Can anyone give me pointers on how to test/fix my problem?

[luna]

A few weeks ago before I went to Europe my computer wouldn't find the EIDE drive upon bootup. I would turn it off and then restart, but the same old thing would keep happening. Once in a while it would get into windows. I could use it once iin a while. Once it got going it was fine for the most part, but then I would shut down for the night and the next day it wouldn't work. Well, one time while it was working I reformatted the hard drive and then installed windows XP figuring at least I could see if it was a software problem since I was running the same install of windows ME since 11/2000. Well XP was pretty sluggish at first. I wouldn't be able to do much because it would take forever to open something up or if I was trying to install something, it wouldn't go fast. It got better later on.

Well the next day it didn't work so I figured maybe it was the hard drive or the motherboard. I went to a friends house and we put the hard drive into his computer and it recognized it just fine. We downloaded a diagnostic program from Maxtor and all the tests said my hard drive was fine. I put one of his old drives in my computer and it still couldn't recognize it or if it did, it would freeze before getting any further. We then decided it probably was the motherboard so I bought a Shuttle AK31 ver. 3.1 and a 512MB stick of DDR RAM by Dane-Elec. (Here's the description from Newegg.com where I got it: Dane-Elec DDR 512MB 64MBx64 PC-2100 RAM - OEM 64x64. 184-Pin. CL=2 Unbuffered,6-Layers. Requires DDR supported Motherboard - Lifetime Warranty) This ram would work with this motherboard? I installed the motherboard and it won't work. It won't post. I turn the power off by the switch in back because if I just use the front panel button, it won't power up at all. I took all my cards out and unplugged all my drives but still nothing. It won't even post. I don't know if the board is dead or the ram or if something else might be the problem. I also think it could be the power supply, but wouldn't it post if it was getting power and the fans were spinning?

Here's my set up:
AMD Athlon Thunderbird 800Mhz
Shuttle AK31 ver. 3.1 motherboard
512 MB Dane-Elec DDR RAM
Voodoo 5 5500 Video Card
Sound Blaster Live Value Sound card
Plextor 12/10/32 CD-RW
Pioneer 115 DVD-ROM
Maxtor 20.5 GB Hard Drive
Enlight Case w/ 300 Wt power supply.
Sony 3.5" Floppy drive
Netgear Network Card

The other motherboard and ram I have replaced are:
Abit KT7 motherboard
128 MB Crucial SD RAM

Can anyone help me or at least give me ways to test it. I have to return the 512 MB RAM w/in 7 days if it is bad.
If only I had another computer where I could test things. I can't even try other RAM because both sticks are different. Any help would be great and very very much appreciated. Thanks.

Jon

 

[AkumaBao]

Are there newer versions of the BIOS? Are you using the "Cable Select" option, or are you setting to Master? I doubt it would be your ATA cable, but it's worth a try to experiment with another.

 

[Buz2b]

Good chance that your problems are related to the Power Supply. I've seen/heard of the same thing before and it was fixed by a better PS. Power is a funny animal. The PS you have is "OK" but not exactly the best. I have used it before. Just because it seems to work OK once doesn't mean it is working fine all the time. Just a thought.

 

[o1die]

With some ak31a boards, you have to use the cmos jumper before it will post the first time, or after unplugging the power supply.

 

[luna]

AkumaBao,
What do you mean cable select? I am installing it and setting everything just like the manual says. I'm not sure what you mean by cable select or master. I have been checking my manual because I remember reading something about cable select, but now I can't find it.

Buz2b,
The power supply I have is a 300W. What would you recomend? I have a AMD Athlon T-Bird 800 MHz, but should be upgrading to something much faster like a 1.8GHz or so. I'm just mentioning this so you can take that into account also. It needs to fit into an enlight case, even though I think most will.

o1die,
I just tried the CMOS deal a few times, but no go. I am starting to think that it might be a PS problem. That's my next step I think.

Thanks a lot guys for your imput. If you think of anything else please let me know. Just post it here or email me at:



Jon qween_madonna@yahoo.com

 

[RazB]

Luna, I had a similar problem that turned out to be the PSU set to 220W instead of 115W. This may seem simplistic, but it's worth checking since your symptoms are EXACTLY like the ones I was having with the fans spinning but no post. Initially, use only a video card and monitor. You should get beeps with an indication that you have no memory. Then begin adding components. The 115 switch is usually located near the IO switch on the power supply itself. With any luck, this was your issue.

 

[luna]

I checked that just to make sure, but the voltage was set at 115V. My computer worked fine from when I built it in November 2000 until about a month ago. I tried it with just the RAM and CPU in the motherboard, but no post.

 

[luna]

I went to the newegg.com page and looked at the specs for my motherboard because of another thread I started and it said that it supports these CPUs:

Processor
Socket A
Supports AMD Athlon XP CPU up to 2000+MhzG
Supports AMD Duron CPU 950Mhz+
Supports AMD Mogan CPU 1.1GHz

When I bought this mobo, I bought it because it supports faster processors than my Abit KT7 does. My friend told me that it would support an AMD Athlon TBird 800MHz and I am pretty sure I saw it mentioned before (about 1-2 months ago when I was looking at the mobo), but now it doesn't mention that it supports the TBird or Duron processors. Could this be the problem?

This stinks, first it doesn't recognize any drives and then I switch motherboards and can't even get it to post. Boy I wish I could figure out what the hell was wrong with this. I don't have a money tree in my backyard!

 

[Buz2b]

Can you look in the box and tell us what make and model number your Power Supply is? Also, try this test; take out the generic/OEM RAM, leaving just the 128 MB Crucial, then reset the CMOS by removing the battery for about a half hour. Replace the battery, then unplug all extra components except for the HDD, floppy, video card, ram and HSF. Then try to boot the system. Make sure that nothing else is plugged into the motherboard or Power Supply except those components I listed.

<< This stinks, first it doesn't recognize any drives and then I switch motherboards and can't even get it to post. >>

Uhmm, when did you switch MB's? Is the HDD you are using the one from the other board? Has the drive been formatted or are you attempting to boot with your system with the drive that was used with the other board? Sorry but that remark confuses me a bit.

 

[luna]

The new motherboard I put in uses DDR Ram so I can't use the 128 Crucial. I have tried it with just the ram and CPU/HSF in and that also didn't work. I have been trying it lately with the cpu, ram, hdd, and video card in, but still no post. My Power Supply is a Premier 300W and the model is: ps-pr-atx-300v.

This mobo problem only came about because I thought I had a mobo problem with my other one and then I bought this one. I want to use the Shuttle AK31 instead of my Abit KT7 because it supports faster CPUs and I have 512 in ram.

I just switched motherboards. My hard drive and everything else is from before. The drive is formatted and has windows XP running on it.

My first post explains the problem I was having with the old mobo and then I bought the Shuttle and am having new problems.

Thanks again for everyone's help. Hopefully we can get this fixed.

 

[Buz2b]

<< The new motherboard I put in uses DDR Ram so I can't use the 128 Crucial >>

I was suggesting that you take out and use the Crucial RAM for testing purposes, not as a permanent solution. In that way we can further diagnose the problem.


<< My Power Supply is a Premier 300W and the model is: ps-pr-atx-300v >>

Looking at the AMD recommended Power supplies for Athlons page, I cannot locate any information on that unit. I believe it could be suspect in this problem.


<< I just switched motherboards. My hard drive and everything else is from before. The drive is formatted and has windows XP running on it. >>

Yes, but if I understand correctly then, the HDD was formatted and loaded with XP on a different machine. Is that correct?
As I see it you have several potential problems and they are difficult to diagnose in the manner we have here. I would suspect that the Power supply and/or RAM could be the source, but there may be other factors which we cannot "see". Did you clear the CMOS as I suggested earlier? I mentioned removing the battery because I am not sure you are/will manage to get things correct with the jumpers. Please remove the battery for about half an hour then try the minimal setup I mentioned; using the Crucial RAM but leave out the HDD and boot to a floppy boot disk. Do this after you clear the CMOS. It is critical that you follow this suggestion if at all possible if we are to continue to give suggestions.

 

[luna]

Well, here's what happened. I'm going to start over. A few weeks ago, one day I turned my computer on and during the startup screens after it calculated the ram, it couldn't detect the IDE drives. Not my HDD, DVD-ROM, or my Burner. I finally got it into windows and then burned all my junk I needed. When I would shut down, it wouldn't bootup again. It seemed to bootup more after I was in windows for a while. I reformatted my HDD, and installed Windows XP figuring I would see if a new OS would help. I was running ME for 1 year 5 months on the same original install. When I built this computer in November 2000, it worked fine and has worked fine until this problem came about in March. I know XP sucks the heck out of RAM so I figured that is why it went real slow. After a few hours XP seemed to work better. I was able to install my burning software, which I later found out is incompatable with XP. I also installed my DVD software and could watch a movie. Well, I shut down for the night. The next day when I tried to start it up, the same problem of not detecting the IDE drives appeared so I knew it was a hardware problem.

I went to a friends house to test my machine as this is the only computer I have. We put my HDD in his computer and windows recognized it just fine. We went to the maxtor page and downloaded the diagnostic software and ran that and all the tests came back fine that my HDD was fine. I then put his old 1.2GB HDD in my computer and one time it recognized it, but wouldn't bootup. It froze during the startup. With my Maxtor, the computer would get into windows and then freeze. We figured it might be a motherboard problem because everything else seemed to check out.

I ordered the Shuttle AK 31 ver. 3.1. This board uses DDR Ram. My Abit KT7 doesn't. I bought some Dane-Elec 512 MB Ram for the Shuttle and then installed it into my computer. This is where a new problem arises with this motherboard. It won't even post.

The only thing I did was switch the motherboards in my computer.

I think it could be a power supply problem. When I built my computer I bought an Enlight case that was recomended on another site that it is acceptable for AMD. It included the power supply I currently have. The exact model is mentioned in an earlier post. Also this computer has worked for 17 months without any problems with the stuff I bought. I know things can go and can break so that is alright.

Would the problem of the motherboard not posting and booting up be from bad RAM? I don't know tons about these kind of problems and what can cause them. I bought the Shuttle because it offered me the opportunity to upgrade to a faster CPU among other things. I remember reading that it supported my AMD Athlon TBird 800MHz, but just recently on their web page it states that it supports the following processors:

Processor
Socket A
Supports AMD Athlon XP CPU up to 2000+MhzG
Supports AMD Duron CPU 950Mhz+
Supports AMD Mogan CPU 1.1GHz

The manual says that it is a SocketA AMD Athlon/Duron Processor Based DDR Main Board.

If my Athlon TBird is not supported, would that cause this no post, no bootup problem? I'm just asking because I don't have the money to keep buying parts on a whim thinking it might be this or that. I want to build a new system sooner or later and don't mind buying things like a power supply to try if it could really be the cause. I have looked at the recomended power supply links, but can't really figure out what I am looking for. What would you recomend or what should I be looking for? I want to upgrade to a faster processor than the TBird 800MHz I already have. Something around a 1.6-1.8 GHz or faster.

Buz2b,
I did as you told and took the battery out for at least half an hour. I then only had the video card, CPU, floppy and RAM in. I used the Dane-Elec. I know you said to use the Crucial, but it is 168 pin SDR RAM dimm. The Dane-Elec is 184 pin DDR RAM. How do you put it in if it's smaller? Would using the wrong kind of RAM ruin the Mobo? Also if my board isn't posting, could that be from dead ram? Even doing this with the Dane-Elec it would not post.

The description for my DDR RAM from newegg.com where I bought it is:
Dane-Elec DDR 512MB 64MBx64 PC-2100 RAM - OEM 64x64. 184-Pin. CL=2 Unbuffered,6-Layers. Requires DDR supported Motherboard - Lifetime Warranty

The manual says this about RAM:
Each 184-pin DIMM Slot can accommodate 64MB, 128MB, 256MB, 512MB, and 1GB of PC1600/PC2100 compliant 2.5V single or double side 64-bit wide data path non-ECC DDR SDRAM modules.
I showed my friend the description from newegg and he thought that it would work.
If it is the RAM I need to know as they only allow 7 days for return on it and at $128 I can't afford to have useless junk lying around.

Does anyone think my mobo is dead?

I hope this retelling would better clarify my problems and hopefully lead to new suggestions with more of the information on the parts I have given. Thanks again so much for your replies. Everything is welcome even if it frustrates me!

Jon

 

[Buz2b]

(the light bulb of understanding comes on) OK, I have a better idea now. Sorry if I confused you with some of the suggestions. No, you cannot use the Crucial RAM if it is SDRAM in a DDR slot. I was under the impression it was DDR. Now that you've cleared the CMOS and tried to boot with minimal components, you've narrowed things down a bit. Unfortunately it is very difficult to tell whether it is the MB, the PS or the RAM at this point. There is also a chance that it is the processor too. Did I say narrowed it down??? OK, is there any possiblility that one of those (less than knowledgable) local shops would be willing to test your Power supply or CPU for minimal if any charge? If not, you can get an ATX Power Supply tester for around $10-15. PC Power and cooling has one for $10.00 if you want to see what they look like. Maybe you can find one locally to speed things up. The one I have is made by Antec. They are pretty simplistic in that they tell you if your PS is good or not; period. No in-betweens. Even though I am always suspect of "Generic" RAM, I am doubtful if that is the trouble here. In addition, your RAM comes with a lifetime warranty and for the most part it is the "generic" RAM with the 30-90 day warranty that is problematic; for obvious reasons. So, for now I'd look elsewhere. The AK31 MB should have no problem with an Athlon 800. I just looked at the manual of one that I have here in my "office" (to be built later) and it says that it supports "AMD Athlon CPU 600-1.33 GHz+". Rule that out. There is always a possibility that the cpu could be bad, but it doesn't sound like it. When you installed it onto the Shuttle MB did you plug the HS fan into the header on the board or to the Power supply? Also, try using the IDE cable from your friends computer to hook up the HD drive to yours. You said it recongnized it OK on his right? Could be the cable. Are you confirming the Pin locations on the new MB?
At this point I don't see that it would be the MB. At least not the Shuttle. The problem of not booting on the Shuttle may not even be related to the trouble on the other MB. Right now it seems your best bet is to drop back ten and punt. Take everything out of the case. Set the MB (shuttle) on the anti-static foam that it came packaged with. Go through the same BS to reset the CMOS. Now, still outside the case,remove and reinstall the CPU w/HSF, hook up the floppy drive, the RAM and video card; no HDD or other IDE drives. Just hook up the Power Switch and speaker wires. If it starts to boot enter the BIOS and set it to boot to floppy first. Then put in a bootable floppy in the drive, save and exit, and boot again. Either way, make sure to hook up the case speaker and listen for any beep codes. They can give some clues to the trouble. Also notice what, if anything powers up when you try. If you can test the PS to make sure it is good and it still won't boot with the board outside the case with only the minimal components I mentioned then you have narrowed it down further. The power supply might not be good enough to run the new MB with all components but it should at least boot this minimal setup. Then you are looking at the RAM or CPU. Either one should give some sort of clues with beep codes if you can get it to do a partial start. If not then have the local shop test the cpu. It might cost a few $ but that is better than buying a new one without confirming the old one is bad. After that you are left with the MB or RAM. Same story as to testing the RAM at a local shop, unless you can find someone with a board to run it in. Other than that I am not sure what you can do further as far as diagnostics are concerned. I suppose you could try to "borrow" another cpu and see if it will boot but it sounds as though you don't really have that option to try. Maybe if it comes down to it you could make a deal with the local shop. Tell them if they get the board to boot with a new CPU then you will buy that one from them (no labor charge of course). I wish you luck.