Can ANY Xeon beat a E6600 Core 2 Duo?

[Caveman]

I'm a mechanical engineer and I'm trying to select some PCs for the ME group for engineering CAD apps, etc... A "high powered machine"...

The IT dept thinks we need Xeons, but they're not aware of these new Intel chips... The core2 Duo sounds like the way to go to me...

What should be done? Xeon or Core2 Duo?

 

[Tsuwamono]

If it were for servers i would suggest XEON. for your applications im sure C2D should be fine...

 

[Neos]

That brings up a question for me. What really makes the XEON that much better than a the CD2 for a server?

 

[Aluvus]

There are Core microarchitecture Xeons available now. Codename Woodcrest, they make up the 5100 series of Xeons.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: Caveman
I'm a mechanical engineer and I'm trying to select some PCs for the ME group for engineering CAD apps, etc... A "high powered machine"...

The IT dept thinks we need Xeons, but they're not aware of these new Intel chips... The core2 Duo sounds like the way to go to me...

What should be done? Xeon or Core2 Duo?

The C2D should take apart the Xeons.

Edit: I didn't know the new Xeons were out yet. If Woodcest is out, that is great, but I don't know if you'll see much of a difference between a C2D and a Xeon (Woodcrest) for CAD, except for the price.

 

[krotchy]

Originally posted by: JackBurton
The C2D should take apart the Xeons.

Based off of what?

You are aware the woodcrest Xeons have been out longer than the Core 2 Duo's. Also the woodcrests are faster than the conroes at the same clockspeed, because they use a 1333 FSB instead of the 1066, which anandtech showed improves performance by a small margin (4% overall). Also a Xeon 5160 = 3 GHZ Woodcrest. The fasted C2D is 2.93 GHZ.

Go with a woodcrest Xeon OP. As was said above Woodcrests and Conroe are the same architecture, and the woodcrest xeons are the 51XX series.

 

[Aluvus]

Originally posted by: Neos
That brings up a question for me. What really makes the XEON that much better than a the CD2 for a server?

Support for multi-socket systems, sometimes extra cache or other features, motherboards that are better suited to server use (FB-DIMMs, ECC support, server-specific things like PCI-X slots if that's your thing).

In the specific case of Woodcrest, it is distinct from the Core 2 Duo lot because it is available with a faster Front Side Bus, supports dual-socket systems, and again uses different motherboards that may be better suited to server use. Otherwise it's essentially the same thing.

Some of the dual-core Xeons support Hyper-Threading (so 4 logical cores per socket), which none of the Pentium D or Core 2 Duo series do, but Woodcrest does not.

 

[Caveman]

WAIT!!!!

I did not mean a "Conroe" based version of the Xeon. I meant the old architecture XEON vs the Core2 Duo. Whether for Client OR server, I'd think in this matchup, the Core2 Duo rig using an E6600 should be faster than the fastest old Xeon.

RIGHT???

 

[Caveman]

bump...

 

[Geomagick]

The old Xeon was based on the Netburst architecture and was similar in performance to the Pentium 4 and Pentium D line up. The main difference was that Xeon chips could be used in multi processor systems.

However I don't think there is any point in comparing an old Xeon with a new consumer orientated product.

 

[Caveman]

Was hoping for more quantitative responses... But... reading between the lines seems to imply the following...

E6600 CD2 = faster than than the "fastest clocked" old Xeon by at least some amount, perhaps as high as 20%...

 

[krotchy]

Originally posted by: Caveman
Was hoping for more quantitative responses... But... reading between the lines seems to imply the following...

E6600 CD2 = faster than than the "fastest clocked" old Xeon by at least some amount, perhaps as high as 20%...

yes. simply put: Core 2 Duo > Dual Core Opterons > Xeons (minus the woodcrest)

Old Xeons, based on netburt will run hotter and slower, and also will use alot more power. There is no clear cut % increase difference, some things can be as high as 50% improvement some things only 5-10%.

 

[Tsuwamono]

for a SERVER you want stability and redundency, therefore a SERVER class CPU is the right choice. however for a simple workstation any old Conroe will work

 

[araczynski]

in my previous job, our mechanical engineers did autocad as well (don't they all?). what they cared about more then anything was having screen real estate and graphics to drive it at good speeds. i've never heard a single one of them peep about processor speeds.

i.e. if you work is throwing around money like its the heydays of the bubble, then let them be happy (and feel important) and buy whatever they want.

personally you'll find more use in the C2D's and a better graphics card/monitor then the money you would spend/waste on putting any xeons in a workstation class machine.

 

[Aluvus]

Originally posted by: Tsuwamono
for a SERVER you want stability and redundency, therefore a SERVER class CPU is the right choice. however for a simple workstation any old Conroe will work

I am not at all sure how concerns about stability or redundancy apply to choosing a modern CPU.

 

[Caveman]

Thanks all.

We use IDEAS v12m1 and crunch huge Finite Element Analysis (FEA) and thermal models with the machines as well as 3D parametric sold design/drafting...

CPU comes into play on the analysis, vid cards on the design, and memory usage on both.

We have large models of entire missiles, launcher vehicles, and satelites that the company does, so the work is very taxing.

Thanks again.

 

[Tsuwamono]

Originally posted by: Aluvus

Originally posted by: Tsuwamono
for a SERVER you want stability and redundency, therefore a SERVER class CPU is the right choice. however for a simple workstation any old Conroe will work

I am not at all sure how concerns about stability or redundancy apply to choosing a modern CPU.

Maybe you should go look at the computers that airports use.. 16 processors, .. all extremely stable. These conroe CPUs or even the AMD Athlon 64 series arent anywhere near as stable or fast as those CPUs man.

 

[dexvx]

Your IT department remnids me of the one I had to deal with. A bunch of incompetent idiots.

51xx Xeons are based off Core2
50xx Xeons are based off Netburst

Obviously 51xx > 50xx.

Only difference between a Xeon and a normal consumer chip is that the Xeon is validated for 2 socket and up. Nothing else.

 

[Caveman]

What makes a server CPU any better? Are they tested to better specs? Is there even such a thing or have many fallen under the spell of clever marketing?

 

[dexvx]

Originally posted by: Caveman
What makes a server CPU any better? Are they tested to better specs? Is there even such a thing or have many fallen under the spell of clever marketing?

They are tested and validated for 2s/4s and above. NOTHING else is different, except for packaging. Also, the Xeon retail HS/F is better (on par with good 3rd party solutions).

 

[m1ldslide1]

We have large models of entire missiles, launcher vehicles, and satelites that the company does, so the work is very taxing.

Whoah now, the OP didn't mention building servers that help kill people! Anybody seen Real Genius? Where's Val Kilmer when you need him...

Sorry, bored. :roll:

 

[krotchy]

Originally posted by: dexvx

Originally posted by: Caveman
What makes a server CPU any better? Are they tested to better specs? Is there even such a thing or have many fallen under the spell of clever marketing?

They are tested and validated for 2s/4s and above. NOTHING else is different, except for packaging. Also, the Xeon retail HS/F is better (on par with good 3rd party solutions).

2s/4s and PCI-X as well. PCI-X can be very important to some, and useless to others.

 

[dexvx]

Originally posted by: krotchy

Originally posted by: dexvx

Originally posted by: Caveman
What makes a server CPU any better? Are they tested to better specs? Is there even such a thing or have many fallen under the spell of clever marketing?

They are tested and validated for 2s/4s and above. NOTHING else is different, except for packaging. Also, the Xeon retail HS/F is better (on par with good 3rd party solutions).

2s/4s and PCI-X as well. PCI-X can be very important to some, and useless to others.

PCI-X has nothing to do with the processor. PCI-X is tested seperately and is processor independant. You will note that there are some S775 boards with PCI-X slots.