Can someone explain the Chinese situation to me?

[johnjohn320]

I haven't really been paying much attention to the topic, I know that an American plane collided with a chinese fighter and now the Chinese have our guys and won't give em back. What I don't know is why? Why are the Chinese asking for an apology? Why won't they let our guys come home? Thanks for explaining all this to me. And please, no links to cnn.com or anything, just lay it out in a few sentences.

 

[mundania]

We don't know the exact reason why they aren't giving our guys back. They maybe waiting for an apology, or interrogating the crewmen, etc...

They're asking for the apology because they think we hit THEM.
Many people in Washington are even going so far as to describe the crewmen as 'hostages'. That may or may not just be propaganda, so you can judge for yourself.

And things are even more complicated by the fact that our plane was a SPY plane.
If you just isolate that fact from everything about international law, etc... we look pretty bad to them.

 

[DesignDawg]

The main reason this is a big deal is because everyone involved in the dimplomacy is acting childish. YOU apologize. NO. I didn't do anything wrong. Yes you did. No I didn't. Uh-huh. Nuh-uh. Uh-huh. The rest of it, you nailed. You're about as current as anyone else.

They want an apology. We don't want to give them one. We want our men back. They don't want to give them to us. It's all like a big "You first." "No, you first" situation that has to end up with some sort of "OK, we'll do it at the SAME TIME....Ready? One.... Two..... Threeeee...." compromise. Very childish, the whole thing.
What we need in this situation is what ALWAYS ends this type of argument between kids. --A big, mad mom. "YOU KIDS SHUT UP! CHINA! GIVE US BACK HIS MEN! US, YOU SAY YOU'RE SORRY!!!" That's how it would end up in the back of the car, if China and US were kids arguing. Unfortunately, there is no "Mother Country" at the moment. (Russia doesn't count.)

Ricky
DesignDawg

 

[damocles]

What scares me is that i think the Chinese are holding back on an apology to whip up anti-US feelings in China.

 

[CichliSuite]

Whip up anti-US feelings?

Most of the world hates our guts to begin with.

 

[Looney]

<< Many people in Washington are even going so far as to describe the crewmen as 'hostages'. That may or may not just be propaganda, so you can judge for yourself. >>



Actually, i would like to know who in Washington are saying this? If anything, they're trying to downplay the 'hostage' notion, because that would make the administration look weak, as if they couldn't handle this and this has gone this far. If anything, they've been saying they've been making great progress, and even started to accept the delays as the Chinese bureaucracy.



<< The main reason this is a big deal is because everyone involved in the dimplomacy is acting childish. YOU apologize. NO. I didn't do anything wrong. Yes you did. No I didn't. Uh-huh. Nuh-uh. Uh-huh. The rest of it, you nailed. You're about as current as anyone else >>



So true... and it's also the media overplaying everything.



<< What scares me is that i think the Chinese are holding back on an apology to whip up anti-US feelings in China. >>



Hm, have you been watching what's been happening within China lately? The Chinese government have stopped demonstrations against the US, unlike the time when the US bombed the Chinese embassy, in which case they supported those demonstrations.

But DesignDawn is right, it's just childish behavior. Both on the Bush administration and the Chinese communist party. People need to understand that there isn't a single individual that makes all the decision in the Chinese government (Deng made sure of that), so everything is discussed and debated by the party. Think about it for a sec, what do you think the Chinese would really do to those detainees? Torture them? Imprison them? Kill them?! Although none of those will start a war (please, despite what you republicans want/think, the US wouldn't dare to enter the war, not because they'll lose, but because most Americans would agree that a war over twentysomeodd individuals isn't worth it), China would certainly be sanctioned against, and that would definitely have a more detrimental affect than war could ever do.

 

[mundania]

<<

<< Many people in Washington are even going so far as to describe the crewmen as 'hostages'. That may or may not just be propaganda, so you can judge for yourself. >>



Actually, i would like to know who in Washington are saying this? If anything, they're trying to downplay the 'hostage' notion, because that would make the administration look weak, as if they couldn't handle this and this has gone this far. If anything, they've been saying they've been making great progress, and even started to accept the delays as the Chinese bureaucracy. >>



Pat Buchanan for one. No link because I heard this while he was debating with all these other people on some politics program. I don't know what it's called.

 

[damocles]

Hm, have you been watching what's been happening within China lately? The Chinese government have stopped demonstrations against the US, unlike the time when the US bombed the Chinese embassy, in which case they supported those demonstrations.

Maybe they have stopped protesting, however TV and news coverage is strongly anti-US. When BBC news crews interviewed people on the streets a large number wanted the prisoners executed

 

[DesignDawg]

<< a large number wanted the prisoners executed >>

That's fscked up. SOmething's wrong with that. Seriously wrong.

Ricky
DesignDawg

 

[pdiddy]

hopefully, all will end peacefully

 

[damocles]

DD i 100% agree

 

[mundania]

<<

<< a large number wanted the prisoners executed >>

That's fscked up. SOmething's wrong with that. Seriously wrong.

Ricky
DesignDawg >>


Well..it's not that hard to believe. Chinese propaganda probably has its people so whipped up into a fury.

 

[mundania]

double post.. my bad

 

[ChrisIsBored]

Chinese fighter jet intimidates US reconnasaince plane by going against international law and breaking the 200 foot distance.

Chinese fighter jet hits the much much MUCH slower US plane and crashed into the ocean. He ejects and probably survives. US plane forced to land and hails mayday and lands on a Chinese island. Chinese pilot probably now resting on the bottom of the ocean with a gun shot in his head to make him seem like a martyr and the Chinese govt can have something to complain about. One pilot vs. US admission of wrong-doing and getting the upper hand... since when does China care about human rights?

Party of the US plane detained and YES, held as hostage.
Definition of a hostage:hos·tage (hstj)
n.

1) A person held by one party in a conflict as security that specified terms will be met by the opposing party.
2) One that serves as security against an implied threat: superpowers held hostage to each other by their nuclear arsenals.
3) One that is manipulated by the demands of another.

Chinese are demanding an apology.

Against international law the Chinese board the plane, hold these individuals hostage, break the 200 foot rule... and to top it off, they don't allow US contact but for 40 mins on some days. Two days ago China even decided NOT to have talks with the US. You would think they would be trying to ending this thing.

My predictions...

If the US does apologize, then we are admitting that

1) It's our fault we hit that jet with a plane that averages 200 MPH and the very max is like 360 MPH.. compared to a jet that can hit mach 2.. oh yea sure it's our fault

2) China now has proof that the pilot of the US plane deliberately killed their pilot

3) China puts them on trial, punishment for attacking a member of the Chinese Air Force, execution.

4) With or without the return of the 24 hostages, the US introduces trade sanctions. China's nearly entire economy has relied upon the product the US buys from them. Without our money, they are nothing but another third world country. We turn our money to South America where we can get the same stuff for a few cents more.

5) Taiwan received 4 Aegis Cruiser ships via the US, leaving mainland China with a weaker Navy than Taiwan, plus a now weaker economy.

6) China doesn't get the 2008 Olympics, missing out on several hundred million $'s

my $0.02

 

[tigger80]

Man the US spy plane wasn't even over the the mainland of china. They were on some dinky little island off of china. China is just being a pain but if that happen to us we would want some sort of apology. Yea China gov't is using this for propaganda to stir up missing nationalism they have i guess. All this will die out eventually and the US hostages will be returned.

 

[johneetrash]

the US plane wasnt a spy plane, it was a surveillance plane... this is quoted from my friend from another board
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However the EP-3 is a conceptually a vastly different plane. First of all, it is not actually a covert SPY plane. It is an electronic surveillance plane. The difference is subtle but very important, and very distorted in much of the media. It is a very slow flying, propeller driven plane that monitors electronic transmissions at a very high altitude. Its technology is not based on stealth, or speed, and is not meant for deep intrusions into enemy airspace