Can I trust the new OCZ?

[Pheran]

Some years back I had bad experiences with OCZ SSD failures, plus they pulled the "bait and switch" changing out flash to a newer, poorer performing generation in one of their product lines without changing the model number. After that I wrote them off as a company and never bought any OCZ products again.

Now, years later, I'm seeing very attractive pricing on their ARC SSDs and I understand the company has completely changed hands/ownership since then? Obviously, I'm once bitten, twice shy at this point. Are these products worth looking at and has the company turned itself around since then?

Thanks.

 

[Blain]

Is "very attractive pricing" what hooked you on OCZ in the past?

 

[Charlie98]

Toshiba took over OCZ's SSD line... certainly they have an uphill battle as far as shedding the poor image OCZ left them.

TBH, I've not seen loads of complaints against the newer SSDs, but that just may be because it's a far lower sample rate (units in use) vs Samsung or Crucial, etc... but maybe Toshiba has turned it around.

I would trust OCZ just like I trust Samsung, Crucial, Intel, Kingston, and pre-Toshiba OCZ SSDs... I use them confidently but back up the data I have on them religiously.

As far as buying one... what is the price/performance/warranty ratio vs everyone else's offerings? ...just like HDD's.

 

[Cerb]

OCZ is now owned by Toshiba. Personally, I don't get why Toshiba didn't use their connections, but replace the name, given their reputation (IE, improve "Toshiba"'s western retail presence, and get rid of the OCZ name).

I might use them, but I wouldn't trust them, just yet.

 

[Pheran]

OCZ is now owned by Toshiba. Personally, I don't get why Toshiba didn't use their connections, but replace the name, given their reputation (IE, improve "Toshiba"'s western retail presence, and get rid of the OCZ name).

That boggles me a bit too. I can only chalk it up to foolish company execs who actually thought "OCZ" was still a good brand at that point.

 

[ronbo613]

I owned a Vertex 2, then a replacement Vertex 2 and a replacement for the replacement Vertex 2; none of them worked for more than a couple weeks. OCZ customer service; where you had to beg for an RMA on their forums while the sponsored fanboi shills ridiculed you, was some of the worst I have ever experienced.

With so many other quality SSD drives from reputable brand name companies available at very reasonable prices, OCZ drives would be near the bottom of the list for me. Toshiba may be able to rebuild a customer base with new buyers who have never owned or heard of OCZ, but the SSD market is a lot more competitive than it was a few years ago.

Not sure why Toshiba didn't just come out with their own line SSD drives.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Not sure why Toshiba didn't just come out with their own line SSD drives.

They did.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2070...d-delivers-top-performance-at-a-discount.html

 

[Elixer]

The whole OCZ debacle was because they were pretty much the 1st company to bring the sandforce controller to the masses at much cheaper prices.
The fault was mainly with the controller, the firmware wasn't mature enough.

Now, this is a thing of the past, and there is very little reason not to go with a OCZ branded Toshiba device. They are using Toshiba's NAND, and so, fall in with the rest of the players like Sammy, crucial, and the rest that use their own NAND.

Toshiba has been supplying apple and other OEMs SSD for a long time.

Having said that, I did have a toshiba branded SSD that failed on me, BUT, I also had a sammy 830 fail on me, and the RMA'ed unit fail on me as well.
And last week, my vertex 2 (which was replaced twice) finally (after about 2 years of constant use) went into panic mode on me and I can't get it out of that mode. Anyone know how to rescue the device once both the red & green LEDs go on ?


So, bottom line is, get whatever you want, just make backups.

 

[ronbo613]

And last week, my vertex 2 (which was replaced twice) finally (after about 2 years of constant use) went into panic mode on me and I can't get it out of that mode. Anyone know how to rescue the device once both the red & green LEDs go on ?

That happened to one of the Vertex 2 drives I had. If I recall correctly, the only solution was to RMA. At least you got your money's worth out of it.

 

[Phynaz]

Maybe you can, maybe you can't. But with so many options out there why would you take the risk?

 

[Elixer]

Speaking of OCZ & Toshiba... http://www.anandtech.com/show/8880/discussion-with-ocz-ceo-ralph-schmitt for those of you that didn't read this yet.

 

[Meghan54]

Well, maybe this 3rd iteration of OCZ will pan out better than the last two "versions" of the company. But it'll take years of being better before I'll trust buying any product labeled OCZ. As said before, too many other quality choices out there.

 

[ocztony]

OCZ is VERY different now, RMA rate is pretty much under 1%, we are selling thousands of drives (just not to you guys who post on the AT forum it seems) so the ratio is where it needs to be to have some trust.

I have worked for OCZ since there were just 6 employees to over 600...to where we are now with OCZ storage solutions, i can honestly say you should not tar the new incarnation of OCZ with the same brush you did the old...its seriously different now at the company, plus we have the best nand to hand along with proven controllers and FW which we have control over.

We has issues with nand for a long time, having to buy spot market did not ensure the highest quality....we do NOT have this issue any more. Regards the sandforce drives, we had no control over FW, Sandforce however did help us and I personally have no complaints BUT I much prefer just dropping an email or phone call to our head of FW now and chatting about any minor issues we find...plus turn around is much faster and testing way more thorough.

Im not going to try to win you over, haters will always be haters, i just ask you do recognise the new OCZ is way different to the old....Ryan has gone, the issues we had before are gone, focus is intense and the customers as shown with Shield warranty do come first.

Barefoot3 has been an awesome controller, not the best for mobile we admit, but for performance and especially sustained performance its hard to beat.

Have an open mind too OCZ Storage Solutions...forget OCZ Technology...its long gone.

 

[ronbo613]

OCZ is VERY different now, RMA rate is pretty much under 1%, we are selling thousands of drives (just not to you guys who post on the AT forum it seems) so the ratio is where it needs to be to have some trust.

I have worked for OCZ since there were just 6 employees to over 600...to where we are now with OCZ storage solutions, i can honestly say you should not tar the new incarnation of OCZ with the same brush you did the old...its seriously different now at the company, plus we have the best nand to hand along with proven controllers and FW which we have control over.

We has issues with nand for a long time, having to buy spot market did not ensure the highest quality....we do NOT have this issue any more. Regards the sandforce drives, we had no control over FW, Sandforce however did help us and I personally have no complaints BUT I much prefer just dropping an email or phone call to our head of FW now and chatting about any minor issues we find...plus turn around is much faster and testing way more thorough.

Im not going to try to win you over, haters will always be haters, i just ask you do recognise the new OCZ is way different to the old....Ryan has gone, the issues we had before are gone, focus is intense and the customers as shown with Shield warranty do come first.

Barefoot3 has been an awesome controller, not the best for mobile we admit, but for performance and especially sustained performance its hard to beat.

Have an open mind too OCZ Storage Solutions...forget OCZ Technology...its long gone.

It's like 2007 all over again! All that is needed is the other guy from OCZ(robert something?) to tell everyone how wrong they were about OCZ SSD drives.

ocztony, you can cram that "haters gonna hate" routine. OCZ sold me a bad SSD then sent me two more defective replacements while berating me for my requests for customer service on your shill-laden forum. OCZ SSD drives sucked, their customer service sucked and if you worked for them, well, do the math.

 

[Ketchup]

I would never buy anything with the OCZ name on it period. How many times has OCZ been "a whole new company"? I don't care if they "were the first to do this" or had pricing "for the masses," a name that puts out junk over and over and doesn't take care of customers needs to die.

 

[ocztony]

I'm sorry to hear you had a bad experience Ronbo613, we obviously failed you a ways back which is not a good thing.

You and Ketchup really are still thinking we are the old OCZ...we are not, you however quite rightly have strong opinions and I wish you well with what ever hardware you buy from who ever you choose.

I do believe we will start to win over people, im right now the only person at OCZ (apart from Jess in marketing) who has seen all the ups and downs, and i see we are on a slow slog back up right now.

Ketchup, I wanted OCZ to have a name change, we are not the same company, however the powers that be decided to keep the brand (they have their reasons) Its a shame you do not appreciate this (brand association is strong either good or bad i know)

I will be sticking around the AT forum, some support staff will also be dropping in if they see anyone having any issues.

 

[jacktesterson]

I've owned probably a dozen OCZ SSD's over the years in various builds. Haven't had one die yet. Always been fast and always got firmware updates.

 

[samboy]

My 2cents worth.......

It's much easier to keep a customer than get back ones that you have lost. The water is already over the dam on this front.

A company takeover is generally not some magic wand that suddenly changes everything and solves all problems. Typically the company is run the same way; with changes introduced slowly (i.e. so you don't break the asset you just purchased! I expect that customer service would be one of the first things that would be integrated into Toshiba processes). As such, I have to admit that I'm very skeptical that this is suddenly a very different company (from and R&D perspective); although the points on better access to NAND are well taken. I expect everything is done in the same buildings; with many of the same people (it usually doesn't make sense to buy a company and fire all the talent)

That said, being a lost customer; I see no compelling reason to "come back" given that there are numerous quality SSD drives available today and good price points.
I expect that many previous customers will be in the same boat.

 

[Elixer]

I have worked for OCZ since there were just 6 employees to over 600...to where we are now with OCZ storage solutions, i can honestly say you should not tar the new incarnation of OCZ with the same brush you did the old...its seriously different now at the company, plus we have the best nand to hand along with proven controllers and FW which we have control over.

Hey, I recall a Tony from the OCZ forums, handled my RMA (twice) for the Vertex 2.

Can you shed some light on a way to de-brick a Vertex 2 that has both red & green LEDs on ?

That said, being a lost customer; I see no compelling reason to "come back" given that there are numerous quality SSD drives available today and good price points.
I expect that many previous customers will be in the same boat.

There is no compelling reason NOT to try a Toshiba SSD with the OCZ name on it.
As I already stated, the only fault of OCZ was using firmware that hasn't matured yet. Other than that, they had a excellent RMA process the times I had to use it. Sure, I wasn't happy about it, but, that was back then.

Now, they have different controllers, using Toshiba NAND, and have a much better Q&A deparment.

I had a Samsung that died on me, then their RMA also died on me. The worst part about this is, their RMA experience is horrible. This is why I will not be getting another Samsung.

 

[ryderOCZ]

Can you shed some light on a way to de-brick a Vertex 2 that has both red & green LEDs on ?

There is no end user accessible method for this, unfortunately.

 

[Pheran]

As I already stated, the only fault of OCZ was using firmware that hasn't matured yet.

They also replaced the flash in one model with smaller/slower flash without changing the model number, that was pretty skeezy - though they did eventually offer some kind of compensation for that. They aren't the only ones however, Kingston pulled exactly the same crap about a year ago.

 

[Elixer]

They also replaced the flash in one model with smaller/slower flash without changing the model number, that was pretty skeezy - though they did eventually offer some kind of compensation for that. They aren't the only ones however, Kingston pulled exactly the same crap about a year ago.

Oh right, I recall that as well, that was going from 25nm NAND to something smaller, and then, they sold the devices listing more NAND capacity than what they had. But, yeah, they did end up fixing this as well.

Kingston, Crucial (and others) have all lied about specs/features, and it is annoying.
This is also why when a review site reviews things, they should be looking out for the consumer, not the OEM in question, but, that don't help the switch to slower NAND that was made after the review. Bah!

 

[ocztony]

The mistake made was due to a manufacturing change made by Intel, with them keeping the choice cuts for themselves and pushing all 3rd party customers onto the new nand. Yes the drives were slightly smaller, the drives were near enough the same speed within a FW update and we looked after any customer who felt hard done by for well over a year after changing to the new nand.

That said....that was OCZ Technology, not OCZ Storage Solutions...different company.

 

[ocztony]

My 2cents worth.......

It's much easier to keep a customer than get back ones that you have lost. The water is already over the dam on this front.

A company takeover is generally not some magic wand that suddenly changes everything and solves all problems. Typically the company is run the same way; with changes introduced slowly (i.e. so you don't break the asset you just purchased! I expect that customer service would be one of the first things that would be integrated into Toshiba processes). As such, I have to admit that I'm very skeptical that this is suddenly a very different company (from and R&D perspective); although the points on better access to NAND are well taken. I expect everything is done in the same buildings; with many of the same people (it usually doesn't make sense to buy a company and fire all the talent)

That said, being a lost customer; I see no compelling reason to "come back" given that there are numerous quality SSD drives available today and good price points.
I expect that many previous customers will be in the same boat.

I respect what you say, the main difference at storage solutions is near total eStaff and CEO change...thats whats made all the difference going forward, you will not have known this however. I do not regard you as a lost customer, i regard you as a potential new customer, ocz technology lost you as a customer, not ocz storage solutions.

 

[VirtualLarry]

OCZ is VERY different now, RMA rate is pretty much under 1%, we are selling thousands of drives (just not to you guys who post on the AT forum it seems) so the ratio is where it needs to be to have some trust.

Barefoot3 has been an awesome controller, not the best for mobile we admit, but for performance and especially sustained performance its hard to beat.

Have an open mind too OCZ Storage Solutions...forget OCZ Technology...its long gone.

Well, I wish you luck with the new venture. OCZ certainly made a name for themselves over the years... and not all good.

That said, I'm a fan of the Barefoot and Barefoot2 controllers, and I would like to try out the Barefoot3-based drives.

Part of the problem is that I'm rather price-sensitive, and the Vector 150 and 460 drives have never really been available "cheap", like the V300, and the various Crucial drives on perennial fire-sale as they phase out old versions. The Arc 100 looks to change that, being a bit more budget-minded. Early reviews of that drive on Newegg aren't so great though.

Anyways, I've purchased:
5 OCZ Agility 30GB (Barefoot)
4 OCZ Vertex 2 50GB refurb (SandForce Gen 1)
2 OCZ Vertex 2 (Maybe Agility 2) 90GB
3 OCZ Vertex Plus R2 120GB
2 OCZ Vertex Plus R2 240GB refurb (Barefoot 2)

The only one that died on me, was an Agility 30GB, and only because I was using a poor-quality PSU that came with the case. It fried the SSD, and damaged the mobo. So it wasn't the SSD's fault.

That, and I had to secure-erase one of the 240GB refurbs twice, after installing in a Foxconn NanoPC, because the heat (passive cooling) was causing the data on the SSD to go corrupt. After the second secure-erase, they did duty in a properly-cooled desktop machine without issue.

Edit: For reference, I've also purchased Intel and Crucial drives, and some A-Data and Kingston as well.
Edit: And a Mushkin. My only SandForce Gen2 SSD (besides the much-newer Kingston). It failed within a month.