind that one day it may be your child on his bike. I dont think the nutcase father should have yelled at you like that. Be careful about aggravating hot-heads, this guy may be a hunter with an arsenal of firearms for all you know. It may be easier getting along with a neighbor than the expense and time of moving.

Might be a lot better to just invite the guy over for a beer or a Bar-B-Q and just tell this guy you were worried about his kid.

Best to talk this out when you and him are not angry. There is always the No Trespassing Sign in the front yard. Still if you have a sidewalk you can not keep people from using it.

We have no sidewalks in our neighborhood.
And his kids are always in the street, it's a danger to them and a nuisance. They aren't just in the street, they are all over it, not paying attention where they're going, and their parents are often barely watching them.
And if there really is a federal law against children playing in the street like some websites seem to indicate, then he's violating the law by having his children play in the street. If they're not old enough to follow traffic laws and recognize that traffic will be coming down the street, then they shouldn't be playing on the street unsupervised, or perferrably at all.

And the kid is likely to have cried if I honked the horn as well, just the prescence of a car seems to have freaked him out, and I likely would have had a talking down about honking at his children had I.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Fox5
Dmcowen, do you have the link to that post? I can't find it using the search. What was the outcome anyhow? It appears to be illegal by federal law, but I can't find anything definite.

I like Ohio in regards to this:

Ohio DOT - Slow Children at Play Signs

These signs are not used by Ohio Department of Transportation (ODOT) on the rural state highway system and ODOT discourages others from using them. It should also be noted that the rectangular children at play signs that are often seen are a nonstandard shape for a warning sign. Warning signs should be diamond-shaped. It should be noted that if there is a "designated children's play area" the Ohio Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices does have a "playground sign."

The following is from the Traffic Engineering Manual of the Ohio Department of Transportation (ODOT). It discusses ODOT's position on the use of signs with wording such as children at play, slow children or watch for children.

Signs intended to alert drivers that children may be present in an area, such as CHILDREN AT PLAY or WATCH FOR CHILDREN, have not been shown to have a discernable benefit to traffic safety but still remain popular with the public. No factual evidence has been presented to document the success of this type of signing in reducing pedestrian accidents, operating speeds or legal liability. Studies have shown that many types of signs attempting to warn of normal conditions in residential areas, or conditions that are not always present, have failed to achieve the desired safety benefits.

Children should not be encouraged to play in the roadway.

If signs encourage parents and children to believe they have an added degree of protection, which the signs do not and cannot provide, this can result in a disservice.

This type of signing has long been rejected since it is a direct and open suggestion that this behavior is acceptable.

For these reasons, ODOT does not provide CHILDREN AT PLAY or similar signing.

This type of signing is not recommended for use on any roadway at any time.

 

[Rock Hydra]

I notice a lot of those signs around in the rural area I used to live in, in NY.
I can't find whether or not they are valid or not, not sure what to search for....what i did search for didn't turn up any results

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Fox5
Earlier today, a small child was playing in my driveway as I was trying to leave my house. At first, I thought "Oh great, I have to go find his parents now" but he proceded to back out on my own. I was glad the kid moved out of his way on his own (the father was halfway down the block, easily over 100 feet away, and not noticably watching his child), and went down the driveway. The kid then started to cry. I roll down my window and try to comfort the kid and tell him it's ok, what's the matter, etc, and his father runs over and says "Oh, excuse me, it looks like my child was in your way, but if you ever have your car approach my child again, I will kick the living daylights out of you."

Now, whether or not I was at fault for anything here (though I don't believe anything besides not running over the kid is my responsibility in this situation), the streets are obviously not meant for children to play in, my driveway definetely isn't, and there's no way for the father to ensure everyone won't run his kids over, let alone treat them as he wants (especially at over 100 ft away, please, if you're going to let little children play in the street, be within arms distance), and it seems like he isn't doing his job to protect his children by letting them play in a street.

I've found sites about other states that seem to infer that it's illegal for children to play in streets by federal law. In addition, several states (possibly all?) have laws that technically make children at play signs illegal because they're distracting, give a false sense of security, and most specifically, aren't state sanctioned traffic signs. If anyone could find me a federal or New Jersey law making it illegal for children to play in the street, that would be wonderful, though I suppose I could just call the cops outright but I'm not sure if it'd be a well known enough law where they'd feel obligated to enforce it. If you could find anything specifically in New Jersey outlawing those children at play signs, that would be a nice bonus too.

I don't feel this guy's children should be my responsibility at all, other than making sure I follow the speed limit and don't hit any. To have them playing out in the streets everyday is a hinderance to traffic and a severe danger to the children. It's not like there aren't plenty of places for the kids to play. The guy has a large driveway and yard for the kids to play out, there's at least 5 playgrounds/parks within 10 minutes driving distance, and if he really felt that he was owed a public place next to his house where his children could play, there's a swale next to his house that he could petition to have filled in and turned into a play area, so it's not like this is an extreme urban setting where if the kids want to play outdoors they have to be in the streets.

why didn`t you kick the guys ass?

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Fox5
Dmcowen, do you have the link to that post? I can't find it using the search. What was the outcome anyhow? It appears to be illegal by federal law, but I can't find anything definite.

I like Ohio in regards to this:

Ohio DOT - Slow Children at Play Signs

These signs are not used by Ohio Department of Transportation (ODOT) on the rural state highway system and ODOT discourages others from using them. It should also be noted that the rectangular children at play signs that are often seen are a nonstandard shape for a warning sign. Warning signs should be diamond-shaped. It should be noted that if there is a "designated children's play area" the Ohio Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices does have a "playground sign."

The following is from the Traffic Engineering Manual of the Ohio Department of Transportation (ODOT). It discusses ODOT's position on the use of signs with wording such as children at play, slow children or watch for children.

Signs intended to alert drivers that children may be present in an area, such as CHILDREN AT PLAY or WATCH FOR CHILDREN, have not been shown to have a discernable benefit to traffic safety but still remain popular with the public. No factual evidence has been presented to document the success of this type of signing in reducing pedestrian accidents, operating speeds or legal liability. Studies have shown that many types of signs attempting to warn of normal conditions in residential areas, or conditions that are not always present, have failed to achieve the desired safety benefits.

Children should not be encouraged to play in the roadway.

If signs encourage parents and children to believe they have an added degree of protection, which the signs do not and cannot provide, this can result in a disservice.

This type of signing has long been rejected since it is a direct and open suggestion that this behavior is acceptable.

For these reasons, ODOT does not provide CHILDREN AT PLAY or similar signing.

This type of signing is not recommended for use on any roadway at any time.

I found several websites for different states stating the same thing.

why didn`t you kick the guys ass?

I don't think that would have helped the situation, not to mention one of his friends (and neighbor) is a cop and I'm not confident he would side with me if an incident did occur.

 

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: thraashman
Well. I don't know about the children playing in the streets law. But you can press assault charges against the guy for threatening physical violence on you.

Hehe. If I were the guy and the OP tried to press charges I'd just tell the truth.

The OP tried to get my kid in the car

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: Fox5

Originally posted by: piasabird
Technically if a sidewalk goes through your driveway so many feet around it may be considered a public right of way. You could have honked your horn. Just keep in mind that one day it may be your child on his bike. I dont think the nutcase father should have yelled at you like that. Be careful about aggravating hot-heads, this guy may be a hunter with an arsenal of firearms for all you know. It may be easier getting along with a neighbor than the expense and time of moving.

Might be a lot better to just invite the guy over for a beer or a Bar-B-Q and just tell this guy you were worried about his kid.

Best to talk this out when you and him are not angry. There is always the No Trespassing Sign in the front yard. Still if you have a sidewalk you can not keep people from using it.

We have no sidewalks in our neighborhood.
And his kids are always in the street, it's a danger to them and a nuisance. They aren't just in the street, they are all over it, not paying attention where they're going, and their parents are often barely watching them.
And if there really is a federal law against children playing in the street like some websites seem to indicate, then he's violating the law by having his children play in the street. If they're not old enough to follow traffic laws and recognize that traffic will be coming down the street, then they shouldn't be playing on the street unsupervised, or perferrably at all.

And the kid is likely to have cried if I honked the horn as well, just the prescence of a car seems to have freaked him out, and I likely would have had a talking down about honking at his children had I.

There is not going to be federal law preventing kids from playing in a state or local road. That clearly is outside of federal jurisdiction. The sites might be confused and the law covers interstates and the like. They have a sign listing what is prohibited.

Most cites and states will have laws used for removing bums and protesters which could be enforced against a kid playing in the street, but no cop is going to enforce them.

 

[episodic]

You didn't hear? If it is for the kids, it must be good

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: Fox5
Earlier today, a small child was playing in my driveway as I was trying to leave my house. At first, I thought "Oh great, I have to go find his parents now" but he proceded to back out on my own. I was glad the kid moved out of his way on his own (the father was halfway down the block, easily over 100 feet away, and not noticably watching his child), and went down the driveway. The kid then started to cry. I roll down my window and try to comfort the kid and tell him it's ok, what's the matter, etc, and his father runs over and says "Oh, excuse me, it looks like my child was in your way, but if you ever have your car approach my child again, I will kick the living daylights out of you."

Now, whether or not I was at fault for anything here (though I don't believe anything besides not running over the kid is my responsibility in this situation), the streets are obviously not meant for children to play in, my driveway definetely isn't, and there's no way for the father to ensure everyone won't run his kids over, let alone treat them as he wants (especially at over 100 ft away, please, if you're going to let little children play in the street, be within arms distance), and it seems like he isn't doing his job to protect his children by letting them play in a street.

I've found sites about other states that seem to infer that it's illegal for children to play in streets by federal law. In addition, several states (possibly all?) have laws that technically make children at play signs illegal because they're distracting, give a false sense of security, and most specifically, aren't state sanctioned traffic signs. If anyone could find me a federal or New Jersey law making it illegal for children to play in the street, that would be wonderful, though I suppose I could just call the cops outright but I'm not sure if it'd be a well known enough law where they'd feel obligated to enforce it. If you could find anything specifically in New Jersey outlawing those children at play signs, that would be a nice bonus too.

I don't feel this guy's children should be my responsibility at all, other than making sure I follow the speed limit and don't hit any. To have them playing out in the streets everyday is a hinderance to traffic and a severe danger to the children. It's not like there aren't plenty of places for the kids to play. The guy has a large driveway and yard for the kids to play out, there's at least 5 playgrounds/parks within 10 minutes driving distance, and if he really felt that he was owed a public place next to his house where his children could play, there's a swale next to his house that he could petition to have filled in and turned into a play area, so it's not like this is an extreme urban setting where if the kids want to play outdoors they have to be in the streets.

why didn`t you kick the guys ass?

Better question, why didn't you jump back in the car then run over his kid?

 

[Blackjack2000]

Wow, this is amazing to me. I also live in NJ, and am also on a block with several kids aged 1 to 4, though inter-neighbor relations seem to be slightly better. None of the kids on our block are ever allowed to play in the street. They only cross when they are holding the hand of an adult (or being carried across)

BTW, not a real busy street, probably 10 - 15 cars per hour.

 

[piasabird]

Maybe you should get a video camera and collect some evidence. Cops will never believe anything you say. If you dont have proof they will just laugh it off.