Can Free Will and God exsist?

[Tab]

I don't think it can. If "god" knows everything, he knows what we are going to do. We can "beileve" we have opitions "A" "B" "C" "D" but in reality we will always choose "A" as this Is what God knows we are going to choose.

Am I missing something?

 

[3chordcharlie]

repost times a million

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[InfectedMushroom]

There's no god. But I hear some people have imaginary friends.

 

[kogase]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
repost times a million

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What isn't? What else are we going to talk about?

 

[yllus]

Absolutely.

There is no logical constraint barring humans to have free will just because some godly being may possess the power of prescience.

 

[MCWAR]

Why cant an internet forum exist without bored people figuring out a way to start a flame war? Get a job.

 

[raildogg]

Yes you are, god created man to be his partner on earth. He created a imperfect man and he or she doesn't interfere with our every day lives, at least thats my take on it. I don't know if god knows what our future will hold since I haven't met and talked to god, at least not yet.

By the way, there are dozens of threads out there debating about god and whether or not he exists and the topic of free will.

I think when people say free will, they probably imply complete moral liberty. Some people also believe that circumstances determine a man's thought process and his character development. God may be all knowing and have fore knowledge but there is no way anyone can prove that. I believe god does let you choose your own destiny, but again, god means differently to different people.

Free will and christianty might or might not totally coexist, but they don't really have to. I also believe that god is just. People also believe that god's law is perfect and should be followed as according to his wishes and there is no grey area. There is free will and man is able to make his choices as he chooses to but god does exist as well. At least to those of us with faith he does. Remember, god created an imperfect world full of imperfect men for a reason.

 

[StageLeft]

He knows because He can tell the future, but it doesn't mean you know. If I take a criminal who's been convicted of theft 100 times and I put him in a room with some money I _know_ he's going to steal it, but I still have to give him the option to do it or not.

 

[PatboyX]

Originally posted by: Tabb
I don't think it can. If "god" knows everything, he knows what we are going to do. We can "beileve" we have opitions "A" "B" "C" "D" but in reality we will always choose "A" as this Is what God knows we are going to choose.

Am I missing something?

well, if i believe that the universe is infinite...and i mean, really infinite. not just in one dimension, but it all, and believe that the possibilty of all occurances exist in some way, does that limit my free will as well?

 

[GreatBarracuda]

Originally posted by: yllus
Absolutely.

There is no logical constraint barring humans to have free will just because some godly being may possess the power of prescience.

I agree. I don't know why this is so difficult to understand for some people.

Just because God knows exactly what you're going to do in the future doesn't mean that you lose the power to do it however you want to do it. "It" being a particular action. In other words, God's infinite knowledge (including the future) doesn't take away from your free will in any way.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: GreatBarracuda

Originally posted by: yllus
Absolutely.

There is no logical constraint barring humans to have free will just because some godly being may possess the power of prescience.

I agree. I don't know why this is so difficult to understand for some people.

Just because God knows exactly what you're going to do in the future doesn't mean that you lose the power to do it however you want to do it. "It" being a particular action. In other words, God's infinite knowledge (including the future) doesn't take away from your free will in any way.

Yes, you do. You are always going to choose what god knows. I would only "choose" what God knows. I would never choose the opitions. Thats not free will.

 

[Vic]

Theological fatalism is a crutch for the weak minded. The argument in favor of it is itself a logical fallacy.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: Tabb

Originally posted by: GreatBarracuda
I agree. I don't know why this is so difficult to understand for some people.

Just because God knows exactly what you're going to do in the future doesn't mean that you lose the power to do it however you want to do it. "It" being a particular action. In other words, God's infinite knowledge (including the future) doesn't take away from your free will in any way.

Yes, you do. You are always going to choose what god knows. I would only "choose" what God knows. I would never choose the opitions. Thats not free will.

?

Let's say you have 50 options as to what to wear today.
Let's say some omniscient being knows you have 50 options, and additionally which one you will actually pick.

Are your options limited by that being's knowledge?

 

[Vic]

Let's say you think you have a fatal incurable disease. Should you go to the doctor to find out?

 

[GreatBarracuda]

Originally posted by: Tabb
You are always going to choose what god knows. I would only "choose" what God knows. I would never choose the opitions. Thats not free will.

Wrong. Did you not have the choices before you made your decision? This is free will.

 

[MiniDoom]

Free will and G-d is actually an important part of Judaism. See link below.
link

 

[GreatBarracuda]

Let me quote from a Christian website, since the logic behind it is the same in Islam:

"Logically, God knowing what we are going to do does not mean that we can't do something else. It means that God simply knows what we have chosen to do ahead of time. Our freedom is not restricted by God's foreknowledge; our freedom is simply realized ahead of time by God. In this, our natural ability to make another choice has not been removed anymore than my choice of what to write inside the parenthesis (hello) was removed by God who knew I would put the word "hello" in the parentheses before the universe was made. Before typing the word "hello," I pondered which word to write. My pondering was my doing and the choice was mine. How then was I somehow restricted in freedom when choosing what to write if God knew what I was going to do? No matter what choice we freely make can be known by God and His knowing it doesn't mean we aren't making a free choice."

Link

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

I want some cheese!

Jason

 

[kogase]

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Tabb

Originally posted by: GreatBarracuda
I agree. I don't know why this is so difficult to understand for some people.

Just because God knows exactly what you're going to do in the future doesn't mean that you lose the power to do it however you want to do it. "It" being a particular action. In other words, God's infinite knowledge (including the future) doesn't take away from your free will in any way.

Yes, you do. You are always going to choose what god knows. I would only "choose" what God knows. I would never choose the opitions. Thats not free will.

?

Let's say you have 50 options as to what to wear today.
Let's say some omniscient being knows you have 50 options, and additionally which one you will actually pick.

Are your options limited by that being's knowledge?

Your options aren't limited. Your ability to choose any of them except one is limited. There may as well be only one option, because it's the only one you would, the only one you are able to choose.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: GreatBarracuda

Originally posted by: Tabb
You are always going to choose what god knows. I would only "choose" what God knows. I would never choose the opitions. Thats not free will.

Wrong. Did you not have the choices before you made your decision? This is free will.

I had the choices, but I would never be able to choose them.

 

[GreatBarracuda]

Originally posted by: Tabb
I had the choices, but I would never be able to choose them.

Of course you would be able to choose among them. Just because the one you ended up choosing was already in God's knowledge doesn't mean that you didn't exercise your right to free will before you made the choice.

Really not as hard as you're making it out to be.

 

[slurmsmackenzie]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
He knows because He can tell the future, but it doesn't mean you know. If I take a criminal who's been convicted of theft 100 times and I put him in a room with some money I _know_ he's going to steal it, but I still have to give him the option to do it or not.

well lord byron says you know sh!t

 

[PatboyX]

i see there is a difference between one entity knowing what is going to occur as opposed to pre-determination.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: GreatBarracuda

Originally posted by: Tabb
I had the choices, but I would never be able to choose them.

Of course you would be able to choose among them. Just because the one you ended up choosing was already in God's knowledge doesn't mean that you didn't exercise your right to free will before you made the choice.

Really not as hard as you're making it out to be.

I am not trying to make it hard... just trying to be able to defend my own stance on this...

I have opitions "A" "B" "C" "D" I will choose "A" because God this is what God knows. I don't not have the options of choosing B C or D.

 

[GreatBarracuda]

Originally posted by: Tabb
I have opitions "A" "B" "C" "D" I will choose "A" because God this is what God knows. I don't not have the options of choosing B C or D.

Of course you do.