Can I install Win98 and Win NT 4 on same hard drive without partition magic etc

[Overman]

Hey all...I'm starting to get into some of my Csci classes (changed from medical school a few months ago...so much more fun! and I wanted to try out different OS's.

I've done some half-*ss searching but can't seem to find anything on this.

Can I just split my hd into 2 partitions....install win98 on the first, and then Win NT on the second WITHOUT using any special utilites (partition magic/boot magic etc)?

I'm also interested in trying out Linux...but is there something about FAT32 that won't let me put it on a hard drive with Win98.

Can win98 just use the FAT32 on 1 of the partitions, and the other OS's use whatever file system they need on the other partitions?


Any help would be appreciated greatly!

 

[Ladi]

The easiest way to learn multiple OS's is separate systems, if you can afford it (you don't need separate monitors/keyboards/mice with remote control apps like VNC/pcanywhere or with KVM switches), if that helps you any). 98 is a good choice since there's a lot of end-user support to be done in it; NT is also good for many of the same reasons (and workstation will give you a lot of experience that can be useful when it gets to server, too); you may or may not want to get to linux since it's not necessary to know ALL operating systems...but it doesn't hurt to get a feel for it; you may want to get to 2K eventually as it's getting popular in both home and business environments (even pro can give you some useful server experience such as with IIS)

If you do want to multiboot 98/NT/linux on the same system, it's easiest (to build/deal with/recover from) if you format everything possible in FAT16. Create 2-3 partitions for 98, NT, and perhaps data...format them in FAT16 and leave the rest of your hd (for linux) unpartitioned/unformatted. Install 98 first on C:, then install NT on D:. At this point, NT's bootloader will give you an option between 98 and NT. When you install linux and decide to use LILO on your MBR, it will allow you to choose between 98, NT, and linux. Alternatively, NT and 98's install order can be reversed if you're using LILO (LILO will still allow you to boot all 3 OS's, but you won't be able to boot 98 from the NT boot menu).

You *could* use FAT32 for the 98 partition, but if you happen to need to get/change data/etc from that partition, you need special utilities from NT and/or a 98 bootdisk instead of any dos bootdisk. On the same note, you *could* use NTFS for NT, but you would have many of the same issues. It works, but I wouldn't recommend it initially from a learning standpoint and from the standpoint that when you're learning, it's very easy to mess up OS's and the easier recovery is possible, the easier your life is.

You may also want to look into using VMWare instead of creating a true multiboot.

~Ladi

 

[Overman]

Ladi,
Thanks so much for such an informative and detailed reply! I really appreciate the help! I don't really have the money to setup completely different systems, so I think I'm going to start with the multiple boot machine (unless you would like to donate a system to me for my learning

I just have a "few" more questions:

1) I have a Win98 Boot Disc that I've always loaded and used to format my hard drive. Is there a special line parameter that I can use with the Format c: command to specify my drive to be formatted in Fat16 verses Fat32?

2) Or, does running fdisk take care of that...i.e. after re-partitioning, I need to re-format the drive, and Win98 would automatically let me choose Fat16 or Fat32?

3)If I did use the Win98 boot disk, and then re-partition into 3 areas, can I just format 1 or 2 of the partitions? Or does the format command format all of the partitions at one time?

4) You stated "You *could* use FAT32 for the 98 partition, but if you happen to need to get/change data/etc from that partition, you need special utilities from NT and/or a 98 bootdisk instead of any dos bootdisk"

If I plan on having the 2 or 3 OS's on different partitions...when/why would I ever need to get/change data from other partitions? I ask, because I was just going to install the programs for each specific OS on their respective partitions.

Thanks again for the help!

 

[Rubicone]

To answer one of your questions regarding FAT 16. When you boot up and run FDISK you will get the message do you want to enable large disk support? Do not respond affirmatively to the question. Thereafter, when you delete and recreate your partitions they will be with the FAT 16 file system. Remember that FAT 16 if I remember correctly does not support partitions greater than 2 GB - so when creating your partitions make sure that you do not exceed that figure. Hope this helps and good luck.

 

[rommel]

enable fat from fdisk...it will ask you...you can partition one at a time and format and return to add an extended dos patition then create a logical partition inside the extended....that would give you your three partitions
format will only do one partition at a time
but each partition must be formatted in order for it to be seen and used by the OS
and you should use fat32...and i beleive that winNT's bootloader will recognize the 98 install and give you the option of which to run....atleast 2k does

 

[cmv]

edit: catch the two posts below this about nt 4.0 vs nt 5.0/windows 2000 & fat32

On a bare drive I would:

a) fdisk and make two partitions - 1st for 98, 2nd for NT.
b) format 1st as fat32 (so I wasn't limited to 2gb with fat16, having a bunch of 2gb partitions really sucks)
c) install 98 on 1st
d) reboot with NT media
e) format 2nd with NTFS (use FAT32 if you want to be able to see the NT partition from 98)
f) install NT
g) install apps

Note that with step f I've made it impossible to see the NT partition from Windows 98. I can still see the 98 partition from NT. If you aren't going to be doing video captured (making huge files) or heavy I/O than it would probably be a good idea to format the NT partition as FAT32 so you can see it from 98.

It's nice to be able to see the other operating systems partition because you might have a file your working on saved over there. It's a pain in the butt to have to reboot simply because a newer version of something is on the other operating systems partition and you can't see it.

EDIT: forgot you were interested in linux too...

Ok... This is a pain to explain but here we go - a lot of people have problems with Linux and dual boot systems when they use large hard drives. The problem is LILO (Linux Loader) wasn't able to find the kernel when it was past cylinder 1024 until recently. In you /etc/lilo.conf you'll need lba32 so it can find the kernel (if this makes no sense don't worry about it right now).

So if you install an older version of linux make 5 paritions with the 1st being 20mb (10-15mb if you're disk is small and every meg counts) and leave it bare for now. Install 98 on partition 2, NT on partition 3, and linux on partition 4 (but when install use partition 1 for /boot). Partition 5 is for your linux swap disk so make it 128mb (you can use less if you're pressed for space, say 64mb, but don't skip it!).

Why did we do the small #1 partition? The first partition will have /boot on it which will have the kernel. With the 1st partition being at the beginning of the disk we don't have to worry about being past the 1024 cylinder...

If this is your first time with linux I would really recommend that you use an easy to install version like Mandrake Linux. If you download the 7.2 ISO or a beta ISO (think 8.0 is in beta, not sure) you won't have to worry about all this cylinder crap... You will have to worry about it if you install Debian 2.2 (it can be worked around so it isn't impossible, just a couple extra steps).

Now did I confuse the hell out of you! It all sounds really complicated but once you get the central ideas it all makes sense. It's a good thing to learn all about so don't worry about wasting time (unless you're really short on time ).

 

[Rubicone]

Hey there CMV since when does Windows NT support FAT32? "it would probably be a good idea to format the NT partition as FAT32 so you can see it from 98."

 

[cmv]

NT 4.0 really doesn't support FAT32? You gotta be kidding me! Guess my memory of NT 4.0 is going (not that I'm missing it all that much)...

What we really need to know is if Overman is interested in NT 4.0 or NT 5.0 (aka Windows 2000).

My dual boot setup before was:

Windows 98SE (fat32)
Windows 2000 (ntfs)
Linux (RedHat 6.2) (ext2)

Now I'm just doing:

Windows 2000 (ntfs)
Debian GNU/Linux unstable (reiserfs)

I haven't used NT 4.0 for a long time...