Can anyone explain the seeming paranoia about genetically modified (GM, or "frankenfood" as some call it) food crops?

[glenn1]

I just don't get the (primarily European, but certainly not limited to Europe) obsession about genetically modifying staple agricultural crops. We've been doing it on a smaller scale for thousands of years, heck, some crops like soybeans are human creations. Yet these same folks seem to be keen on organic foods, which to me seems a bit backwards. Can someone enlighten me on the main "problems" people see with GM food?

 

[MacBaine]

Mostly due to the amount that we are modifying certain kinds of foods, and there has been no scientific study proving that they aren't harmful. I don't see why we need to modify food as it is. Hunger? Bullshit! (Vegetarian propoganda coming up) We have enough food to feed everyone in the world, but most of it is fed to livestock. We put in so much food to raise cattle, chickens, pigs, etc, and we get a fraction of that amount back in meat. (end vegetarian propoganda) Anyway, I would just feel safer eating food that hasn't been genetically altered.

 

[Wallydraigle]

People insist on proving that it's "not harmful", but no one wants to eat any to find out


You can't rationalize an irrational fear.

 

[N8Magic]

Can anyone explain the seeming paranoia about genetically modified (GM, or "frankenfood" as some call it) food crops?

People have been "programmed" by sensationalized news programs to believe that this will happen if GM foods are allowed to enter the marketplace on a large scale.

 

[Wallydraigle]

People have been "programmed" by sensationalized news programs to believe that this will happen if GM foods are allowed to enter the marketplace on a large scale.

Well, you have to think out of the box and prepare for the worst that could happen. If we save just one life by not modding our food wouldn't it be worth it? And for Christ's sake will someone please think of the children?

 

[Smaulz]

Well, I dunno 'bout GM food, but from a purely personal point of view, the produce they've been pumping full of hormones and steroids for years is just nasty. When's the last time you found a great tomato or banana or something in the supermarket? Banana's for instance... they've gotten 'em to the point that they're friggin huge, but have absolutely no flavor at all, and the texture is just gross. Same with tomatoes. I swear by all that's good and holy that if I crack into another tomato and find it all white, hard, and mealy, I'm gonna freak out and start sniping produce managers from the roof of the local grocery store. Melons, apples, everything else. So what if they weigh fourteen pounds if they're inedible? Maybe I'm just too picky, (working as a chef for 10 years will do that to ya) but go out of your way sometime and find a reputable organic or home-grown stand and try some of the stuff they've got there... see if you can't tell a difference.

My point is, if stuff is this bad now, how much worse is it going to be when they start genetically modifying food?

Change is bad... I fear change....

 

[joohang]

Check this out

I saw the TV ad the other day and some of their argument seemed pretty valid while other claims sounded too absurd.

 

[Martin]

FUD, pure and simple.

The enviromaniacs get freaked out, think scientists are playing god (wtf is wrong with playing god anyway?) and start spreading their FUD.


A nice example is this. In my world issues class these girls are doing a presentation on these things and say that in U of Guelph they are making a cattle feed that is modified with genes from tobacco plants. They wanted people to think that they might get cancer from eating meat that has eaten GM foods. Total BS, what's worse, poeple believed that stuff! I should've argued with them, but didnt feel like doing a 20 to 1 debate.

 

[joohang]

Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
FUD, pure and simple.

The enviromaniacs get freaked out, think scientists are playing god (wtf is wrong with playing god anyway?) and start spreading their FUD.


A nice example is this. In my world issues class these girls are doing a presentation on these things and say that in U of Guelph they are making a cattle feed that is modified with genes from tobacco plants. They wanted people to think that they might get cancer from eating meat that has eaten GM foods. Total BS, what's worse, poeple believed that stuff! I should've argued with them, but didnt feel like doing a 20 to 1 debate.

LOL

My parents keep bugging me how I shouldn't let my little brother from playing GameCube because some brillant American Ph.D. dude somewhere some time published some report that video games make kids dumb and violent.

WTF..

 

[N8Magic]

Originally posted by: Smaulz
Well, I dunno 'bout GM food, but from a purely personal point of view, the produce they've been pumping full of hormones and steroids for years is just nasty. When's the last time you found a great tomato or banana or something in the supermarket? Banana's for instance... they've gotten 'em to the point that they're friggin huge, but have absolutely no flavor at all, and the texture is just gross. Same with tomatoes. I swear by all that's good and holy that if I crack into another tomato and find it all white, hard, and mealy, I'm gonna freak out and start sniping produce managers from the roof of the local grocery store. Melons, apples, everything else. So what if they weigh fourteen pounds if they're inedible? Maybe I'm just too picky, (working as a chef for 10 years will do that to ya) but go out of your way sometime and find a reputable organic or home-grown stand and try some of the stuff they've got there... see if you can't tell a difference.

My point is, if stuff is this bad now, how much worse is it going to be when they start genetically modifying food?

Change is bad... I fear change....

I think we're comparing apples and oranges here.

I support changing the genetics of certain vegetables and plants so they are resistant to certain diseases and so they can grow in no-so-perfect climates. I do NOT support pumping animals and veggies full of roids and hormones so they grow quicker and bigger.

Two different issues there. I'll always support the organically grown foods, but if they come from seeds that have certain genes modified that don't affect flavour and texture, who cares?

 

[Yossarian451]

Ihave no problem with GM food. It is better adapted for the soil, i.e. less chemicals need un growing it (chemicals can be bad, duh think ddt). It in my opinio is nothing more than fast forwarding genetic mutations, which we make all the time with plants, and have for hundreds of years.

People are just generally stupid and see a big word lie, genetic or modified, hell even food for some of them. THese are the same people who think a clone comes out fully matured like in the movies. It will be impossible to combat their stupidity but I will eat the GM food no problem.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Smaulz
Well, I dunno 'bout GM food, but from a purely personal point of view, the produce they've been pumping full of hormones and steroids for years is just nasty. When's the last time you found a great tomato or banana or something in the supermarket? Banana's for instance... they've gotten 'em to the point that they're friggin huge, but have absolutely no flavor at all, and the texture is just gross. Same with tomatoes. I swear by all that's good and holy that if I crack into another tomato and find it all white, hard, and mealy, I'm gonna freak out and start sniping produce managers from the roof of the local grocery store. Melons, apples, everything else. So what if they weigh fourteen pounds if they're inedible? Maybe I'm just too picky, (working as a chef for 10 years will do that to ya) but go out of your way sometime and find a reputable organic or home-grown stand and try some of the stuff they've got there... see if you can't tell a difference. My point is, if stuff is this bad now, how much worse is it going to be when they start genetically modifying food? Change is bad... I fear change....

That they DONT genetically modify your tomato is why you have this. The ideal tomato has both flavor AND shelf life. No one has been able to breed a tomato with both. Profit being more important than quality, you now have tomatos grown and treated to have the same keeping qualites as a bocce ball. Probably tastes the same. Genetic manipulation could change this.

A rational argument against genetic manipulation is that economic pressures would tend to make one or at most a few types of tomato, corn etc. Reducing genetic diversity increases the chance that some disease could wipe out an entire crop. Of course this can happen in any selective breeding program as well. Yes you could impart 100% resistance to a given virus, but that does not prevent some unforseen one from wreaking havoc.

 

[Yossarian451]

Ohh something I forgot about, a cool GM food that came from this local college around by me was edible sorgum. You know that stuff they feed to birds and cows, yep they made it digestable and somewhat tasty, they figured it would fix some problems in Africa. Hasn't passed all the tests but it would be interesting to see how something like that would change peoples ideas on GM food.

 

[Antoneo]

Not to sure about the huge tasteless bananas, but I have found huge strawberries (the size of a tennis ball) that look oh so good but then you try eating them your tastebuds tell you nothing. Just a tiny bit of strawberry flavor, no sweetness, and it seems if you are eating well something. Very annoying I tell you.

 

[Smaulz]

Valid points... I guess I'd have to wait and see... I'm not going to hold my breath, though... lol

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

GM products have great potential for many of the reasons already mentioned but every benefit has a dark side.

1) Engineering vaccines into food is an excellent way to deliver vital immunization to all populations. But the efficacy of delivery through the GI tract rarely prompts the kind of immunity available through other methods.

2) Supplementing the nutrient content of a given food . . . particularly in areas with endemic deficiencies is a good idea but you lose control of dosing. It matters relatively little for water soluble vitamins like C and Bs, but A, D, and E can have profound adverse effects in mega doses.

3) Making species more resistant to disease and adverse growth conditions would be great if you didn't run the risk of breeding out nature's version not to mention disruptions throughout the ecosystem when you arbitrarily change the balance between organisms. We've got great technology at our disposable but there are VERY few situations where I would prefer an engineered version over Mother Nature's trial and error.

4) Per Monsanto and the "Terminator seeds" when these advances come from the corporate world they expect to get phat payback. It doesn't matter that for centuries this year's soybean crop provided the foundation for next year's crop. Big Corp will provide a better plant or animal that will produce more product for less cost . . . the catch . . . the plant can't be sustained through multiple generations. Nature engineered self propagation to maintain the species . . . man engineers it out to maintain profit margins. I wouldn't forbid the production or use of such seeds, but I would insist on extremely rigorous environmental control to prevent contamination of reproductively viable organisms.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
GM products have great potential for many of the reasons already mentioned but every benefit has a dark side. 1) Engineering vaccines into food is an excellent way to deliver vital immunization to all populations. But the efficacy of delivery through the GI tract rarely prompts the kind of immunity available through other methods. 2) Supplementing the nutrient content of a given food . . . particularly in areas with endemic deficiencies is a good idea but you lose control of dosing. It matters relatively little for water soluble vitamins like C and Bs, but A, D, and E can have profound adverse effects in mega doses. 3) Making species more resistant to disease and adverse growth conditions would be great if you didn't run the risk of breeding out nature's version not to mention disruptions throughout the ecosystem when you arbitrarily change the balance between organisms. We've got great technology at our disposable but there are VERY few situations where I would prefer an engineered version over Mother Nature's trial and error. 4) Per Monsanto and the "Terminator seeds" when these advances come from the corporate world they expect to get phat payback. It doesn't matter that for centuries this year's soybean crop provided the foundation for next year's crop. Big Corp will provide a better plant or animal that will produce more product for less cost . . . the catch . . . the plant can't be sustained through multiple generations. Nature engineered self propagation to maintain the species . . . man engineers it out to maintain profit margins. I wouldn't forbid the production or use of such seeds, but I would insist on extremely rigorous environmental control to prevent contamination of reproductively viable organisms.

A lil picky, but it is extremely difficult to overdose on E. If you look at trials of E in Alzheimers patients, you will find HUGE doses given without side effects. I do have a problem when Monsanto et al control the food supply. Not allowing people to harvest their seed for next season because of intellectual property rights is also a problem

 

[sandorski]

GM foods have a lot of potential to do good, but they also have a lot of potential to do unforeseen harm. It appears that Genetic traits added to GM foods are being passed onto non-GM plants that are closely related. GM Canola has passed traits to non-GM Canola, and even some weeds seem to have acquired GM herbicidal resistance traits.

BTW, everyone in NA and most in Europe are likely eating GM foods right now, there is no shortage of people eating it.

Glenn1: Though I agree that there is probably an over reaction by some, it is incorrect to think that Genetic Modification and traditional modifying techniques are the same.

 

[PistachioByAzul]

Because it has vast unforseen dangers. Remember the rule, if something can go wrong, it will? Well, here we are, playing god, splicing nature up and putting it back together to fit our own agendas. Sorry, the nature that give birth to homo-sapiens is perfectly balanced the way it is.

Factory farming is not healthy for the planet nor its inhabitants no matter how you slice it.

I'm also reminded of something said:

A frog dropped in boiling water will jump right out. A frog sitting in water that is gradually brought to a boil will cook to death. If you tell the frog, "That water is coming to a boil. You better do something." The frog will tell you that he has been in that water all along and nothing has happened so far.

Read about monsanto
International Center for Technological Assesment
Purefood.org

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
FUD, pure and simple.

The enviromaniacs get freaked out, think scientists are playing god (wtf is wrong with playing god anyway?) and start spreading their FUD.


A nice example is this. In my world issues class these girls are doing a presentation on these things and say that in U of Guelph they are making a cattle feed that is modified with genes from tobacco plants. They wanted people to think that they might get cancer from eating meat that has eaten GM foods. Total BS, what's worse, poeple believed that stuff! I should've argued with them, but didnt feel like doing a 20 to 1 debate.

There are times I don't doubt that. There is a measure that will be going on Oregon's fall ballot about requiring that all foods containing GM components be labeled. Because the measure is so nebulus, no one knows what it'll even cost. At the bare minimum, they want 55 inspectors plus all the admin staff nessisary to do the work. For the sake of comparison, they want to put these people inside the Oregon Dept. of Agriculture, which only has ~300 people total, so they want to add more than 20% to the department, all for making sure GM foods are labeled(as a side note, the ODA is responsible for all food safety outside of resturants, measurement standards in the state, pest/unwelcome plant control, ag commodity inspection, etc). I'll call it FUD to a point right there, you don't need that many people for a "problem" like this; that's going over the deep end.

 

[PistachioByAzul]

The one semi-legitimate argument for GM foods, creating enough to feed the world holds no water, because properly distributed, there already is more than enough, and because big-ag is not about to cut into profits by handing out surplus.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

ultimate solution:

I eat it.
I'm not dead.

nik

 

[PistachioByAzul]

I eat it.
I'm not dead.

"The water is just fine" said the frog.

 

[palad]

I remember hearing a report at one point that talked about a specific GM being used or researched by some seed companies -- enforced sterility. The seeds they were making were supposed to be completely sterile, and thus the farmers would need to purchase new seed crop every year, rather than just growing it themselves. The fear was that the use of such GM seeds would have a detrimental effect on regional crop cycles. Worse case fear was that the GM seeds would somehow interbreed with normal seeds and cause long-term shortages, but since the GM seeds are sterile in the first place, I don't know how valid this fear is.

 

[chrisjor]

Gee, if I were not semi intoxicated...I would post a very long response to this thread. I am a shareholder of both Procter & Gamble and Pepsico (Frito Lay). GM foods are an annual issue for shareholders to vote on when receiving our annual reports...it is argued on a regular basis in these formats. It is consistently left as an affirmative option for both companies should they decide to use them.....I am not certain if they do. Frito Lay is constantly defending themselves as it may be cheaper for them to use GM corn in the snack foods they produce.



By the way...If the frog talked I would be more concerned about that phenomenon.