Can I use a 4GB Video Card in Windows XP 32bit with 4GB System RAM

[saberasus007]

Dear Reader or Responder,

First I want to thank you for your time spent reading/responding to this message.

Here is the situation. I am a very experienced computer user.

I run both Windows 7 Pro 64bit and Windows XP Service Pack 3 32 bit edition (they are on different hot swap drives). I only use Windows XP to run software and games that will not work in Windows 7 64bit. Otherwise Windows XP is not my primary operating system.

The problem deals with memory and the address space XP handles in 32bit. I have always been informed about the memory limitations of a 32bit OS. I currently run 8 GB of memory (RAM) on my motherboard. I am aware that 4GB is the maximum the OS can see and use.

I have decided to replace my EVGA 580 1.5GB video card with a brand new EVGA 770 4GB video card. According to the website for EVGA, Asus, and several other 3rd party board makers and Nvidia (who provides a driver for XP) the 4GB video card will work in Windows 32 bit and 64bit version of the OS. I currently run the Windows XP Home Edition version.

Now I have always known that there is a limitation of XP in how much memory can be addressed. That amount is the approx 4GB of RAM minus the Graphics Card memory. So with a 1.5GB video card, that means you won't be able to have more than ~2.5 GB of memory available to the operating system (before other drivers and software loaded at the start of the OS and then of course programs you run).

I am an experienced user and so this has me baffled and I can not find any tech/support/briefs on the issues of how a 4GB video card can be used in a 32 bit edition OS that can only access 4GB of memory no matter how much memory (RAM) is in the system. With all the companies saying their 4GB card can be used in Windows XP 32bit, I don't see how, since 4GB - 4GB = 0GB, that would mean Windows XP should not be able to run as their is no space left for addressable memory.

Can anyone confirm how a 4GB video card will work in Windows XP Service Pack 3 32bit with 8GB of RAM? Is there some sort of hardware/software/driver/switch/command that disables a portion of the video card memory so Windows XP can run? How or does a 4GB card actually run in Windows XP and more importantly can Windows XP run? I really can use your expert advice and help in resolving this issue.

Just a reminder, XP is on its own hard drive (I used a Hard Drive Swappable Bay, that allows me to run XP and 7 on seperate drives. Xp is only used to run software and yes, no lying, games that will not operate properly in the Windows 7 64bit Pro edition and will not work or needs things that the Windows XP mode for Windows 7 can't provide.

Please help as I have a nice brand new EVGA 4GB 770 FTW video card I bought at an unbeatable price and would love to keep it.

Thanks you once again for your time in reading/responding to this message.

 

[Z15CAM]

If you have the XP driver for the card, I would just plug it in the slot, boot and see what happens.

 

[redhotiron2004]

Just put the graphic card in the slot. Install the XP drivers and I am sure it would run pretty well. Although, all memory won't show up. I guess that XP would adjust the graphic memory as needed or something like turbo memory or cache if needed.
If you are not playing games then you shouldn't worry about the ram issue as no legacy app can use that much ram anyways.

Also, there are tweaks for enabling the extra ram over 4GB in windows XP 32bit as well. Search google, there are plenty of explanations on how to do that.

 

[lamedude]

Only a fraction of video RAM gets mapped (256-512MB IIRC) so it shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Schmide]

Video memory has nothing to do with the 32bit address space. On a 32bit system, and for most programs running on a 64bit environment, video memory is addressed by a banked window in the upper 3-4gb space. If you go to nVidia's site you will see that there is a 32bit driver for xp.

 

[saberasus007]

Here is an example of what magazines from PC World, PC Magazine, PC Gamer, Maximum PC and websites have always said in regards to Windows 32bit (and why you want to use a 64bit OS)

"The limitation isn't on memory at all, it's on the address space. Things like video card memory need to be addressable, as do many other peripherals (though their usage of address space is generally small). Unfortunately for 32-bit systems, your video card memory falls into this category, if it were addressed separately DMA wouldn't work and there'd be no fast way to transfer texture/polygon/shader/etc. data to it.

If you have 2x1GB of video memory, that address space will not be usable for system RAM (under Windows) in a 32-bit system."

 

[bystander36]

There used to be special programs for servers, that created something like pages, that allowed 32-bit OS's to access more than 4Gb of RAM and disk space. It required special software for it to work, and I do not believe any games were written to do this, as this was primarily a server thing.

As far as a 4Gb card goes...Nvidia may not allow it to work, but they have a program that adjust registry entries, called Coolbits. Coolbits allows you to adjust the amount of VRAM the system thinks you have. If you run into an issue, look up Coolbits to see if it can be adjusted.

 

[Schmide]

Here is an example of what magazines from PC World, PC Magazine, PC Gamer, Maximum PC and websites have always said in regards to Windows 32bit (and why you want to use a 64bit OS)

"The limitation isn't on memory at all, it's on the address space. Things like video card memory need to be addressable, as do many other peripherals (though their usage of address space is generally small). Unfortunately for 32-bit systems, your video card memory falls into this category, if it were addressed separately DMA wouldn't work and there'd be no fast way to transfer texture/polygon/shader/etc. data to it.

If you have 2x1GB of video memory, that address space will not be usable for system RAM (under Windows) in a 32-bit system."

WTF are you saying that's from PC World, PC Magazine, PC Gamer, Maximum PC??

You quoted a dude named keenan on the hard forum post circa 2009?

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1451424

I question what you're saying now!!!

It's not an issue and will never be an issue!!!

 

[ShintaiDK]

Only a fraction of video RAM gets mapped (256-512MB IIRC) so it shouldn't be a problem.

^^ This.

 

[ejjpi]

on 32bit operating systems (unless PAE is enabled) you can have only 3gb of ram max (well you can install as much as you want but in the end it will always be 3gb recognized due to a physical limit), with 64bit you can have as much ram as you want

 

[ShintaiDK]

on 32bit operating systems you can have only 3gb of ram max (well you can install as much as you want but in the end it will always be 3gb recognized due to a physical limit), with 64bit you can have as much ram as you want

Not entirely true. You can use PAE(36bit memory addressing) features. For example 32bit Windows server versions support up to 64GB. But an application can max use 3GB, unless AWE is used. However that implies a performance penalty.

 

[ejjpi]

Not entirely true. You can use PAE(36bit memory addressing) features. For example 32bit Windows server versions support up to 64GB. But an application can max use 3GB, unless AWE is used. However that implies a performance penalty.

true, but 3d starter stated that he's using windows XP, not a server version of the OS.

 

[ShintaiDK]

true, but 3d starter stated that he's using windows XP, not a server version of the OS.

Then you should say XP, and not generalize to 32bit OSes

XP is also artificially limited to 4GB. It still supports PAE and device mapping can be done in the 36bit area. Same applies for 32bit Vista, Windows 7 and Windows 8.x.

 

[ejjpi]

Then you should say XP, and not generalize to 32bit OSes

fixed

 

[zir_blazer]

BTW, you can actually take advantage of >3.x GB of RAM with WXP 32 Bits if you use PAE and a RAMDisk. WXP SP2+ refuses to see directly the extra RAM that it can address with PAE due some sort of compatibility mode with Drivers which was added on SP1, if I recall correctly. The first release of WXP was actually able to use PAE to its full extend like a Server version - recall seeing some My PC screenshots with it seeing a full 4 GB, which is impossible without PAE.
You can "force" WXP to use that RAM if you put the Pagefile into the RAMDisk. Yes, if you search Post about me talking the Pagefile, you will see me saying than its a stupid idea, but for WXP its actually a good workaround. According to Task Manager, I managed to have 6-8 GB worth of open applications which a high degree of fluidity that with the Pagefile on a HD would be a disk trashing fest rendering the computer unusable.

 

[nenforcer]

It should probably still work just with a reduced frame buffer <= 2GB. Most modern PC games using only DirectX 10/11 no longer support XP (obviously).

The hardware in my PC sig is too slow to run any 2006-2007 or later PC game even if it does support DirectX 9.

With extended support ending in just a couple of months for XP do you still really want to dual boot?

 

[Schmide]

Arrrrrrrgggggh

Going to clear up a few things that keep getting said.

All 32bit programs use as banked buffer for access to video memory in the upper 3-4gb area. This includes any 32bit program running in compatibility mode on a 64bit system. Which is most programs!!! (90+%) We are only now seeing true 64bit games (Battlefield 4).

PAE (Physical Address Extension) with AWE (Address Windowing Extensions) works much the same as a banked frame buffer. Page tables are manipulated such that certain memory areas point to outside the 4gb space. The program still has to window its memory access and call up which outside piece of memory is to reside within the 32bit space at any particular time. This is not the same as putting your page table in a ramdisk as it does not have to swap the pages.