Can I use an unsupported cpu which is supported after a bios update

blackrain

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2005
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I just got a refurbished asus cusl2 and used an old cpu and memory (that used to work). I can't get it to boot as described here:

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=27&threadid=1589771&enterthread=y

I have another cpu but it is a 1 ghz celeron which is only supported after the latest bios update. Is there anyway to use the 1 ghz to test and see if the cpu is the problem...and also to use it safely until I can do the update?
 

xsilver

Senior member
Aug 9, 2001
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no you cant run a cpu that is not currently supported by the bios -- it simply wont boot
and from your last post, yes, removing the battery and unplugging the sysem is the same as resetting the bios

the only other thing I can think of is if the FSB is set correctly (@66mhz for a celeron 400 ) but you say its jumperless so ....... dunno
when it tries to boot, the possible stages are
beeping nose == bad ram
no post = either CPU/mobo/PSU/video
out of those 4, the PSU and mobo are the most likly things to die
your 300w PSU should be ok...... leaves only the mobo
 

bjc112

Lifer
Dec 23, 2000
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You don't need multiple threads on the same issue.

Why not flash the BIOS and use the 1ghz CPU?
 

blackrain

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Feb 15, 2005
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Originally posted by: bjc112
You don't need multiple threads on the same issue.

Why not flash the BIOS and use the 1ghz CPU?



Well it's kind of a separate issue...someone looking for the same answer to the same question wouln't find it under my original post.

How can I flash the bios if I can't POST??
 

bluestrobe

Platinum Member
Aug 15, 2004
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Most boards I know of from that era will run off of unsupported processors, they just underclock the processor to the maximum speed allowed by the BIOS at that time.
 

blackrain

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Feb 15, 2005
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Originally posted by: bluestrobe
Most boards I know of from that era will run off of unsupported processors, they just underclock the processor to the maximum speed allowed by the BIOS at that time.

That was the answer I was looking for. Are you sure about this though? I don't want to blow anything. If anyone else can confirm this I can give it a try

xsilver doesn't seem to agree.
 

blackrain

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Feb 15, 2005
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Originally posted by: AnnihilatorX
Flash the BIOS using your old celeron 400 then use the celeron 1Ghz after flashing

I think people aren't understanding that the pc does not POST. Monitor doesn't come on. There's no beeps. Nothing. So how am I supposed to flash the bios?
 

vailr

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Some bioses include a CPU cooling fan detect switch. If no fan is connected, then the bootup is halted.
Try another power supply, and/or check that the memory and video card are properly seated.
 

MobiusPizza

Platinum Member
Apr 23, 2004
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Originally posted by: blackrain
Originally posted by: AnnihilatorX
Flash the BIOS using your old celeron 400 then use the celeron 1Ghz after flashing

I think people aren't understanding that the pc does not POST. Monitor doesn't come on. There's no beeps. Nothing. So how am I supposed to flash the bios?

Your thread is confusing. I see that you wanna use a 1Ghz Celeron to test whether your 400Mhz Celeron is working. It shouldn't need a BIOS update if that's the case.
 

bjc112

Lifer
Dec 23, 2000
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Originally posted by: blackrain
Originally posted by: AnnihilatorX
Flash the BIOS using your old celeron 400 then use the celeron 1Ghz after flashing

I think people aren't understanding that the pc does not POST. Monitor doesn't come on. There's no beeps. Nothing. So how am I supposed to flash the bios?


That's with the 1ghz CPU though, right?

 

blackrain

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2005
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I have a 400 mhz celeron cpu in their now. The pc doesn't boot. The only other celeron cpu that I have is a 1 GHz. With the original bios, there is no support for a 1 Ghz. Unfortunately, I don't know the history of this board...I bought it refurbished from an online seller. So I don't know what version BIOS is on there. Since I can't boot (POST) with the 400 mhz cpu, I can't flash the bios (right????) Therefore, I am asking whether i can use the 1 Ghz to try and boot the pc and see if the 400 mhz cpu is the problem. Since the 1 ghz is unsupported by the original bios, I am worried I will do some damage somewhere if the original bios version is on there.

I hope this is clear now
 

blackrain

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Feb 15, 2005
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Originally posted by: vailr
Some bioses include a CPU cooling fan detect switch. If no fan is connected, then the bootup is halted.
Try another power supply, and/or check that the memory and video card are properly seated.



Already reseated the cpu and memory. Video is onboard. Also tried a separate pci card that I know works.

Fan is connected....all fans in the system are running when I turn the pc on.

Since the board LED turns on when I flip the psu switch, I think that means the board is getting power. BY the way, it's brand new antec psu. I doubt the psu is the problem.
 

blackrain

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Feb 15, 2005
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Originally posted by: AnnihilatorX
Originally posted by: blackrain
Originally posted by: AnnihilatorX
Flash the BIOS using your old celeron 400 then use the celeron 1Ghz after flashing

I think people aren't understanding that the pc does not POST. Monitor doesn't come on. There's no beeps. Nothing. So how am I supposed to flash the bios?

Your thread is confusing. I see that you wanna use a 1Ghz Celeron to test whether your 400Mhz Celeron is working. It shouldn't need a BIOS update if that's the case.

Well, if you look at the asus website, it says that I need the 1007 bios update for support for a celeron 1000 on the Asus CUSL2 board. I don't know the history of this board. I don;t know what bios version is currently on there. Let's say that the original bios version is on there. Therefore, celeron 1 ghz is not supported. So why do you say that a BIOS update is not needed if I want to use the 1 Ghz celeron?
 

MrRobercik

Member
Oct 27, 2003
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He is saying that if you try to use the 1 GHZ before BIOS update, it may either underclock the processor and work under lower clock speed or it will just not boot.
Either way you should be OK to try your 1 GHZ processor.
 

MobiusPizza

Platinum Member
Apr 23, 2004
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Thanks MrRobercik. Whether a CPU can "run" on a motherboard is mostly determined by its architecture. If the same architecture is used; there shouldn't be any problem. In your case the CPU might be underclocked; but it should be at least able to "run"
 

blackrain

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Feb 15, 2005
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Okay I see...I was just worried that the cpu would blow the board or something, or the cpu would go bad. Someone else has said the same thing as you earlier in the thread. Has anyone actually tried this before? I'de rather hear from someone that they actually tried this rather than just hearing theory ("it should work" doesn't make me feel confident)
 

MobiusPizza

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Apr 23, 2004
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I can garantee with my life, given your motherboard is not defective, there's no way your CPU would break
If they are pin compatible, their pins have the same function. There's not a single chance your system is gonna break. No way

The worst case scenario is your motherboard won't recognise the CPU; But it is not gonna damage the CPU or itself

Ah also, many people upgrade their computer by putting a higher clocked CPU of the same architecture. I have never ever heard any upgrade of that sort requiring a BIOS update; Never heard a BIOS have "clockspeed limit". In your case maybe ASUS didn't foresee 1Ghz Celeron ever comes out. But I don't think they program their BIOS to destroy one by blowing it up if their motherboard detects one.

In any case if your are still worried; Check the voltage rating on both your CPU and the motherboard
 

blackrain

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Feb 15, 2005
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Originally posted by: AnnihilatorX
In any case if your are still worried; Check the voltage rating on both your CPU and the motherboard

How do I do that out of curiosity?

I have a celeron 1 ghz (0.18 micron) and an asus CUSL2 board

 

Ze Mad Doktor

Banned
Dec 9, 2004
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Just to back this up, Intel locks the multiplier on their processors. So, no matter what the motherboard tries to set the processor up as, it will use a multiplier of 7.5 as 7.5x133MHz bus = 1GHz

So let us say the motherboard doesn't identify the processor, there is no possible way it will overclock it as 133 was the highest bus speed used for that line of processors. you will either end up with it running at 1GHz, 750MHz, or possibly 500MHz if that motherboard has a 66MHz bus speed. The latter may be likely as motherboards which cannot identify the CPU will clock it at the lowest possible speed assuming their architectures are compatible.

You might want to check your memory though, if it was paired with the Celly 400 it might only be PC100 in which case there is a chance it won't work with a 1GHz processor if it can't overclock to 133.

A similar situation to this is one which I had with my previous system (now my file server). There is a line of Athlon processors designed specifically for laptops, the Athlon XP Mobile. They use the exact same architecture as the regular Athlon XP, the only difference being they run at a lower voltage (this in turn reduces heat which is good for a laptop). However, people discovered that if you cranked the voltage up to what it would be on a regular XP you could get really good overclocks.

The point is, as these chips were only really designed to be used in laptops, motherboard manufacturers did not write the identifying info into the BIOS. So, when I installed the chip in my Abit NF7-S motherboard and booted, it booted as "Unknown CPU @ 800MHz." That is exactly what it says.

In actuality, the processor was a 1.83GHz processor. However, motherboard manufacturers do realize that processors will change after the production of the motherboard. So in their wisdom when a motherboard does not identify a processor it will use the lowest possible bus speed. In the case of this CPU it also does not have a locked clock multiplier so the motherboard automatically set it to the lowest possible as well. The result is that it booted the processor at 800MHz even though it had no idea what processor it was. I was then able to go into the BIOS and change the settings to what they really were and more (2.4GHz in the end, 2.5 wasn't stable)

I hope this little story will help you to understand that despite the fact that a motherboard may not know what a CPU is, that does not necessarily mean it cannot run it. Remember that BIOS is only software. For your motherboard to be able to run it has to be built into the hardware so no matter what BIOS you have it has the ability to run the processor.
 

Ze Mad Doktor

Banned
Dec 9, 2004
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OK and after doing some research I now have the answer as to why Asus says your motherboard must have that BIOS for the CPU.

Because...drum roll

The Soft Menu in previous BIOS versions the highest multiplier for selection is 7. However, as your processor is locked at 7.5 it will overrule the motherboard and use the 7.5 multiplier.

So really, there is no problem at all. Man all this Celeron stuff reminded me of my good ol' Celeron 300A. Those were the days. Intel's fastest available processor was a PII 450 and I had a Celeron running at 450. I was top of the line!!!!!