Can all CPU's of the same revision overclock to approximately the same speed?

[SickBeast]

I know the answer to this, but I need to prove it to an AT member who thinks he knows everything.

Originally posted by: Bar81
all CG revision chips, whether mobile or desktop overclock to the same range

I guess he's saying that all 2800+ A64's can hit 3400+ speeds at stock voltage. :roll:

Anyways, some feedback would be great. This guy needs to be put in his place.

If someone could explain speed binning that would probably be helpful. Also, some information about the differences between a core which is cut from the center of the wafer as opposed to the outer edge would be useful.

 

[SneakyStuff]

I'm gonna have to say no, some chips are better overclockers than others. (Even if they're the same.)

 

[charloscarlies]

I have a CG clawhammer that won't do anything over 2.3 ghz on 1.6 volts....but a Newcastle CG that does near 2.5 ghz on the same voltage. They definitely do not overclock the same.

OH btw....both are 3200's.

 

[Ariste]

Yeah, I've seen way too many reports of sky high overclocks with one chip and then some other person can only get a 100MHz overclock with the same chip/revision. There are too many other variables involved, and a lot of luck. Gonna have to say definitely no.

 

[SickBeast]

So far this thread is telling me exactly what I already knew.

Why is this bar81 guy considered to be knowledgeable about the Athlon 64 Mobiles if he doesn't even realize a fact as simple as this? Most people purchase mobiles because of their superior overclocking prowess, and we have this guy with a sticky thread spreading misinformation? What a joke.

 

[thelanx]

There is a lot of variance, and while there are estimates of general ballpark figures, I agree with those above that there are lots of exceptions in both directions. The guy you are quoting did say same "range", which is somewhat valid, but he did not mention exceptions which are quite common. Also I don't think speed binning is an issue since you are discussing 2800+ cpus exclusively.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: thelanx
I don't think speed binning is an issue since you are discussing 2800+ cpus exclusively.

Well, we're actually discussing CG revision chips. Even if we were to exclusively focus on the 2800+, those chips are binned are they not? Does AMD not bin every single chip they manufacture according to how fast they are capable of running?

 

[thelanx]

True, and if we are discussing all CG revision chips, I would agree that they will most likely not have the same max overclocks. I don't have too much experience with A64's, but I know for example a 2.4C might have better oc ability than a 2.8C p4, but the max overclock of the 2.8c will be higher due to speed binning, in which the 2.8c probably performed better and so was binned for the 2.8c label. I imagine the same would apply to A64 CG revision chips. Of couse there are exceptions due to the variability that was mentioned before, so in some circumstances a 2.4c might be a chip that was excess and binned in the 2.4c bin due to higher demand of 2.4c processors (hypothetically) and may oc just as well as a 2.8c since it normally would qualify for the 2.8c label.

 

[jellysandwichx]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

I guess he's saying that all 2800+ A64's can hit 3400+ speeds at stock voltage. :roll:

He does NOT say that. Read through the whole thread.

-jellysandwich

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: jellysandwichx

Originally posted by: SickBeast

I guess he's saying that all 2800+ A64's can hit 3400+ speeds at stock voltage. :roll:

He does NOT say that. Read through the whole thread.

-jellysandwich

This is verbatim what he said, without the flames (it required heavy editing):

Originally posted by: Bar81
First, the Mobile Athlon 64 DOES NOT overclock any better than desktop chips that are the same revision. However, if you compare older C0 revision desktop chips to CG revision Mobile chips then the Mobile chips will overclock higher. Second, all CG revision chips, whether mobile or desktop overclock to the same range.

Just because two chips are of the same revision it *DOES NOT* mean that they will overclock to the same levels, and they will not necessesarily overclock to the same "range". Some chips are cut from the center of the wafer, others from the outer edge. On top of that, the chips are binned to separate them according to what speed they can reach.

 

[jellysandwichx]

Originally posted by: Bar81
I'm selling the chip b/c my ASRock only gives 1.55v and you need 1.6v+ to really push the chip. I haven't actually tried the MSI, it's just sitting in a box next to me

You're not even close.

-jellysandwich

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: jellysandwichx

Originally posted by: Bar81
I'm selling the chip b/c my ASRock only gives 1.55v and you need 1.6v+ to really push the chip. I haven't actually tried the MSI, it's just sitting in a box next to me

You're not even close.

-jellysandwich

You're not even reading the same thread as me, and on top of that this guy does not understand overclocking or how CPU's are produced.

 

[Avalon]

lol...sounds like you two are having fun.
Yeah, chips of the same revision don't always get as far as others of the same.
When I had a couple mobile barton 2500+ chips, one would only do 2.3ghz, while I got another to do 2.6ghz, which is a pretty sizable difference.
I don't even think mobile A64 chips are worth buying. Not only are they MORE expensive than their desktop counterpart, which I think defeats the purpose, but don't seem to overclock any better than their desktop CG cousin. You also are limited to which motherboard you get now because you've got a mobile. Nice hassle! :thumbsup:

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Avalon
I don't even think mobile A64 chips are worth buying. Not only are they MORE expensive than their desktop counterpart, which I think defeats the purpose, but don't seem to overclock any better than their desktop CG cousin. You also are limited to which motherboard you get now because you've got a mobile. Nice hassle! :thumbsup:

What about these?

Are you saying that all A64 CG revision chips can run at 1.6ghz at 1.2v? I'm guessing that no, they can't. On top of that, typically if a chip can do such a high speed on a lower voltage, it means that it has more overclocking headroom.

I'm not saying that you're incorrect in stating that the mobiles are not worth the price premium and all that; I just don't think making such a broad statement is accurate. It makes no sense that Barton Mobiles could overclock miles above normal Bartons, but the A64 Mobiles are no different from the desktop chips. In order for the chips to be able to run at lower voltages, they are hand-picked superior chips.

 

[VIAN]

I put yes, they should be able to, BUT the person should also keep an open mind that it might not be able to.

What are "binned" chips?

 

[AWhackWhiteBoy]

"Also, some information about the differences between a core which is cut from the center of the wafer as opposed to the outer edge would be useful."

I'd love to know this, also what specifically makes "stepping", why is one core stepping better than the other? refinement in the waffer making? fill my brain!

 

[FullRoast]

Binning is a term for sorting chips/dies to see which ones are faster and can be sold at a higher clock speed.

In some cases the chips/dies cut from the center of the wafer are better (can run faster) than from the edges of the wafer.

Changes are made in the design/layout of the processor over time. When the changes are made, a new stepping level of the processor is identified. The processor is still a P4, A64, whatever, but with modifications over the previous stepping level.

 

[Bar81]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
I know the answer to this, but I need to prove it to an AT member who thinks he knows everything.

Originally posted by: Bar81
all CG revision chips, whether mobile or desktop overclock to the same range

I guess he's saying that all 2800+ A64's can hit 3400+ speeds at stock voltage. :roll:

Anyways, some feedback would be great. This guy needs to be put in his place.

If someone could explain speed binning that would probably be helpful. Also, some information about the differences between a core which is cut from the center of the wafer as opposed to the outer edge would be useful.

Try learning the definition of range. www.dictionary.com you idiot, but then again you've already figured out you're a moron, you're just letting us all know.

I just reread your statement, you're EVEN DUMBER THAN I GAVE YOU CREDIT FOR. How you can get all 2800+ A64s can hit 3400+ speeds at default voltage from my statement is beyond me; your "logic" remains moronic.

 

[Bar81]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
So far this thread is telling me exactly what I already knew.

Why is this bar81 guy considered to be knowledgeable about the Athlon 64 Mobiles if he doesn't even realize a fact as simple as this? Most people purchase mobiles because of their superior overclocking prowess, and we have this guy with a sticky thread spreading misinformation? What a joke.

The only "joke" is your lack of intelligence and the display you put on trying to "display" it for everyone. As I said before, when it comes to mobile A64s *every* moronic statement you make is WRONG; in fact, pretty much EVERYTHING out of your mouth is idiotic so I don't want to short you on that.

 

[Bar81]

As an aside for everyone (including the moron,) the statement as written was explaining that CG revision chips top out in the same range whether they are desktop or mobile such that there's no advantage to getting a mobile if you're looking to max out your overclock. It is a mistake to read it as the moron is trying to imply (although I do give him credit for reading, that's a HUGE step up for him) A NORMAL person, instead of making this stupid useless thread would have asked me through pm what I was saying; then again morons apparently don't.

Of course there are exceptions to overclocking, you could get a dud chip, or more likely there's something wrong with a specific user's setup that's limiting that person's overclock. The statement was also written prior to the introduction of the Desktop 2800+ so that chip wasn't even a consideration. Again, all the moron had to do was be a civilized moron and ask and I would have explained it all to him (very slowly of course) It's unfortunately his own work that holds him out to the community as the moron he is and for that he has no one to blame but himself.

 

[Acanthus]

No, i have had CPUs of the exact same step vary up to 15%

 

[stnicralisk]

Is it me or does Bar81 in every single post use words in quotations and www.dictionary.com.

I love a good troll.

 

[jellysandwichx]

It's you, now step along.

Anyway, if you couldn't figure it out, I was talking about
your stock voltage comment. Bar81 never said anything
about getting exceptional overclocks with stock voltages.

Don't assume ridiculous things like that.

-jellysandwich

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Bar81
A NORMAL person, instead of making this stupid useless thread would have asked me through pm what I was saying

Why on earth would I show you the courtesy of a PM when every time you reply to me you flame me for no reason?

This thread proves that you were 100% incorrect, just face it. 30 people agree with me, and only 5 with you. On top of that just about everything you've posted on the video forum has been completely inaccurate.

I'm honestly surprised you haven't been banned by now, Bar81. I have been a member of these boards since 2000 and have never seen anyone even come close to your level of beligerance, ignorance, and lack of knowledge. With you it's the complete package; most of the time people are either trolls, fanboys, or just simply don't know what they're talking about. You flame people every time you post.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: jellysandwichx
It's you, now step along.

Anyway, if you couldn't figure it out, I was talking about
your stock voltage comment. Bar81 never said anything
about getting exceptional overclocks with stock voltages.

Don't assume ridiculous things like that.

-jellysandwich

Wow, you sure seem to know alot about Bar81. On top of that, you post just like him; you riddled me instead of just straight out making your point.

I get it now. You ARE Bar81. You wanted to come up with a new avatar to try to turn over a new leaf. I guess you were too ashamed of the fact that you were publicly proven to be incorrect, and you couldn't live with the fact that you've flamed 90% of the respected members on these boards.

On top of this, your comment about stock voltage is ridiculous. Nowhere in his post did Bar81/you mention anything about voltage. An overclock at stock voltage is still an overclock. Since he thinks all CG chips overclock to the same levels, they should all be able to run at the same speed at stock voltage as well.