Can an electric car beat a gas powered car?

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: OS
the vehicles website

"Top speed 112mph (electronically limited)"

that would explain the low trap speed.


it also seems to have no transmission which means less drivetrain losses.

then the body of the text says first gear goes to 112, which implies the limit is the spin of the engine. Of course once you add in a transmission you get more parasitic losses and more weight.

I'm sure they geared it so it can run the 1/4 mile all in 1st gear. By the end of the track it's hitting its motor's speed limiter. They could give it taller gearing so it's not maxxing out at the end of the track and capable of a higher top speed, but then it wouldn't be able to accelerate as quickly. And like you said, if they gave it a transmission they'd have to deal with more parasitic losses and more weight.

Same deal before I modded my car. I was hitting my rev limiter in 3rd gear right before the end of the track, @ around 100 mph. Having to stay in 3rd might've held me back a mph or two, but it's a moot point since if I tried shifting to 4th, I'd spend the rest of my run shifting, and wouldn't get any extra speed out of it anyway. For the best ET, it was best for me to stay in 3rd gear.

 

[randay]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: randay

This would apply 100% if it were applied to real drag cars. However these are not. In a comparison of electric to gas engines, the biggest difference would be the torque curves. An electric motor has 100% of its torque available from 0 rpm till its max rpm. Of course hooking up is also important, but I doubt its as hard to do with those cars as it is on dragsters.

Nope, the same physics applies to all cars. The calculations involved remain the same regardless of powerplant.

I've often argued with morons trying to tell me that the HP and torque curves don't always cross at 5252 rpm for all engines. They've often brought up fake "evidence" of their friends cars being tuned a certain way, or diesel engines, or electric motors, etc. It's all the same. Anyone with a basic understanding of math should understand why.

And hooking up is extremely hard, even on those cars. Hell, my car is 3500 lbs with 400 hp and (389 lbs of torque at the rear wheels), and first gear is absolutely useless on street tires. No traction. Even Civics will be be seriously affected by traction.

Im saying that traction was not the only reason why it won. And I made no mention about the horsepower formula, I hope you are not refering to me about that.

 

[OS]

it's an interesting and expensive toy, but what i'd really like to see is someone pit that electric car vs the supercharged atom.

also since the electric car is basically a one off engineering prototype, it'd be even more crazy to see what a modified atom could do. Atoms use RSX-S motors with an optional blower, which i recall gets 300 HP from ariel's factory.

The RSX-S motor has a huge aftermarket and I'm sure someone could do some crazy ass build.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: randay


Im saying that traction was not the only reason why it won. And I made no mention about the horsepower formula, I hope you are not refering to me about that.

Traction IS the only reason it won. There is no other way that it would have beaten the Carrera, which has a much better power/weight ratio and a 130+ mph trap speed.

The only thing holding the Carrera back from running 10's is traction. With a 132 mph trap speed, it will easily run mid/low 10's with proper traction, which far exceeds the 11.5 that this electric car runs.

 

[randay]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: randay


Im saying that traction was not the only reason why it won. And I made no mention about the horsepower formula, I hope you are not refering to me about that.

Traction IS the only reason it won. There is no other way that it would have beaten the Carrera, which has a much better power/weight ratio and a 130+ mph trap speed.

The only thing holding the Carrera back from running 10's is traction. With a 132 mph trap speed, it will easily run mid/low 10's with proper traction, which far exceeds the 11.5 that this electric car runs.

I estimate tires to be 85-90% of your car. The rest is in engine(powerplant in this case), transmission, suspension, and driver. Tires are not the only thing that determines your cars ability to apply power to the road.

edit: forgot weight, and pretty much everything else that your car is attached to(not counting the ground)(or air)(actually air might count).

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: randay

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: randay


Im saying that traction was not the only reason why it won. And I made no mention about the horsepower formula, I hope you are not refering to me about that.

Traction IS the only reason it won. There is no other way that it would have beaten the Carrera, which has a much better power/weight ratio and a 130+ mph trap speed.

The only thing holding the Carrera back from running 10's is traction. With a 132 mph trap speed, it will easily run mid/low 10's with proper traction, which far exceeds the 11.5 that this electric car runs.

I estimate tires to be 85-90% of your car. The rest is in engine(powerplant in this case), transmission, suspension, and driver. Tires are not the only thing that determines your cars ability to apply power to the road.

edit: forgot weight, and pretty much everything else that your car is attached to(not counting the ground)(or air)(actually air might count).

Like I said, traction is the only reason that this electric car won. There is no way that it would have beat the Carrera with its 132 mph trap speed. The difference in power is huge.

Of course there are other factors that determine the car's performance, but they weren't holding it back. In this case it's traction.

 

[randay]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: randay

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: randay


Im saying that traction was not the only reason why it won. And I made no mention about the horsepower formula, I hope you are not refering to me about that.

Traction IS the only reason it won. There is no other way that it would have beaten the Carrera, which has a much better power/weight ratio and a 130+ mph trap speed.

The only thing holding the Carrera back from running 10's is traction. With a 132 mph trap speed, it will easily run mid/low 10's with proper traction, which far exceeds the 11.5 that this electric car runs.

I estimate tires to be 85-90% of your car. The rest is in engine(powerplant in this case), transmission, suspension, and driver. Tires are not the only thing that determines your cars ability to apply power to the road.

edit: forgot weight, and pretty much everything else that your car is attached to(not counting the ground)(or air)(actually air might count).

Like I said, traction is the only reason that this electric car won. There is no way that it would have beat the Carrera with its 132 mph trap speed. The difference in power is huge.

Of course there are other factors that determine the car's performance, but they weren't holding it back. In this case it's traction.

Im sorry but you are worse then those guys who don't understand the math behind horsepower. Its like losing a chess match and then saying "You only won because you ate all my peices".

 

[0roo0roo]

kinda lame comparing something based on an arial atom that weighs nothing to real cars.

 

[everman]

meh, it's a go-kart with lots of power, what do you expect? I'd take the Porche 911 Turbo over that any day.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: randay

Im sorry but you are worse then those guys who don't understand the math behind horsepower. Its like losing a chess match and then saying "You only won because you ate all my peices".

You're a young idiot who doesn't have the real world experience required to challenge someone who does have real world experience with cars.

If you want to challenge me on something- anything.... I'm game.

I'll own your ass up and down this forum and expose you to be the inexperienced fool that you really are.

You have no point to stand on. You don't understand the math involved. I do.

electric car- about 6.36 lbs per horsepower
Porsche- about 5.29 lbs per horsepower

electric car- trap speed around 112. Even if it wasn't electronically limited, the trap speed would only be as high as around 118 mph.

Porsche- trap speed around 130+ mph.

If you were to look at the timeslips for both cars, you'd see that the electric car won because of a much better 60 foot time. That's because the people who staged the race stacked it from the beginning. They gave the less powerful car slicks so it could launch better, while the didn't give the more powerful car slicks.

11.5 is a damn good time for 112-118 mph trap speed, and is near what you can expect to get on slicks. The Porsche, with sufficient traction and a 130 mph trap speed would easily run 10s.

Again- this is coming from experience, seeing real world results. This isn't your high school cafeteria where idiots like you can spout the garbage that they want and get away with it.

Go ahead, open your mouth and prepare to be embarrassed.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: everman
meh, it's a go-kart with lots of power, what do you expect? I'd take the Porche 911 Turbo over that any day.

It didn't have lots of power. It had a decent amount of power and a lot of traction. It only had 230 hp.

The Porsche, while being the heaviest car tested, had the best power/weight ratio there. Its time was traction limited.

 

[91TTZ]

I have a quiz for our friend randay here to test his knowledge. Please answer this and don't dodge the question:

Suppose you have two cars, car A and car B, identical in every way. Each of them is capable of running 13.0@110 mph on every run as long as they have traction.

They line up, and the light turns green. As they launch, car B experiences a bit of tire spin at the line while car A doesn't. Car B is only .25 seconds behind, though, so they're still neck to neck, with car A only having only a lead of a foot as they they exit the hole.

For the rest of the race, everything runs as planned, and the cars accelerate optimally.

Tell me what the outcome of the race looks like.

 

[j00fek]

good stuff :thumbsup:

 

[homestarmy]

Ridiculous. That car has slicks and has no weight - the body is copied from the Ariel Atom. Now let's put it against an Ariel Atom with slicks to make it a fair game.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
It baffles the mind how a car forum like ATOT can be so interested in cars, yet know absolutely nothing about them.

See, that's your problem. ATOT isn't a car forum.

 

[SampSon]

This electric car also has only one gear, no clutch. The car is at maximum power throughout the entire run.

 

[randay]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
You're a young idiot who doesn't have the real world experience required to challenge someone who does have real world experience with cars.

Go ahead, open your mouth and prepare to be embarrassed.

Sounds like you want to e-fight. Why don't you grow some e-hair on your e-balls first son. I don't e-fight with e-children, its just not right. Your e-inadequacies are showing, don't worry, when you get e-older, maybe your e-peen will grow a little bit more.

 

[imported_goku]

I just think it's funny people are trying to justify why the electric car won, not ****** it won, not ****** it doesn't have a tranny, no ****** it's lighter, whats your ****** point? Point is, the car beat the other one and is not only lighter but is able to get away with it without sacrificing perfomance or creating a toll on the environment....

 

[fitzov]

There was a documentary (Alan Alda was the host) a while back where they talked about alternative vehicles. They said in the film that electric motors were more efficient in acceleration and that gasoline engines were more efficient when maintaining a constant speed. Unsure about the physics of it all.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: goku
able to get away with it without sacrificing perfomance or creating a toll on the environment....

Unless you need to drive more than 100 miles in a day, haul even a modicum of luggage, want accident protection, want the ability to drive in the rain and aren't somehow plugging it into a magical outlet that isn't connected to an electricity plant that just makes the pollution somewhere else and not at the car.

Electric cars are not "zero emissions" despite what people claim. Electric vehicles are "remote emissions" vehicles. They cause additional emissions from the power plants.

What this test really proved was that a small, purpose-built car that is only marginally more practical in everyday use than a motorcycle (actually less practical in this instance since you absolutely cannot drive a car with slicks in the rain) beat cars that, while fast, are also almost infinitely more practical.

ZV

 

[randay]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: goku
able to get away with it without sacrificing perfomance or creating a toll on the environment....

Unless you need to drive more than 100 miles in a day, haul even a modicum of luggage, want accident protection, want the ability to drive in the rain and aren't somehow plugging it into a magical outlet that isn't connected to an electricity plant that just makes the pollution somewhere else and not at the car.

Electric cars are not "zero emissions" despite what people claim. Electric vehicles are "remote emissions" vehicles. They cause additional emissions from the power plants.

What this test really proved was that a small, purpose-built car that is only marginally more practical in everyday use than a motorcycle (actually less practical in this instance since you absolutely cannot drive a car with slicks in the rain) beat cars that, while fast, are also almost infinitely more practical.

ZV

Never thought of it that way. Interesting. But don't like gas refineries and what not also produce pollution? on top of what a car will produce?

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: randay

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: goku
able to get away with it without sacrificing perfomance or creating a toll on the environment....

Unless you need to drive more than 100 miles in a day, haul even a modicum of luggage, want accident protection, want the ability to drive in the rain and aren't somehow plugging it into a magical outlet that isn't connected to an electricity plant that just makes the pollution somewhere else and not at the car.

Electric cars are not "zero emissions" despite what people claim. Electric vehicles are "remote emissions" vehicles. They cause additional emissions from the power plants.

What this test really proved was that a small, purpose-built car that is only marginally more practical in everyday use than a motorcycle (actually less practical in this instance since you absolutely cannot drive a car with slicks in the rain) beat cars that, while fast, are also almost infinitely more practical.

ZV

Never thought of it that way. Interesting. But don't like gas refineries and what not also produce pollution? on top of what a car will produce?

Yes, of course they do. They use lots of electricity.

Joking aside, it's true that the overall gaseous emissions cause (directly or indirectly) of an electric car are less than those of a gasoline powered car. On the other hand, the batteries used are typically very highly toxic, and there are often heavy metals in the electronic controllers as well, so in terms of overall environmental impact an electric car is marginally cleaner overall, but far from "pure".

Joking back in effect, one could claim that electric cars create nuclear waste if your local power is nuclear-generated.

ZV

 

[randay]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: randay

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: goku
able to get away with it without sacrificing perfomance or creating a toll on the environment....

Unless you need to drive more than 100 miles in a day, haul even a modicum of luggage, want accident protection, want the ability to drive in the rain and aren't somehow plugging it into a magical outlet that isn't connected to an electricity plant that just makes the pollution somewhere else and not at the car.

Electric cars are not "zero emissions" despite what people claim. Electric vehicles are "remote emissions" vehicles. They cause additional emissions from the power plants.

What this test really proved was that a small, purpose-built car that is only marginally more practical in everyday use than a motorcycle (actually less practical in this instance since you absolutely cannot drive a car with slicks in the rain) beat cars that, while fast, are also almost infinitely more practical.

ZV

Never thought of it that way. Interesting. But don't like gas refineries and what not also produce pollution? on top of what a car will produce?

Yes, of course they do. They use lots of electricity.

Joking aside, it's true that the overall gaseous emissions cause (directly or indirectly) of an electric car are less than those of a gasoline powered car. On the other hand, the batteries used are typically very highly toxic, and there are often heavy metals in the electronic controllers as well, so in terms of overall environmental impact an electric car is marginally cleaner overall, but far from "pure".

Joking back in effect, one could claim that electric cars create nuclear waste if your local power is nuclear-generated.

ZV

so... my toaster really is nuclear powered!

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: randay

Never thought of it that way. Interesting. But don't like gas refineries and what not also produce pollution? on top of what a car will produce?

You never thought of it that way? What planet were you born on? Where do you think the energy cam from? Perpetual motion? Cold fusion? Duke Nukem 3d reactors?

And I believe that I asked you a question earlier. You had the nerve to refute what I said, but you avoided my challenge because you don't dare put yourself on the spot and reveal that you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. Face it, you don't know what you're talking about but you still wanted to mouth off.

When the men talk shop, it's time for you to go home, son.

 

[DukeN]

www.teslamotors.com

'Nuff said.