Can someone explain black holes to me please?
- Thread starter knifemyglitter
- Start date
Interesting new idea about black holes:
http://www.quantumbiocommunication.com/...ck-holes-and-dark-matter-the-same.html
http://www.quantumbiocommunication.com/...ck-holes-and-dark-matter-the-same.html
I'm no expert, but I'm quite interested and where's what I've gleaned:
We know that gravity increases with mass and we know the equations that govern this.
We also know how much force protons and electrons can stand up against before they get crushed together into neutrons (when a massive star goes supernova the core pressure exceedes this and a neutron-only star is left behind.)
Well, neutrons can only take so much pressure before they are crushed together. I believe this is called "neutron degeneracy."
If you take the gravity that is present by nature of the amount of mass of super-massive stars and run the numbers, it exceede's the force that neutrons can hold themselves up against and they crush down into a single point.
Despite being crushed together into a single point, the mass and hence amount of gravity of all of that mass remains the same. But now it's in such a compressed space that it's escape velocity is faster than the speed of light. Hence it theoretically looks like a black hold in space (no light is coming out of this crush of matter.)
The sphere where the pull of gravity is so strong that light can't escape if what I remember reading is correct is on the order of the size of a small star up to the size of Earth's orbit around the sun depending on how much mass is in the black hole. So on cosmic scales they aren't that big themselves.
Einstein theorized that gravity was a bending of space and that was later proven when a star was observed in a different location in the sky during an eclipse. Our Sun's gravity had bent the stars light (the effect can be somewhat inaccurately compared to seeing distortions in images as heat rises off of the street during a hot summer day.)
Black hole's gravity is so intense that just beyind the sphere where light can escape, is probably an area where the stars look all distorted and smeared around (by an effect called gravitational lensing.)
Other than their mass and rate at which they are spinning black holes have no other defining characteristics - size aside they are all similar because they have not characteristcs other than their mass (which directly affects their size and pull) and their spin. I think Steven Hawking was the one who coined the phrase "black holes have no hair" meaning they are all alike.
When matter gets pulled into a black hole, it is pulled with such intensity that as the particles slame into each other they become super heated. As a result black holes are surrounded by spheres or disks of super-heated matter which puts off a lot of radiation. That is a telltale sign of a black hole (at least one that is near other matter.) As it sucks more mass in, it grows by that very amount.
Most galaxies are thought to be anchored by a central black hole.
One theory says that black holes evaporate over rediculous amounts of time. In the quantum world photon and anti-photon pairs can spontaneously pop into existence out of the blue. As long as it's for an unimaginably small time scale the universe can violate the law of conservation of energy and mass this way. These photon - anti-photon pairs immidately annihilate each other and vanish. It was theorized by Steven Hawking that as this happens around the perimiter of a black hole (the event horizon) that one of the photon - anti-photon pair can get sucked into the black hole and the other pops free off into space. If this happens the black hole is decreased by the amount of energy in the escaped photon. Over rediculous amounts of time the black hole can shrink down as it's energy is slowly carried away by escaped partner photons.
That's the stuff I find interesting off the top of my head. I also tried to mention some things that are different from the facts that you find mindlessly repeated all of the time.
We know that gravity increases with mass and we know the equations that govern this.
We also know how much force protons and electrons can stand up against before they get crushed together into neutrons (when a massive star goes supernova the core pressure exceedes this and a neutron-only star is left behind.)
Well, neutrons can only take so much pressure before they are crushed together. I believe this is called "neutron degeneracy."
If you take the gravity that is present by nature of the amount of mass of super-massive stars and run the numbers, it exceede's the force that neutrons can hold themselves up against and they crush down into a single point.
Despite being crushed together into a single point, the mass and hence amount of gravity of all of that mass remains the same. But now it's in such a compressed space that it's escape velocity is faster than the speed of light. Hence it theoretically looks like a black hold in space (no light is coming out of this crush of matter.)
The sphere where the pull of gravity is so strong that light can't escape if what I remember reading is correct is on the order of the size of a small star up to the size of Earth's orbit around the sun depending on how much mass is in the black hole. So on cosmic scales they aren't that big themselves.
Einstein theorized that gravity was a bending of space and that was later proven when a star was observed in a different location in the sky during an eclipse. Our Sun's gravity had bent the stars light (the effect can be somewhat inaccurately compared to seeing distortions in images as heat rises off of the street during a hot summer day.)
Black hole's gravity is so intense that just beyind the sphere where light can escape, is probably an area where the stars look all distorted and smeared around (by an effect called gravitational lensing.)
Other than their mass and rate at which they are spinning black holes have no other defining characteristics - size aside they are all similar because they have not characteristcs other than their mass (which directly affects their size and pull) and their spin. I think Steven Hawking was the one who coined the phrase "black holes have no hair" meaning they are all alike.
When matter gets pulled into a black hole, it is pulled with such intensity that as the particles slame into each other they become super heated. As a result black holes are surrounded by spheres or disks of super-heated matter which puts off a lot of radiation. That is a telltale sign of a black hole (at least one that is near other matter.) As it sucks more mass in, it grows by that very amount.
Most galaxies are thought to be anchored by a central black hole.
One theory says that black holes evaporate over rediculous amounts of time. In the quantum world photon and anti-photon pairs can spontaneously pop into existence out of the blue. As long as it's for an unimaginably small time scale the universe can violate the law of conservation of energy and mass this way. These photon - anti-photon pairs immidately annihilate each other and vanish. It was theorized by Steven Hawking that as this happens around the perimiter of a black hole (the event horizon) that one of the photon - anti-photon pair can get sucked into the black hole and the other pops free off into space. If this happens the black hole is decreased by the amount of energy in the escaped photon. Over rediculous amounts of time the black hole can shrink down as it's energy is slowly carried away by escaped partner photons.
That's the stuff I find interesting off the top of my head. I also tried to mention some things that are different from the facts that you find mindlessly repeated all of the time.
Sorry to go offtopic here, but I was wondering how exactly does compression of a star make it explode?
I know that at the end of a stars life it cant hold itsself up because of its bloated size and eventually as the star tries to fuse iron, its gets huge. But when it starts collapsing how exactly would this cause an explosion, of course the atoms would be crushed but is it like disel which under enough pressure explodes under its own accord?
I know that at the end of a stars life it cant hold itsself up because of its bloated size and eventually as the star tries to fuse iron, its gets huge. But when it starts collapsing how exactly would this cause an explosion, of course the atoms would be crushed but is it like disel which under enough pressure explodes under its own accord?
DrPizza
Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
In regard to "the size of a point", I recall reading somewhere during the past couple of days that, at least for the universe (big bang), initially it wasn't "infinitely small", it had as is now theorized (according to the article) a real size - on the order of a couple of planck lengths. Small, but not "infinitely small"
I wonder if the same applies to black holes?
I wonder if the same applies to black holes?
To make a long complex process short, when the core starts fusing iron the process consumes rather than produces energy (unlike fusing hydrogen.) Without the blast of energy from fusion to stand up against gravity and the rapid cooling caused by iron fusion the core shrinks really fast. The outter shell of the star then falls in and bounces off of the core causing the explosion if my understanding is correct.
I've heard that these massive pressures at this point in time are also responsible for the fusion that creates elements heavier than hydrogen such as gold. I'd imagine that they contribute to the proton-electron crush that produces a neutron star ...
Some recent theories say that a star destined to become a black hole can actually form a neutron star for a while which collapses a little later ... so I think the jury is out if black holes form at the point a star blows or afterwards ...
I just skimmed over that link. While technically informative that article is too technical to be useful to soemoen just learning the basics of a star's lifecycle IMHO.
I'm sorry. I didn't find it too technical to read, but you can skim to find the basic stuff. But good post on your behalf. I'm not too compelled to type everything out anymore, I've learned everything I know by reading this kind of material.
Go near a mirror, turn around, bend down and drop you pants with underwear, theres your black hole. 
JF060392
Senior member
- Apr 2, 2005
- 348
- 0
- 0
i have been studying astronomy for years yet i have seen the stars of andromeda gather around the blackhole in that galaxy. it is said that in the center of every galaxy lies a super giant blackhole, quenching its thirst by swallowing stars near the center of the milkyway.
In that case, Theoretically wouldn't that eventually suck up the whole galaxy and us due to its size growth?
Yea i watched that somewhere too.
Eventually all that will be left is hundreds of blackholes all devouring each other until who knows, this is where wild ideas come in. Like maybe after all that, its similar to a supernova on a much grander scale ,and the whole universe starts again ? who knows.....
Eventually all that will be left is hundreds of blackholes all devouring each other until who knows, this is where wild ideas come in. Like maybe after all that, its similar to a supernova on a much grander scale ,and the whole universe starts again ? who knows.....
re: the big bang, if the universe expands as far as it can then contracts (ala red dwarfs big crunch) into a tiny point, and that then causes another big bang - who's to say that this is the first universe?
couldnt there have been a limitless number of universes with different posibilities happening each and every time? next time, maybe there wont be an earth etc.
couldnt there have been a limitless number of universes with different posibilities happening each and every time? next time, maybe there wont be an earth etc.
Black holes have recently been re-interpreted in a string theory context. The details are highly technical but it's easily rephrased in "our" language:
Space is now thought to consist of three "extended" dimensions (the ones we can experience) and six or seven (depending on which theory is being discussed) "curled up" dimensions. These extra dimensions can't be examined by any known means and they are only there so that strings can vibrate with the necessary degrees of freedom to produce all known particles and forces.
Anyway, current thinking suggests that when a sphere in these "curled up" dimesions is enveloped by a "two-brane" (a two-dimensional string, if you will) the result is a black hole. This is a highly abstract phrasing of the "matter collapses to sufficient density" explanation; the trouble with string theory is that if ever you ask: "Can you explain XYZ?", the response will usually be: "Yes, but you wouldn't understand the answer."
An even more recent theory suggests that black holes might, in fact, be elementary particles. A black hole electron has already been proposed.
By far the best popular science book on his subject is Greene's "The Elegant Universe". Some horrendous mathematical concepts are explained in simple, non-patronizing metaphors for the rest of us.
Space is now thought to consist of three "extended" dimensions (the ones we can experience) and six or seven (depending on which theory is being discussed) "curled up" dimensions. These extra dimensions can't be examined by any known means and they are only there so that strings can vibrate with the necessary degrees of freedom to produce all known particles and forces.
Anyway, current thinking suggests that when a sphere in these "curled up" dimesions is enveloped by a "two-brane" (a two-dimensional string, if you will) the result is a black hole. This is a highly abstract phrasing of the "matter collapses to sufficient density" explanation; the trouble with string theory is that if ever you ask: "Can you explain XYZ?", the response will usually be: "Yes, but you wouldn't understand the answer."
An even more recent theory suggests that black holes might, in fact, be elementary particles. A black hole electron has already been proposed.
By far the best popular science book on his subject is Greene's "The Elegant Universe". Some horrendous mathematical concepts are explained in simple, non-patronizing metaphors for the rest of us.
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